I wouldn't declare your faith invalid, Steven. Last night I listened to a sermon by an Evangelical preacher I used to enjoy, and realized that he and I had totally different understandings of what "saved" meant.
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Trent
Canon 9.
If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone,[114] meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.
Canon 24.
If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works,[125] but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, let him be anathema.
9 for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.
Romans 10:9-10 NAB
I’m just posting scripture. Salvation is by faith and true faith is evidenced by works. I’m pretty sure this is entirely in line with Catholic teaching.
Ok I got tired of addressing them one by one. There is no discrepancy between what Jesus teaches and what Paul teaches. Salvation is by faith in God. Without saving faith, good works are worthless. Those with true faith will do good works.
But the Catholic Church does not teach that we receive initial justification by good works. You do not have to do good works in order to come to God and be justified.
The Council of Trent states: "We are said to be justified by grace because nothing that precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification. For 'if it is by grace, it is no longer by works; otherwise,' as the apostle says, 'grace is no more grace' [Rom. 11:6]" (Decree on Justification 8).
Is Salvation by God's grace or works that we do? @Tallguy88 says salvation is by God's grace
I've also got the Vatican in my corner.When you have protestants in your corner on the salvation issue, you know you've got it wrong!
Grace through faith.Nope, tallguy never used the word Grace, if he did, I would have never commented.
We need to understand that faith and grace are 2 different things.
31.We confess together that persons are justified by faith in the gospel "apart from works prescribed by the law" (Rom3:28). Christ has fulfilled the law and by his death and resurrection has overcome it as a way to salvation. We also confess that God's commandments retain their validity for the justified and that Christ has by his teaching and example expressed God's will which is a standard for the conduct of the justified also.This joint declaration does not back up your statement:
"I’m just posting scripture. Salvation is by faith and true faith is evidenced by works."
To shed a little clarity on what the Church teaches about faith and justification I give you Trent:31.We confess together that persons are justified by faith in the gospel "apart from works prescribed by the law" (Rom3:28). Christ has fulfilled the law and by his death and resurrection has overcome it as a way to salvation. We also confess that God's commandments retain their validity for the justified and that Christ has by his teaching and example expressed God's will which is a standard for the conduct of the justified also.
37.We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - follow justification and are its fruits. When the justified live in Christ and act in the grace they receive, they bring forth, in biblical terms, good fruit. Since Christians struggle against sin their entire lives, this consequence of justification is also for them an obligation they must fulfill. Thus both Jesus and the apostolic Scriptures admonish Christians to bring forth the works of love.
This says faith is a good work, not the cause of salvation.We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - follow justification and are its fruits
Then why did the Church sign the document saying that we believe essentially the same things about salvation that the Lutherans Do?To shed a little clarity on what the Church teaches about faith and justification I give you Trent:
"But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[44] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God[45] and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.[46]"
More from Trent:
"For though no one can be just except he to whom the merits of the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated" GRACE
You said:
"I’m just posting scripture. Salvation is by faith and true faith is evidenced by works."
Trent:
"For faith, unless hope and charity be added to it, neither unites man perfectly with Christ nor makes him a living member of His body"
This says faith is a good work, not the cause of salvation.
Justification and Salvation ARE NOT interchangeable words!
Grace, faith, salvation, justification. I have seen many Catholic wrongly use these words when describing what the Church teaches.
Then why did the Church sign the document saying that we believe essentially the same things about salvation that the Lutherans Do?
That’s what the joint declaration boils down to. Why did the Church sign it if we don’t believe essentially the same thing?We don't believe essentially the same thing.
Declarations of joint theological agreement are often taken to mean different things by different people. Lutherans might be more likely to point out positives, and not fully understand the realities behind the differences.That’s what the joint declaration boils down to. Why did the Church sign it if we don’t believe essentially the same thing?
Matthew 19:16This lines up perfectly with what Paul.
"Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?" He answered, "Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, obey the Commandments. "Which ones?" he asked. Jesus replied "You shall not kill"; 'You shall not commit adultery'; 'You shall not steal'; 'You shall not bear false witness'; 'Honor your father and mother'; and 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Actually, since the Lutheran-Catholic document on Justification, you are only half-right. We can agree if we drop the polemics, or rather if they drop the polemics. If we all drop the polemics. We know it's far more than just saying one has faith. We all know it's not just works. We all know it's by grace. We all know Luther fudged his translation of Romans. We all know Jesus expected a lot better of us than what we've managed since the Reformation.When you have protestants in your corner on the salvation issue, you know you've got it wrong!