Mid -Acts Dispensational Doctrine

[patrick jane]

Verse List: The Twelve Did Not Preach the Cross
It is evident from 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that the gospel of our salvation includes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus as payment for our sins. This simple truth is the cornerstone of Christianity. Yet no where within Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John did the Twelve Apostles understand the preaching of the cross. Below are the verses that prove the Twelve were ignorant of the preaching of the cross for salvation.
DOWNLOAD THIS VERSE LIST: PDF

• 
  Ignorant of Jesus’ Death, burial, and resurrection
  
  
• 1. Matthew 16:21-22 – Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.
• 2. Mark 8:31-32 – Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.
• 3. Mark 9:31-32 – After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples “understood not and were afraid to ask him”
• 4. Luke 9:44-45 – “But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.”
• 5. Luke 18:31-34 – “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”
• 6. John 2:21-22 – They did not understand the resurrection until after it happened.
  Disbelief in the Resurrection
  
• 7. Mark 16:5-14 – The ladies were afraid when they found the tomb empty. The disciples did not believe after two witnesses testified of the resurrection.
• 8. Luke 24:1-4 – The ladies were perplexed about what had happened to Jesus.
• 9. Luke 24:8-12 – The stories of Jesus’ “disappearance” were idle tales. Peter wondered what happened.
• 10. John 20:2 – Mary Magdalene thought someone had stolen Jesus after he had resurrected.
• 11. John 20:7-9 – The disciples after seeing the empty tomb believed Mary that someone had stolen Jesus. They did not know about the resurrection yet.
  Did not understand the cross for salvation
  
• 12. John 20:21-23 – Even after the resurrection, the disciples did not understand what it accomplished. Here they are given the authority to remit sins.
• 13. Acts 3:14-15 – The crucifixion was presented as a murder indictment to Israel at Pentecost. The resurrection as a warning that he would return to seek vengeance.
• 14. Acts 5:28 – Instead of the blood being payment for sins it was presented as the evidence of guilty murderers.
• 15. Acts 7:52 – Stephen accuses the rulers of betrayal and murder of the Just One.
• 16. Acts 10:39 – According to Paul’s gospel Christ died willingly in the place of sinners. According to Peter he died because he was slain by certain Jews. Could it be that Peter does not yet understand the mystery of the cross?

Conclusions:
This list does not prove that the Twelve were disobedient to the gospel that was presented to them. Contrarily, they were some of the first believers in the gospel of the kingdom. They were among the faithful remnant of Israel who trusted that Jesus was the Son of God and promised Messiah.


However, these verses show that the gospel they knew and trusted was not the preaching of the cross that Paul taught. Whereas they knew Jesus Christ as Messiah to Israel, Paul would later teach Jesus Christ on the cross as payment for sins to Gentiles.

The preaching of the cross was offered for salvation first through the Apostle Paul as the Lord revealed the meaning of the death, burial, and resurrection. The Twelve apostles were ignorant of this message.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Many preachers I listen to agree with what you say. I am still learning about this subject, but it does appear that for a certain time period two gospels existed——The Kingdom Gospel for the Jews and Pauls Gospel of Grace for the Gentiles.The former was eventually supplanted by the latter and now in this age of Grace,Paul’s Gospel is the only one relevant to entering the Body of Christ. Let me emphasize.....I am a neophyte in these matters.

Btw.....excellent ,informational post

 

[patrick jane]

Many preachers I listen to agree with what you say. I am still learning about this subject, but it does appear that for a certain time period two gospels existed——The Kingdom Gospel for the Jews and Pauls Gospel of Grace for the Gentiles.The former was eventually supplanted by the latter and now in this age of Grace,Paul’s Gospel is the only one relevant to entering the Body of Christ. Let me emphasize.....I am a neophyte in these matters.

Btw.....excellent ,informational post

What is a neophyte? You're 100% right so far.

 

[Revived]

Good post (and list), Patrick. I'm continually disheartened that a majority of Christendom not merely fails to see Paul's Mystery and the Gospel of Grace (because I didn't see it for many years), but absolutely and invariably reject the crystal clear Scripture passages when presented because of stubbornness, laziness, tradition, denomination, etc.

Then again, we are told this would be the case. Some of Peter's last words, I believe, are apropos...

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

 

[patrick jane]

Good post (and list), Patrick. I'm continually disheartened that a majority of Christendom not merely fails to see Paul's Mystery and the Gospel of Grace (because I didn't see it for many years), but absolutely and invariably reject the crystal clear Scripture passages when presented because of stubbornness, laziness, tradition, denomination, etc.

Then again, we are told this would be the case. Some of Peter's last words, I believe, are apropos...

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Indeed, and I was baptized catholic and went to catholic school until 4th grade. Then I lived a sinful lost life for 30 years before I picked up a Bible again. I would read the gospels but something was missing. I felt. I read Acts in the KJV and completely understood and started to see the differences. Then by the time I read Romans through Philemon, Paul's epistles, I understood those also. Right about that time I joined TOL and they have some great dispensational teachers there. I came back here because of renewed desire to share what I've learned.

I planned to mostly post from a ministry I found at that same time called Grace Ambassadors. We are ambassadors for Christ and stewards. We're also saints. True story. I certainly don't mind replies and input with discussion and debate. I'm persuaded as Paul is and confident in my doctrine. I won't be moved from the gospel he preached. Christ crucified, the DBR and revelation of the mystery; the gospel of grace, the gospel of our salvation. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - I'll be back on tomorrow and for a few hours more tonight.

1 Corinthians 1:23 KJV - But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness.

1 Corinthians 2:2 KJV - For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Ephesians 3:6-8 KJV -
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

 

[DeaconDean]

In seminary, I was first introduced to the notion that the Gospels should have been included along with the Old Testament.

The "New Testament" did not start until after the crucifixion.

And ask yourselves, what are the Gospels?

Of course it means the "good news", but the "good news" did not spread until after the ascension.

Peter, with all due respect, was not the brightest bulb in the pack. Tradition holds that Peters first epistle wasn't written until perhaps 80-110 1 Peter.

And it took a very long time for Peter to understand what he said in 1 Pet 1:20.

"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world," -1 Pet. 1:20 (KJV)

The preaching of the cross was offered for salvation first through the Apostle Paul as the Lord revealed the meaning of the death, burial, and resurrection. The Twelve apostles were ignorant of this message.

While the "cross" is not mentioned specifically, Peter did preach the resurrection. (cf. Acts 2:32)

And again, while the cross was not mentioned specifically, Peter did preach to a Gentile, the resurrection, and the command to go out and preach to all people. (cf. Acts 10:39-41)

While the cross is very important, without the resurrection, it means nothing. Only that man named Jesus, died there.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[patrick jane]

In seminary, I was first introduced to the notion that the Gospels should have been included along with the Old Testament.

The "New Testament" did not start until after the crucifixion.

And ask yourselves, what are the Gospels?

Of course it means the "good news", but the "good news" did not spread until after the ascension.

Peter, with all due respect, was not the brightest bulb in the pack. Tradition holds that Peters first epistle wasn't written until perhaps 80-110 1 Peter.

And it took a very long time for Peter to understand what he said in 1 Pet 1:20.

"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world," -1 Pet. 1:20 (KJV)



While the "cross" is not mentioned specifically, Peter did preach the resurrection. (cf. Acts 2:32)

And again, while the cross was not mentioned specifically, Peter did preach to a Gentile, the resurrection, and the command to go out and preach to all people. (cf. Acts 10:39-41)

While the cross is very important, without the resurrection, it means nothing. Only that man named Jesus, died there.

God Bless

Till all are one.

You might be catholic but yes the cross by itself is not the saving gospel. Paul eas THE FIRST to preach the DBR, death, burial, and resurrection. The 12 did not understand the DBR and the gospel of grace given to Paul straight from the Risen Ascended Lord Jesus Christ, until conferring with Paul in Galatians 1 & 2. See post # 1 and how the 12 knew not. Peter preach repentance and the Kingdom gospel.

 

[DeaconDean]

You might be catholic but yes the cross by itself is not the saving gospel.

Now where in the world did you draw that conclusion?

Like I said, I see preaching the resurrection in Acts 2, which pretty much ends discussion on Mid-Acts Dispensation.

"The CROSS: On it hangs a dead King. Whatever He is, whoever He was, He is now dead. This is the Good Friday Jesus! Then something happened. The miracle of His RESURRECTION. We now have the Easter Sunday Christ. We worship a RISEN Savior. Get this: Without the RESURRECTION the CROSS means nothing. Let us as Preachers give as much time to His RESURRECTION as we do His death. The Resurrection and the Cross must go together. We cannot not, and we must not, stress one more than the other. Let us take the Resurrection of Jesus Christ out of the mothballs and begin to preach about it throughout the year. Let us praise God for both the CROSS and the RESURRECTION. (Dr. Reg Dunlap)

Source

The scriptures only recognize two types of people, Jews and Gentiles.

If you want to get purely technical, Jesus was the first to preach to a "Gentile".

And He said nothing of His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[patrick jane]

Now where in the world did you draw that conclusion?

Like I said, I see preaching the resurrection in Acts 2, which pretty much ends discussion on Mid-Acts Dispensation.

"The CROSS: On it hangs a dead King. Whatever He is, whoever He was, He is now dead. This is the Good Friday Jesus! Then something happened. The miracle of His RESURRECTION. We now have the Easter Sunday Christ. We worship a RISEN Savior. Get this: Without the RESURRECTION the CROSS means nothing. Let us as Preachers give as much time to His RESURRECTION as we do His death. The Resurrection and the Cross must go together. We cannot not, and we must not, stress one more than the other. Let us take the Resurrection of Jesus Christ out of the mothballs and begin to preach about it throughout the year. Let us praise God for both the CROSS and the RESURRECTION. (Dr. Reg Dunlap)

Source

The scriptures only recognize two types of people, Jews and Gentiles.

If you want to get purely technical, Jesus was the first to preach to a "Gentile".

And He said nothing of His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Absolutely. But Jesus preached the Kingdom gospel. There's more than one piece of "good news" in the Bible. Paul had a new gospel by revelation from Christ Jesus. Remember when Jesus said I am sent NOT, but for the lost sheep of ISRAEL?

 

[DeaconDean]

It is also a known fact that Paul's message about the cross:

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." -1 Cor. 1:18 (KJV)

Until after he left Galatia.

And if you really want to investigate, Paul was himself constrained to go to the Jews first!

"While Paul considered himself the Apostle to the Gentiles, in fact he first visited the synagogues during his missionary journeys. He felt obligated to first preach to the Jews, and only thereafter would he make an effort with the Gentiles. For example, he first visited the synagogues in Damascus (Acts 9:20), Salamis (13:5), Pisidian Antioch (13:14), Iconium (14:1), Thessalonica (17:1), Berea (17:10), Corinth (18:8), and Ephesus (18:19). He even prayed in the Temple of Jerusalem when he was visited by the Lord (Acts 22:17-18)! Only after continued rejection by the Jews (Acts 13:46, 18:6, 28:24) did he turn to the Gentiles."

Source

And if you really want to get technical, Peter and Paul both preached the same message:

Christ crucified:

Acts 2:36; 4:10
1 Cor. 1:13, 23; 2:2
Gal. 3:1; 5:24; 6:14

There is no way I'm diminishing what was done "on the cross".

Peter preached Christ crucified and resurrected, same as Paul.

And Peter first preached Christ crucified in Acts 2.

Yes, they were still in Jerusalem, but they were also following Jesus' command.

Luke records:

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." -Acts 1:8 (KJV)

As a matter of fact, just prior to Saul's conversion, we see the disciples/Apostles first venturing out to spread the Gospel message in Stephen, and then before Saul/Paul, Phillip.

Galatians was written, just prior to the First Apostolic Council in Acts 15, which tradition hol;ds happened around AD 40. And this was just a mere 7 years (presumably) after the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension.

The cross is important. But not as important as the work done it, who did it, or the resurrection after it.

I just see it in a different light.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

Paul had a new gospel by revelation from Christ Jesus.

And John didn't?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

Now where in the world did you draw that conclusion?

You still didn't answer my question.

You said to me:

You might be catholic

Just wondering if that was a general statement, or one directed at me personally.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[patrick jane]

You still didn't answer my question.

You said to me:



Just wondering if that was a general statement, or one directed at me personally.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I used to be catholic and I know one who posts on another forum and he claims the resurrection is the most important thing and it's hard to say otherwise. I'm not attacking you, I'm sorry. The free gift of being saved by grace through faith for all who believe in the DBR is just as important in my mind. Jesus had to fulfill the law and the prophets before that could happen and usher in the gospel of grace. You're correct in focusing on the resurrection yet what the Risen Lord did AFTER He rose from the dead is extremely significant, imo.

 

[patrick jane]

And John didn't?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Things that differ are not the same.

 

[DeaconDean]

Things that differ are not the same.

I am merely pointing out an inconsistency in what you said:

Paul had a new gospel by revelation from Christ Jesus.

What is the title of John's 4th book?

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ"?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[patrick jane]

I am merely pointing out an inconsistency in what you said:



What is the title of John's 4th book?

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ"?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Yes, throughout the Bible God gives revelations to the people He chooses.

Galatians 1:8-18 KJV -
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

 

[DeaconDean]

We also have the Four Synoptic Gospels; Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

What "new" Gospel was revealed to Paul?

Yes, throughout the Bible God gives revelations to the people He chooses.

Galatians 1:8-18 KJV -
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

But what new gospel did Christ give Paul that He did not give the others?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

Lets put this another way.

It was said:

The preaching of the cross was offered for salvation first through the Apostle Paul as the Lord revealed the meaning of the death, burial, and resurrection. The Twelve apostles were ignorant of this message.

I beg to differ.

One fact that that is missed, when were the Gospels written?

Were they "journals" written by the disciples as they occurred, or were they written shortly after the death, burial, and resurrection?

I believe it was the latter.

And in fact, all four gospels speak of the cross, the death, the burial, and resurrection.

Paul in fact, preached no new gospel than that written by the disciples.

And if one would look, the biggest problem Paul fought was Gnosticism. That began in Galatia.

Like I said, I can show from scripture that Peter did indeed preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, just like Paul.

Sorry.

God Bless

TIll all are one.

 

[patrick jane]

Lets put this another way.

It was said:



I beg to differ.

One fact that that is missed, when were the Gospels written?

Were they "journals" written by the disciples as they occurred, or were they written shortly after the death, burial, and resurrection?

I believe it was the latter.

And in fact, all four gospels speak of the cross, the death, the burial, and resurrection.

Paul in fact, preached no new gospel than that written by the disciples.

And if one would look, the biggest problem Paul fought was Gnosticism. That began in Galatia.

Like I said, I can show from scripture that Peter did indeed preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, just like Paul.

Sorry.

God Bless

TIll all are one.

Galatians and I think Thessalonians were written about 49 AD or very early 50s AD. according to NIV study Bible. Paul wrote BEFORE Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. So there. You can't show that Peter preached DBR, because he DID NOT. Go try and find it. Paul gets a bad rap because people fail to read the books of Romans through Philemon and UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY CLEARLY SAY. You'll see someday.

 

[DeaconDean]

Galatians 1:8-18 KJV -
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Let me quote John Gill here:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven
The apostle, in order to assert the more strongly the truth, purity, and perfection of the Gospel, as preached by him; and to deter persons from preaching another Gospel, and others from receiving it, supposes a case impossible; and, in such a case, denounces his anathemas. It was not possible, that he, or any of his fellow apostles, who had been so clearly led and so fully established in the Gospel of Christ, and of which they had had such a powerful and comfortable experience in their souls, could ever preach one different from it; nor was it possible that a good angel, one that is in heaven, that always beholds the face of God there, is ever ready to do his will, as he never could be employed by God in publishing another, so he never would; and yet, was it possible or such a thing to be done by such men, or such an angel, he or they would deserve the curse of God and men; their having the highest names, or being of the highest character, and in the highest office and class of beings, would not screen them; and therefore how should the false apostles, and those who followed them, ever think to escape, since even these would not, should they

preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you;
that is, not only anyone that is contrary to it, but any one besides it; for such was the perfection of the Gospel, as preached by the apostle, who declared the whole counsel of God, and kept back nothing that was profitable to the churches, that no addition could, or might be made unto it:

let him be accursed,
or "anathema"; see ( 1 Corinthians 16:22 ) which may respect his excommunication out of the church, and his sentence of condemnation by Christ at the last day; and the sense be this, let him be ejected from the ministry of the word, degraded from his office, and cast out of the church; let him be no more a minister, nor a member of it; and let him be abhorred of men, and accursed of Christ; let him hear the awful sentence, "go ye accursed"

Source

Paul preached the same Gospel that others had preached. (cf. Acts 2)

God Bless

Till all are one.