Biblical, Enclosed Flat Earth and Firmament

Do you think enclosed flat earth is possible from scripture, or think it's IMPOSSIBLE?

  • Possible

  • IMPOSSIBLE


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ViaCrucis

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f22efee3ad2856fc0e816cda87e205f3.jpg

It's called inertia. You and your family are driving down the freeway at 70mph and your kid has a ball, throws the ball up into the air in the car, the ball doesn't fly backward at 70mph, it goes up and comes back down. Because the ball is moving forward 70mph with the car.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Netgear

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It's called inertia. You and your family are driving down the freeway at 70mph and your kid has a ball, throws the ball up into the air in the car, the ball doesn't fly backward at 70mph, it goes up and comes back down. Because the ball is moving forward 70mph with the car.

-CryptoLutheran

I love the prayer in your sig.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The flat earth model as found in the Bible is not man's point of view.
Perhaps it is God's point of view?

God did a poor job then, since He made the earth an oblate spheroid orbiting a main sequence yellow dwarf star.

But I think God is smart enough to know what He did and didn't make.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Halbhh

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heh heh....

Well, fortunately it turns out that understanding and knowledge are not the basis for salvation, so it won't just be a bunch of good at math people, etc., but will be more wonderfully rich and joyful than only having one kind there.
 
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JacksBratt

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May I pipe in?

I once was challenged, by an atheist, who by the way was extremely knowledgeable about biblical scripture.....They challenged me to prove that the earth was a globe...using the bible.

They were trying to prove to me that the bible was full of errors and not worthy of the high respect for which I held it. They stated that the Bible says that the earth is flat and then further challenged me to the question " do you really believe the bible"?

When I cross referenced their work.... I could not deny that this is what the bible describes.

Now, many will stretch and bend and squash scripture, in order to make it other wise. But, I must conclude that the Bible describes a flat, enclosed, immovable, still plane, far more easily than it does a spinning, orbiting, ball that is rocketing through space as it follows the sun.

It really makes someone wonder.

To me, it matters little, if it is flat or a ball. However, even though I am not a FE'er, I have read enough things about it to know that people who were not believers of God have become so when they investigated and came to the belief in the FE. Odd eh?

So, 500 years ago everyone "knew" the earth was flat and had to be convinced it was a ball.
Now, 500 years later, the revers is happening.

Seems, however, that this time it is the laymen, with technology that is better than that of the scientists 500 years ago, are seeing and doing some things that do not add up to what we are told.

So, I may not believe that the earth is flat but I have studied enough of the information to determine that something is not right with the globe model.

Should we not search for the truth?
 
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Halbhh

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So, 500 years ago everyone "knew" the earth was flat and had to be convinced it was a ball.
You should check on that. Even the ancient greeks knew the Earth was round already I read once. Lemme look it up....

Ok, here:

The earliest reliably documented mention of the spherical Earth concept dates from around the 6th century BC when it appeared in ancient Greek philosophy[1][2]but remained a matter of speculation until the 3rd century BC, when Hellenistic astronomy established the spherical shape of the Earth as a physical given.
Spherical Earth - Wikipedia


They also cleverly figured out how to measure the distance to the sun!

.
 
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PeterDona

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I live in Denmark, and up here we are seeing the summer with very long days and the winter with very short days. Such a thing is nicely explained by the globe-rotating-around-the-sun model, but is difficult to account for in a flat earth model.
I was intrigued with the flat-earth model for some time, maybe just scientific interest to see what arguments could be put on the table, but honestly I think that the case for a flat earth is too weak.
We also have a lot of weather up here, and the weather systems on the earth are nicely explained by the globe model.

There is a theory out there that the milky way is at the center of the universe. But I am not sure how solid that is
Our galaxy is the centre of the universe, ‘quantized’ redshifts show - creation.com
 
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Halbhh

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I live in Denmark, and up here we are seeing the summer with very long days and the winter with very short days. Such a thing is nicely explained by the globe-rotating-around-the-sun model, but is difficult to account for in a flat earth model.
I was intrigued with the flat-earth model for some time, maybe just scientific interest to see what arguments could be put on the table, but honestly I think that the case for a flat earth is too weak.
We also have a lot of weather up here, and the weather systems on the earth are nicely explained by the globe model.

There is a theory out there that the milky way is at the center of the universe. But I am not sure how solid that is
Our galaxy is the centre of the universe, ‘quantized’ redshifts show - creation.com

It's basic in astrophysics to think that everywhere is sorta the 'center' -- because the Universe expanded from a smaller size and is expanding, we see redshifts in all directions linearly proportional to distance. The analogy that helps show why is imagine raisins in an expanding cake. From the point of view of any raisin, all other raisins are receeding at speed proportional to their distance away.
 
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The Times

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I am an Engineer and the evidence that needs to be used to prove that the earth is in fact spinning on an axis and is not flat, is by the measured directional electromagnetic pattern that is exhibited due to the spin and the pattern it makes, as shown below.....

earths-magnetic-poles-could-reverse-within-our-lifetime-how-would-we-be-affected.jpg



images.jpeg
images (1).jpeg


A device called the
GPS Compass Magnetometer GCM-360
Can measure the directional radiation pattern, with amplitude.

Link........

GPS Compass Magnetometer | Triaxial Fluxgate Magnetometer & Accelerometer - Watson Industries, Inc.
 
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Hieronymus

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God did a poor job then, since He made the earth an oblate spheroid orbiting a main sequence yellow dwarf star.

But I think God is smart enough to know what He did and didn't make.

-CryptoLutheran
What i'm trying to say is that God most probably has a different reality than we on earth do.
So the flat domed model from the Bible may be his perception, translated into language comprehensible for humans at that time.
But what do i know...
Scripture tells us to test everything, and the earth in our common reality tests as a spinning spheroid as a part of a solar system, surrounded by celestial bodies.
So be it.
 
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Halbhh

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Also the fact the sun rises and sets at different points on the horizon as the seasons progress, in keeping with a rotating sphere on an axis offset away from (not equal to) 90 degrees perpendicular to the plane of it's orbit about the sun. Also the seasons themselves, more strong as you go further north, weaker as you go towards the equator.
 
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ViaCrucis

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What i'm trying to say is that God most probably has a different reality than we on earth do.
So the flat domed model from the Bible may be his perception, translated into language comprehensible for humans at that time.
But what do i know...
Scripture tells us to test everything, and the earth in our common reality tests as a spinning spheroid as a part of a solar system, surrounded by celestial bodies.
So be it.

Alternative hypothesis: The biblical writers wrote from the perspective they had, based on the limited knowledge they had; and the point of the inspired texts isn't to give us cosmological lessons, but instead to speak of matters that mattered to them: their place in the world as the people of God, and God's work in history to bring about His promises and redemption to the world.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Hieronymus

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Alternative hypothesis: The biblical writers wrote from the perspective they had, based on the limited knowledge they had; and the point of the inspired texts isn't to give us cosmological lessons, but instead to speak of matters that mattered to them: their place in the world as the people of God, and God's work in history to bring about His promises and redemption to the world.

-CryptoLutheran
Could be, but i thought it was revealed as such.
Not sure though, sorry.
 
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patrick jane

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I have been a Christian for almost 75 years and a scientist for about 50 years and I have no trouble reconciling my faith and my understanding of science.

If we examine our universe there are a number of observations that must be consistently explained:

1. tidal effects on earth


2. moon's near side "locked' to earth

3. phases of the moon

4. retardation of the moon's 'rising'

5. seasons of the earth

6. seasonal 24 hour days and nights in the arctic and antarctic

7. coreolis effects on earth

8. Foucault's pendulum

9. precession of the earth's axis

10. apparent daily rotation of the "fixed stars" about the pole star

11. this rotation being in opposite directions at the two poles

12. motion of the "wandering stars" (planets) including retrograde motion

13. earth-moon centre of gravity orbits

14. eclipses of the sun, moon and planets

15. northern and southern lights

16. meteors, asteroids and comets

17. moons and/or rings around other planets

18. there are certainly other effects that I have missed

There is only one self consistent model that explains all of these observations and that is the present cosmology of our solar system. This does not explain why these objects behave as they do, it only provides a very refined model that accounts for all the observed effects.

Now add into this the experimentally verified non-relativistic laws of motion and of gravity, known as Newtonian or classical mechanics, and we now have the why that explains the model in a near perfect manner. It is so successful that it has enabled us to send people into earth and moon orbits, to the moon itself and return to earth. We have been able to navigate probes to all the planets and beyond. People have stood on our moon and observed our planet rotating in front of them in real time. Any other cosmology finds it necessary to suspend known laws of science, hypothesize supernatural intervention and invoke a conspiracy theory extending over centuries involving tens of millions of people a great many of whom are Christian.

In Old Testament times it is certainly true that they regarded the earth as flat in a three tiered universe --- flat with a sky-dome (the firmament) overhead. Just like the rapture theory and the trinity theory, the flat earth worldview is nowhere stated explicitly but it is alluded to in many places. There are also many old testament and even a few new testament stories that are only to be understood in a flat earth context. Generally this flat earth was regarded as circular but we are in places told that it has four corners and is supported by pillars and that there are storehouses for the snow and hail. Of course this seems very primitive to us today but we must remember that these scriptures come out of a far less sophisticated culture. A culture that was deeply suspicious of anything Gentile. It may well be that some of the educated elite were aware of the Greek notion of a spherical world but with an illiteracy rate of about 90% the common people certainly were not. The scriptures were most likely written with the naivety of the common people in mind and used language that would not stretch their credulity too far.

In New Testament times, the young Christian church had a similar suspicion of paganism. Over a period of several centuries it systematically destroyed all things pagan. Temples, shrines, academies, libraries and universities were pulled down and burned. Their priests, teachers and professors were tortured and executed often in front of bloodthirsty Christian mobs. They destroyed not just spiritual works but any book even the slightest bit tainted by paganism even if it was on astronomy, medicine, engineering, technology, mathematics, geography, history or architecture. This massive loss of the underpinnings of civilization contributed in part to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire and the subsequent thousand years of the Dark Ages. In AD 380 after a yet another wave of persecution, the 95 year-old hierophant Nestorius, ended the Eleusinian Mysteries and announced the predominance of mental darkness over the human race. How very ironic and prophetic!

It is little wonder then that the flat earth notion persisted so long and that the bible was used to support it. After all the flat earth was the biblical worldview. Should it concern us that the bible supported this notion? Not at all! We do not need to rush to its defense and use weasel words to somehow prove to ourselves that the bible authors had the same worldview that we do. We must realize that these authors lived in a historical context and that the language and ideas that they used fit that context as well.
All explained on flat earth. There's nothing that happens on a ball that can't happen on flat earth. True story.
 
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patrick jane

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The earth was always round....

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: - Isaiah 40:22

He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. - Job 26:7
Good effort, I'll explain later that entire scripture works with flat earth. One possible interpretation is He doesn't hang the earth, just like He said. He doesn't hang it, see how many scriptures say fixed, established and immovable. I'm on my phone now but I'll be back on soon with scriptures and interpretations.
 
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patrick jane

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Clearly, the Bible does not teach that the earth is flat. It was Bible skeptics who introduced this false claim in the 19th century. It is a shame that professed Bible-believers recently have embraced this false argument and have gone on to promote the flat earth. When combined with its many scientific and observational problems, the flat-earth theory is disproven.

Quoted from this very good read:

Does the Bible Teach that the Earth is Flat?
Nope, hardly . The World knew it was flat until Erastoyhenes discovered all by himself with a stick and some shadows 2300 years ago. He was wrong and we've recently changed the maths, AGAIN. Until Copernicus 500 years ago, everybody thought the earth was flat . They were predicting eclipses etc. Thousands of years ago too. You have proven nothing.
 
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ViaCrucis

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All explained on flat earth. There's nothing that happens on a ball that can't happen on flat earth. True story.

Alright.
It is approximately 7,058 miles from Santiago, Chile to Sydney Australia.
It is approximately 6,836 miles from Beijing, China to New York, USA.

Here's a map of the flat earth as the Flat Earth Society believes:
Flat_earth.jpg


See the problem?

Here, I'll help you.
Flat_earth_jpg_copy.png


-CryptoLutheran
 
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Gideons300

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Good effort, I'll explain later that entire scripture works with flat earth. One possible interpretation is He doesn't hang the earth, just like He said. He doesn't hang it, see how many scriptures say fixed, established and immovable. I'm on my phone now but I'll be back on soon with scriptures and interpretations.
Can you explain how you can see a ship mast appear on the horizon, then the deck, and then the hull? If the earth was flat, that would be impossible. If this were just a ‘bump’ in the ocean, all the water would flow down to the horizon, the lowest part of the bump. At 30,000 ft. You can see the curvature of the earth with your eyes.

The church is divided into warring factions, and the world wants nothing we have to offer. we are the personification of Laodecia, and this is what men get passionate about? What happened to wanting to walk as an overcomer and lead men to the one who promises to set us free indeed?
May God help us.

Gideon
 
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