Literal Interpretation of Bible Prophecy: Help or Hindrance?

[GUANO]

Newton was right again fellas!!!

 

[thesunisout]

Since Jesus literally fulfilled the prophecies of His first coming we have a firm foundation to say He will literally fulfill the prophecies of His second coming

 

[GingerBeer]

As you have never read even one of my books, you have zero idea what you are speaking about.

You write books? Have they been published by any of the big publishing houses?

 

[Quasar92]

Since you already confirmed here that Genesis 3:15 is more spiritual than literal, you should take that one out of your list.

That said, there certainly are numerous prophecies within your list that are literal.

And others that are spiritual.

Let me see some of your "spiritual" prophecies you advise me "to take out of my list."


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

“Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the Lord of hosts.
Malachi 3:1

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction.”
Malachi 4:5-6

10 This is he of whom it is written, “‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way before you.’ 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.
Matthew 11:10,14

12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.
Matthew 17:12-13

If any of the bove are not literal events, please tell me what you call them.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

Let me see some of your "spiritual" prophecies you advise me "to take out of my list."


Quasar92

Genesis 3:15; Numbers 24:17; Genesis 49:10; Isaiah 11:1; Psalms 110:1

Leave them all in; they're all inspired. Simply qualify your list as being both literal and spiritual.

 

[Ronald]

Literal Interpretation of Bible Prophecy: Help or Hindrance?



About the time of the End, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation in the midst of much clamor and opposition.
-Sir Isaac Newton

Dr. John Walvoord was asked about a year ago "what do you predict will be the most significant theological issues over the next ten years?" His answer includes the following: "the hermeneutical problem of not interpreting the Bible literally, especially the prophetic areas. The church today is engulfed in the idea that one cannot interpret prophecy literally."1 While millions of evangelicals still believe and practice literal interpretation of the Bible, including prophecy, there is nevertheless, a noticeable trend by some who are "engulfed in the idea that one cannot interpret prophecy literally."

CLAMOR AND OPPOSITION

The last few years have witnessed the rise of a new growth industry within evangelicalism relating to Bible prophecy. There has been an ever- increasing wave of materials warning evangelicals against the literal interpretation of Bible prophecy and perceived implications that could follow from such practice. Increasingly, from outside the church (and some from within), those who believe in the literal interpretation of Bible prophecy are being pictured as a danger and threat to the progress of modern society. In the past, those who took Bible prophecy seriously were often ignored, since it was believed that their views did not impact in any significant way society at large. However, a reassessment by some secularists appears to attach great significance and blame to such beliefs.

The recent assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin has set off a new flurry of criticism in the media of conservative religious beliefs that the Bible gives Israel a divine right to the land. Since many evangelicals share this view, I expect some will attempt to link this ungodly act with a literal belief in Bible prophecy. The last decade has increasingly seen an attempt by some to link a literal interpretation of the Bible to extremism. Some critics have tried to blame such activities as the threats of nuclear war, Islamic terrorism, American cult extremists, and the bombing in Oklahoma City, as all identical in nature and inflamed by a literal interpretation of the Bible. Such false linkage is then presented as proof that beliefs of this kind are a dangerous threat to society and that steps must be taken to control such views and preempt supposed actions that might follow from them.

SECULAR PROPHECY PHOBIA

Since they reject the Bible as a whole, especially the supernatural implication required for fulfillment, secularists have always thought that belief in Bible prophecy was weird, In recent years a number of books and articles have appeared attempting to explain to secularists biblical prophecy beliefs in an attempt to assess the impact of such beliefs on the thinking of society in general. Some of the books include: Apocalypse: On the Psychology of Fundamentalism in America by Charles Strozier; Naming the Antichrist: The History of an American Obsession by Robert Fuller; and the most widely-heralded When Time Shall Be No More: Prophecy Belief in Modern American Culture by Paul Boyer.2

Why, apart from pure academic exercises, would secularists (who believe that life should be lived apart from religious influence) be interested in the prophetic beliefs of biblical literalists? Apparently some secularists believe that one is not properly enlightened if he or she is ignorant of the prophetic beliefs of a large segment of the common people. In this way, Robert Fuller speaks of "my insistence that religion can and should be made the subject of intellectual inquiry."3 Likewise, Paul Boyer contends that "Much evidence (some direct, some inferential) suggests that, despite gradual erosion in the twentieth century, prophetic belief remains deeply rooted in the United States as the century ends."4

The December 19, 1994 issue of U.S. News & World Report ran a cover-story on Bible prophecy. Interestingly,it was run not in the religious section, but in the science and society section, and entitled "Waiting for The Messiah: The new clash over the Bible's millennial prophecies."5 This article reduces belief in biblical prophecy as the fulfillment of a psychological drive to find meaning in life, even though it is said to have great "destructive potential" (p. 71). What is interesting about the article is its focus on a departure by some evangelicals from the literal interpretation of prophecy and a new openness to less literal alternative approaches. The tone of the article seems to be that finally, even some of those crazy literalists are waking up and realizing that Bible prophecy cannot be taken literally in these enlightened and modern times.

By Thomas Ice, PhDl


Quasar92

The demise of the belief in the Bible started a long time ago. The attempt to destroy it failed every time.
Fast forwarding to Darwin and his theory, the Age of Reason, the Industrial Revolution and we see man going off in different directions, more secular in his thinking. Science begins to take the forefront and basis for arguments against the Bible and God. But science was started by Christians for the purpose of understanding God's creation, not to refute the Bible or God's existence.
The TOE had somewhat of an impact. It gave people with doubts about the Bible, a reason not to believe and with many others, they compromised their beliefs. So a segment of Christianity reasoned through this theory and decided that the book of Genesis cannot be taken literally, because the TOE would not fit into to the story of our origins, the story that God told us in a very straight forward, simple way. Compromise, that's what humans do. Half of Christianity settled on this merger of sorts called Theistic Evolution.
This is their assumption: [They reasoned that Genesis could not be taken literally completely, they were left with a book of symbolism, allegories, abstract views. So now, God did not create the earth and universe in 6 literal days, nor did He create finished life forms - no its all different now - they think He just started things up and let evolution finish the job. And He supposedly gave nature a mind to sort out mutations on its own and here we are!]
What a crock!
The danger of not taking Genesis literally leads to doing the same thing to the rest if the Bible. And since they messed with the beginning of the story, why not mess with the end? If the beginning isn't literally true and the end isn't either, what really is our faith in. If course the attempt to destroy or at least distort the story of Jesus has been going on for 2000 years. The secularist will ask you:
DO YOU LITERALLY BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS IF THE WORLD AND THEN CAME BACK TO LIFE THREE DAYS LATER? As for me, YES.
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN ALL THOSE MIRACULOUS STORIES? Yes.
DO YOU REALLY THINK THE END OF THE WORLD IS COMING ... JUDGMENT ...
GODS WRATH ... TO PUT AN END TO SIN AND EVIL AND THEN JESUS WILL REIGN AS KING FOR 1000 YEARS AS WRITTEN IN PROPHECY? YES, THATS EXACTLY WHAT I BELIEVE WORD FOR WORD.
A LITERAL GENESIS TOO? YES

 

[BABerean2]

TO PUT AN END TO SIN AND EVIL AND THEN JESUS WILL REIGN AS KING FOR 1000 YEARS AS WRITTEN IN PROPHECY? YES

There is a conflict in the above.

If there is an end of sin and evil, then His reign will be "forever", based on the scripture below.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[claninja]

If any of the bove are not literal events, please tell me what you call them.


Quasar92

If a literal interpretation of Malachi 3 and 4 is required, literally Elijah, and not John the Baptist, should have prepared the way for Jesus.

But as it is, Jesus states John the Baptist is the Elijah that came.

This prophecy is fulfilled spiritually through John the Baptist

 

[Ronald]

There is a conflict in the above.

If there is an end of sin and evil, then His reign will be "forever", based on the scripture below.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ; and He shall reign [forever and ever]." Translation from aionios, meaning ages and ages, generations, lifetimes, etc. Think of it, the first earth, kingdoms of this world will not last forever. "All former things will pass away." The first earth, which we currently live in will be completely destroyed and replaced by a New Earth.

So, technically Jesus will reign for 1000 years on His throne, physically, over the Present Earth that will be transformed and rid of sin and evil UNTIL TOWARDS THE END OF THE 1000 YEARS SATAN IS ONCE AGAIN RELEASED TO TEMPT THAT GENERATION. His reign on this earth after the Great Tribulation period will be for 1000 years as the Bible states:
"He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while." Rev. 20:2, 3
vs 7. Satan is released ...
vs. 8 ... to deceive the nations and to gather them to do battle
vs. 9 God destroys them with fire
vs. 10 The Devil is cast into the Lake of Fire
vs. 11 -13 Great White Throne Judgment, Hades gives up the dead, books are opened ...
vs. 14 Death and Hades cast into the Lake of Fire, the second death

Chapter 21: NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH

So, sin and evil is removed temporarily for 1000 years, then destroyed permanently along with Satan and His demonic horde, the damned, death and hades and the former earth.

 

[BABerean2]

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ; and He shall reign [forever and ever]." Translation from aionios, meaning ages and ages, generations, lifetimes, etc. Think of it, the first earth, kingdoms of this world will not last forever. "All former things will pass away." The first earth, which we currently live in will be completely destroyed and replaced by a New Earth.

So, technically Jesus will reign for 1000 years on His throne, physically, over the Present Earth that will be transformed and rid of sin and evil UNTIL TOWARDS THE END OF THE 1000 YEARS SATAN IS ONCE AGAIN RELEASED TO TEMPT THAT GENERATION. His reign on this earth after the Great Tribulation period will be for 1000 years as the Bible states:
"He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while." Rev. 20:2, 3
vs 7. Satan is released ...
vs. 8 ... to deceive the nations and to gather them to do battle
vs. 9 God destroys them with fire
vs. 10 The Devil is cast into the Lake of Fire
vs. 11 -13 Great White Throne Judgment, Hades gives up the dead, books are opened ...
vs. 14 Death and Hades cast into the Lake of Fire, the second death

Chapter 21: NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH

So, sin and evil is removed temporarily for 1000 years, then destroyed permanently along with Satan and His demonic horde, the damned, death and hades and the former earth.

When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?

Based on 2 Thessalonians chapter 1, Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.

We find this same fire at the judgment of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25:31-46.

We find this fire in the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew chapter 13.

Right after the 7th trumpet, we find "the time of the judgment of the dead" with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18.

The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

If the fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20, it reveals that the 1,000 years is symbolic of the "Church Age", and the first resurrection in the chapter is found in John 5:24.


1 Corinthians 15:50, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Timothy 4:1, Christ judges both the living and the dead at His return.


2 Peter 3:10-13, Peter was looking for the current earth to be burned up on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief". This passage is also connected to the event in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4:13-18 and 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, and Revelation 16:15-16.

.

 

[Ronald]

Literally speaking,
Jesus fulfilled some 300 prophecies and will return to fulfill hundreds more AND set up His Millennial Kingdom after He rids the planet of sin and evil for a thousand years. He hasn't returned in Judgment. Jerusalem was a small town, small change, destroyed in 70 AD but was in no way the Judgment intended for the entire world. The judgment against Jerusalem was from one nation, not many. Satan was defeated on the Cross, so Christians can feel secure about that, but he was not thrown into the Abyss and locked up- Yet.
There are so many prophecies that have not yet been fulfilled. God did not intend for mankind to suffer in a sinful world for eons without end. He had a perfect plan and the plan for this world is finite, the plan for His own, infinite. Amillennialists think that Christianity will somehow spread to convert the entire planet? How's that going?
Jesus left us with signs. One of the clear signs that signaled the last generation I do believe is Israel becoming a nation in 1948. This generation (70 years or so according to Psalm 90:10), is the last.
The key verses leading up to the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24 explains in detail when to expect it. In there is the fall of Jerusalem, but also the Second Coming and the End of the Age. Wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilence, nation arising against nation, false Christs appearing, etc. Did those things happen between 67-70 AD? In this past 70 years, we have seen these things escalate. We've certainly seen guys like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and that Mormon who had 78 wives as young as 12 years old. And look at the Middle East, it's been on fire since 2011. Many Christians in Muslim countries would claim they are going through a Great Tribulation now, with their heads being chopped off, wives raped and murdered and millions of refugees fleeing. Much of history surrounds Jerusalem though. Keep your eyes on what's going on over there and you will see prophecies unfolding.
This past year, the announcement by Trump to make Jerusalem the capital stirred up things a bit. The Bible says that Jerusalem will be a heavy stone, a stumbling block for many nations.
"And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples, all who would heave it away will surely be cut to pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it." Zech.12:3 Did that happen already? It's about to.
"But the transgressors and sinners will be crushed together, And those who forsake the LORD will come to an end." Isaiah 1:28 Did that happen? No, not yet!
"Neither their silver nor their gold
Will be able to deliver them
On the day of the LORD'S wrath;
And all the earth will be devoured
In the fire of His jealousy,
For He will make a complete end,
Indeed a terrifying one,
Of all the inhabitants of the earth." Zeph. 1:18
Was that the fall of Jerusalem? I don't think so. There are literally hundreds of verses that have not been fulfilled yet.

Matthew 24:14 is the key to when this Great Tribulation will begin:
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in ALL THE WORLD as a witness to ALL the nations, AND THEN THE END WILL COME."
Guess what folks, we are about at that point in history. Scholars would agree that within the last few years we have spread the gospel to the entire world, to every nation. Of course on an individual basis, not everyone has heard. A baby is born every 8 seconds and certainly children are brought up under a different cloth then ours so, it's not possible for a moment in time to exist that everyone on the planet will hear the gospel, but the verse doesn't require that does it. The gospel has been preached to ALL the World and witnesses went out to ALL NATIONS. This means, we are close!
In 70AD, the gospel was just getting off the ground, just getting started. Btw, Revelation wasn't even written until about 95 AD - so none of that had to do with the destruction of Jerusalem. I can present a strong argument for that date. The Preterists must cling unto an earlier date of Revelation, otherwise their view doesn't work. They must allegorize much of prophecy. Their abstract views of symbolism are out there. The point is, Jesus fulfilled prophecies literally, so why wouldn't we think that He would fulfill all of them literally? Get ready.

 

[Ronald]

When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?

About 8 O'clock ...
Just messin, in verse 9? This after the Millennial Kingdom. This does not negate that fire and judgment does not come before the Millennial Kingdom during what is referred to as the Great Tribulation period. Jesus returns and judges many, that's the first death, then there is the 1000 year period, then judgment comes again, that's the second death. I must make a side note on the Millennial Kingdom. Christians, prior to the GT, who have received the mark of God are transformed and given new eternal bodies.
So who populates the earth after everyone else is destroyed? The Jews who have not taken the mark of the beast and who now have had their veils removed when they see Jesus for who He really is. They are sealed and protected during thes time but have not received a new resurrected body. The 144k virgins will repopulate the planet along with an equal amount of females. (I'm not certain about this, but it makes sense to me.) These newborns during the Millennial Kingdom will live and grow, but generations later, will rebel (since they are not born again Christians like their parents) so once again must be tested by Satan who will be released.

Based on 2 Thessalonians chapter 1, Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.

We find this same fire at the judgment of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25:31-46.

Yes, that does not negate the fire that comes after the Millennial Kingdom that also destroys the heavens and the old earth as well. (see 2 Pet. 3:10)

We find this fire in the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew chapter 13.

Right after the 7th trumpet, we find "the time of the judgment of the dead" with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18.

Not the same judgment. Again there is the first death and then the second death. There is the first resurrection and the second resurrection.

The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

I know, I've been saying that for a long time.

If the fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20, it reveals that the 1,000 years is symbolic of the "Church Age", and the first resurrection in the chapter is found in John 5:24.

Nope.

Right after the 7th trumpet, we find "the time of the judgment of the dead" with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18.

Correct, the first death, first judgment, first resurrection (Rev.20:5, 6) Did you forget those verses?

1 Corinthians 15:50, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

And?

2 Timothy 4:1, Christ judges both the living and the dead at His return.

True, the first time and again after the Millennial Kingdom.

2 Peter 3:10-13, Peter was looking for the current earth to be burned up on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief". This passage is also connected to the event in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4:13-18 and 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, and Revelation 16:15-16.

2 Pet. 3:10 is post Millennial Kingdom destruction, it does not pertain to the Great Tribulation period. This is not connected to 1 Thes. 4:13-18. If that were true, then there would not be a first resurrection, a Millennial Kingdom, a period of 1000 years when Satan is locked up, then released and might as well throw in most of Revelation since, all of the earth is not destroyed during the Great Tribulation period. Much is destroyed but remnants remain, clean up, transformation, etc.

 

[BABerean2]

2 Pet. 3:10 is post Millennial Kingdom destruction, it does not pertain to the Great Tribulation period. This is not connected to 1 Thes. 4:13-18. If that were true, then there would not be a first resurrection, a Millennial Kingdom, a period of 1000 years when Satan is locked up, then released and might as well throw in most of Revelation since, all of the earth is not destroyed during the Great Tribulation period. Much is destroyed but remnants remain, clean up, transformation, etc.

In other words the text of 2 Peter 3:10-13 cannot mean what it says, because it destroys the pre-mill doctrine...

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

.

 

[PesachPup]

There is no problem with this verse:
*[[Rev 11:15]] KJV* And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The KINGDOMS of this WORLD are become the kingdoms of OUR LORD, AND of his CHRIST; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Our LORD AND his Christ. Two entities.
But it says "HE" shall reign forever. Not they. Who sits at the FATHERS right hand. Which means the FATHER is number one prior to Rev 11:15 BEFORE they "are become", meaning a demarcation point. Who was reigning before this time? God the Father. Who is going to be reigning after the kingdom of God on earth ends? God the Father!
*[[1Co 15:24]] KJV* Then cometh the end, when he shall have DELIVERED up the kingdom TO GOD, EVEN THE FATHER; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
*[[Rev 1:6]] KJV* And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
*[[Rev 22:5]] KJV* And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev. 11:15 doesn't say that the kingdom of God upon this earth is forever, but that he shall reign forever and ever. God never surrenders the supreme rulership of this world to Christ, but shares the rulership of the kingdom of God on earth, for the sake of defeating the enemies of God [the Father], the last of which is death. The kingdom of God on earth is but a subset of the realm over which God the Father reigns!
Blessings
The PuP

 

[parousia70]

So who populates the earth after everyone else is destroyed? The Jews who have not taken the mark of the beast and who now have had their veils removed when they see Jesus for who He really is.

Which Jews are these?
Christ Rejecting genetic Sons of Abraham?
Christ Rejecting Gentile Coverts to Judiasm?
Both?
How one will be able to tell the difference remains a mystery....

They are sealed and protected during thes time but have not received a new resurrected body. The 144k virgins will repopulate the planet along with an equal amount of females. (I'm not certain about this, but it makes sense to me.) These newborns during the Millennial Kingdom will live and grow, but generations later, will rebel (since they are not born again Christians like their parents) so once again must be tested by Satan who will be released.

So wait, mortal human beings born during the millennium, living under the iron rod reign of Christ, will not have the opportunity to choose to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior and thus become "Christians"?

Where is this taught?

 

[Ronald]

In other words the text of 2 Peter 3:10-13 cannot mean what it says, because it destroys the pre-mill doctrine...

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

.

If the book of Revelation was never written and we had to rely on the rest of scripture to figure out how its going to happen, I would lean towards one judgment, one resurrection, a final episode when the earth gets DESTROYED and is replaced. Your have to scrap Revelation or like Preterists do, believe it to be symbolic and happened or most of it happened.
The events in Revelation describe 1/3 of the planet on fire, 1/3 of the fish and boats in the sea dead and destroyed, demonic locusts torturing people for 5 months, , earthquakes, possible super volcanic eruptions and asteroids, possible nuclear war, pestilence, death by wild animals and all that prior to the whole planet being destroyed. What's the point? And why mention 1000 year reign of Jesus on the throne of David, during which time there is peace, no sin, no evil ( because Satan is locked up) and lifetime is extended as it was in the Garden, lions and wolves and lambs are playing in the fields with children.
There would be no point of REVELATION 6-20 because it just doesn't look like anything remotely relates to it in history.
Two resurrections occur. The first death and the second death, why? If there is one judgment, one final judgment, then there should be only one resurrection and one death.
Well,,don't tell this view to Satan, You might confuse him. You have him being throne in the Lake if Fire, depriving him if a 3 1/2 year reign on too if the world and then some jail time, when he is expecting to be locked up for a 1000 years. Watch out, you are also depriving him of tempting the world a second time

 

[parousia70]

Your have to scrap Revelation or like Preterists do, believe it to be symbolic and happened or most of it happened.
The events in Revelation describe 1/3 of the planet on fire, 1/3 of the fish and boats in the sea dead and destroyed, demonic locusts torturing people for 5 months, , earthquakes, possible super volcanic eruptions and asteroids, possible nuclear war, pestilence, death by wild animals and all that prior to the whole planet being destroyed. What's the point?

Give us your assessment of this passage please:
After David defeated Saul (which I hope we can agree is already fulfilled and not future to us) He described that Battle this way: (2 Samuel 22:8-16)

8“Then the earth shook and trembled;
The foundations of heaven quaked and were shaken,
Because He was angry.
9 Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;
Coals were kindled by it.
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down
With darkness under His feet.
11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew;
And He was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 He made darkness canopies around Him,
Dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
13 From the brightness before Him
Coals of fire were kindled.

14 “The Lord thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice.
15 He sent out arrows and scattered them;
Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them.
16 Then the channels of the sea were seen,
The foundations of the world were uncovered,
At the rebuke of the Lord,
At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

Please demonstrate for us your proof that these things LITERALLY happened.

Did God come down to earth at that time, visibly seen upon a cherub, riding a cloud, shooting actual arrows at Saul's armies, bowing and shaking the ENTIRE the heavens and trembling and laying the foundation of the ENTIRE earth bare, as He kindled fire with the breath of His literal nostrils?

And why mention 1000 year reign of Jesus on the throne of David, during which time there is peace, no sin, no evil ( because Satan is locked up)

Since scripture teaches that Human Beings are fully capable of the gravest of Sin and Evil wholly absent of any Satanic Influence, where do your get the notion that Humans will be incapable of sinning while Satan is bound?

 

[BABerean2]

If the book of Revelation was never written and we had to rely on the rest of scripture to figure out how its going to happen, I would lean towards one judgment, one resurrection, a final episode when the earth gets DESTROYED and is replaced. Your have to scrap Revelation or like Preterists do, believe it to be symbolic and happened or most of it happened.
The events in Revelation describe 1/3 of the planet on fire, 1/3 of the fish and boats in the sea dead and destroyed, demonic locusts torturing people for 5 months, , earthquakes, possible super volcanic eruptions and asteroids, possible nuclear war, pestilence, death by wild animals and all that prior to the whole planet being destroyed. What's the point? And why mention 1000 year reign of Jesus on the throne of David, during which time there is peace, no sin, no evil ( because Satan is locked up) and lifetime is extended as it was in the Garden, lions and wolves and lambs are playing in the fields with children.
There would be no point of REVELATION 6-20 because it just doesn't look like anything remotely relates to it in history.
Two resurrections occur. The first death and the second death, why? If there is one judgment, one final judgment, then there should be only one resurrection and one death.
Well,,don't tell this view to Satan, You might confuse him. You have him being throne in the Lake if Fire, depriving him if a 3 1/2 year reign on too if the world and then some jail time, when he is expecting to be locked up for a 1000 years. Watch out, you are also depriving him of tempting the world a second time

You started out right and then you started mixing in the teachings of men.

Is Jesus on David's throne now based on what Peter said in Acts chapter 2?

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. (What is Christ sitting on now?)
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
(He is both Ruler and Messiah on the Day of Pentecost.)


At the beginning of Revelation chapter 20 we find someone seated on thrones.
Based on John 5:27-30, Christ is the judge.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Your description of the removal of the curse with wolves and lambs and children is found in the New Heavens and the New Earth in Isaiah chapter 65, after this earth is remembered no more.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.


If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation chapter 11, where is he now?

.

 

[Ronald]

Which Jews are these?
Christ Rejecting genetic Sons of Abraham?
Christ Rejecting Gentile Coverts to Judiasm?
Both?
How one will be able to tell the difference remains a mystery....



So wait, mortal human beings born during the millennium, living under the iron rod reign of Christ, will not have the opportunity to choose to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior and thus become "Christians"?

Where is this taught?

1. According to Romans 11, Jews have been spiritually blinded by God to this day. During the end times, God will save a remnant 1/3 if the current Jewish population. Jews number some 14 million or so. Every eye will see Jesus. When they do, this remnant will realize once and for all who their Messiah is, the Savior they have been waiting for. They will mourn, nut God will protect them while He puts them through the GT. They will have to endure this time while the nations of the world war against them. Those nations will ultimately be destroyed by Jesus.
2. Yes they will be brought up in the Lord, taught by their parents, but as time goes on some lose their way as history has shown us, even with the Lord present. 4+ million could multiply to 4 billion in 1000 years. I am confident, many will turn from God and go their own way once Satan is set free to tempt them awhile. Again, I am not sure, there is little about this Millennial Kingdom, only that a child would be 100 years old and human lifespan would be extended. But the 144k virgins would be good candidates to repopulate the earth.