17 Students Killed at Florida High School

redleghunter

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redleghunter

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Ada Lovelace

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Important to note at least 4 of the nations the graph shows it is the government killing people with guns.

It's important to note that the graph only charts mass public shootings, as defined by a public shooting with four or more victims. It doesn't include shooting rampages such as the one at an elementary school in South Carolina I referenced in post #25 that prompted a child traumatized by it to write to Trump asking how he planned on keeping kids safe from guns at school (and called him out on his failure to answer that question), because that shooting "only" injured two and stole the life of this little boy:
jacob-hall.jpg


School%20Shooting%20South%20Carolina

Caption: Oct. 5, 2016 file photo, Dale Hall, dressed as Superman, stands before the casket during a superhero-themed funeral service for his brother, Jacob Hall at Oakdale Baptist Church, in Townville, S.C. The teenager who shot and killed a child on a South Carolina school yard cried and apologized afterward and said it was a good thing his gun jammed before he could shoot more children, a detective testified Monday, Feb. 12, 2018. Read more here: Detective: Teen said gun jam stopped SC school shooting carnage

It doesn't include the number of law enforcement officials fatally shot in the United States, or the number of people fatally shot by law enforcement officials. It doesn't include suicide by gun. It doesn't include domestic violence involving guns. It doesn't include the number of people shot by toddlers who've assumed a gun they discovered was a toy and caused a tragedy incomprehensible to them.
 
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redleghunter

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Not at all -- I'm arguing that thoughts that don't result in some sort of actions accomplish nothing.

Alas, no actions of any kind are forthcoming.
One of the major themes from the coverage of the Vegas and Texas church murders was looking at improving on detection of indicators. In this case in Florida, the indicator was blinking red and smoking hot. Cruz should have been behind triple strand wired fence in a Juvey Hall well before this shooting.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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The missed indicators is staggering:

Florida school shooting suspect was ex-student who was flagged as threat

Kid should have been in Juvey Hall months ago.

From your source:
Late Wednesday, detectives were digging into the past of the 19-year-old who had no previous arrests but had displayed plenty of troubling behavior before officers took him into custody after what ranks as the third-deadliest school shooting in American history.

Juvenile hall is for juveniles who've violated the law, but he had no previous arrests. This murderer was legally an adult who legally purchased the AR-15 rifle used on his bloody rampage. You don't need a permit or license to buy a gun in Florida. (And you don't have to register your gun either). Yes, he definitely had a history of a troubled past - a fascination with weapons and bellicose behavior on social media, but so do many others who do not go on to commit violent crimes. The group leader of white supremacist militia claimed Cruz belonged to the group and trained with other members in paramilitary drills, which may be reprehensible and disturbing, but it is legal. Many of the same people who are now - after the massacre has been perpetrated - decrying a lack of due diligence in failing to arrest him, or failure to confiscate his weapons, would have decried what they'd characterize as a lack of due process, an unjust denial of his right to bear arms, and discrimination because of his affiliation with the white supremacist group - had that occurred prior to the massacre.

The mother of Elliot Rodger, the Isla Vista mass shooter, called the police on her son in distressful worry just before he committed the rampage because of his unhinged online rants (he was furious about being 22 and still a virgin), but when they came to his door he was cogent and able to convince the officers he posed no harm. His father said he does not blame the police, but would like to see the law changed so that gun checks are required on these types of calls, stating if they had done so they would know that Elliot had bought three automatic weapons. They would have the right to seize him for 24 hours, thus thwarting the plan.....at least for that day. But his advocacy for that law has been met with fury by gun rights advocates.
 
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redleghunter

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Juvenile hall is for juveniles who've violated the law, but he had no previous arrests.
He had enough in school transgressions to get arrested.
 
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pgp_protector

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One of the major themes from the coverage of the Vegas and Texas church murders was looking at improving on detection of indicators. In this case in Florida, the indicator was blinking red and smoking hot. Cruz should have been behind triple strand wired fence in a Juvey Hall well before this shooting.
Before the shooting, are we looking for a Precrimes division?
 
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Ada Lovelace

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He had enough in school transgressions to get arrested.

List the school transgressions that were sufficient grounds for him to be arrested.
 
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redleghunter

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List the school transgressions that were sufficient grounds for him to be arrested.
Kicking out a glass window to get out of a class room. Assault. Both of which led to his suspension, however reportable to the local LE.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Kicking out a glass window to get out of a class room. Assault. Both of which led to his suspension, however reportable to the local LE.

Sources please.
 
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drjean

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The FBI saw his youtube video, knew his name and did nothing. Five months ago: Bennight, who works for AFAB Bail Bonds in D'Iberville, Miss., took a screenshot and reported the post. According to the video he posted Wednesday night, he then contacted the FBI.

Originally the FBI said (yesterday) that they didn't know who it was and couldn't figure out how to find out. The FBI can't find someone? They visited the bondsman who found the post and questioned HIM!

The FBI (Miami official says they) did not visit the shooter when they were told who he was. They had named reports with information on the guy, and could have easily pulled his school records...we are talking about the FBI folks. They. Did. Nothing. For whatever reasons, they didn't follow up.

I'm not talking politics. I'm a former psychologist. I'm talking human behavior and origins of misbehavior in all forms. Dysfunction begins in the family, in the home. Even recent statistics still prove that the best home environment for children has 2 parents, one of each sex, even if they fight at times.

You take Godly values out of the home and out of the schools and this is what you get.

May I educate the younger crowd here that in the 50s, 60s and some 70s we had GUN CLUBS in the schools. Yep, ammo and guns and students. We didn't have shootings then.
 
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Trogdor the Burninator

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Gene2memE

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May I educate the younger crowd here that in the 50s, 60s and some 70s we had GUN CLUBS in the schools. Yep, ammo and guns and students. We didn't have shootings then.

You did - just not as many nor as highly publicized. In the 1950s, there were 17 school shootings, in the 1960s there were 18 and in the 1970s there were 30.

The mass of school shootings in the US is a modern phenomenon - rates of school shootings accelerated rapidly in the mid 1990s. I'm not sure anyone fully understands the reasons, but 'Godly values' in and out of school don't seem to be correlated.

Perhaps, as a former psychologist, you are aware of the Copycat Phenomenon, and would have some insight into how it relates to the saturation media environment and school shootings?
 
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drjean

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That source also says that only (sigh) 14 school children died during those 3 decades. I'm sure the aim was for teachers.

Perhaps if I had said "moral" values it would have been understood however this is a Christian board and most Christians understand that you cannot have morals without God. The societal mores are forever moving according to the desires of that society. Morals cannot be moveable but must remain a foundation for a stable and healthy society. Removing God removes morals.

I wrote one of my degree theses on the Christian School Dilemma; the isolationism that was being created by Christian parents pulling their students out of public schools and placing them into startup Christian church schools. Exactly what I predicted has occurred.

So using the term "Godly values" is the same as using "moral values". But surely even the unbelievers can relate to the problems we have as a society as people not caring about others, not respecting them nor their property,not putting others first, no compassion, no empathy, no consequences for actions, etc.?

The Ten Commandments at it's worst would still give us the values to live by.


As for the media that is quite political. It was bad enough in the ages past that the phrase "if it bleeds it leeds" was media motto. That meant that the (leed) lead story every newscast began with was one of hype and horror. If they didn't have one it was considered "a slow news day." However, today the entire "newscast" has almost nothing but somebody "bleeding" and constant attacks whether founded or unfounded. I blame the violent video games for aberrant childhood behavior in general. I play video games and fully understand and have experienced phenomena related to whatever game I was playing--both good aspects and poor.

Copycat killings are no stronger than the supposedly copycat suicides. One who is not inclined is not given the impetus to do so. This means that unless someone is already contemplating and wired to do a killing or a self killing, seeing it on tv or in media is not going to make them do it. Mentally unwell people who need "15 minutes of fame" or are angry/depressed with their lives are those who commit heinous acts.

HOWEVER with the intrusion of constant violent videos into the brain/mind then the impetus to do so is seeded. IMO killing becomes a matter-of-fact and some cannot differentiate between reality and video games (and have shared how they thought the person would get back up like in the video game!)

Society needs God. Pure and simple.
Those who have God understand this. God tells us that the unbeliever not only won't understand, but can't. "But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Society will only continue to decline, around the world as a whole. God tells us this is how the end times are and we are "here".

Be ready.
 
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Rion

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This is not how you cite an article... if there is a particular point you're trying to make, you speak about the idea from that article, not simply give an article name.

I know how you cite an article. I posted it like a bibliography as a joke because you can't stop being condescending for five minutes.
 
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drjean

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Our final step into abject insanity on this subject was Sandy Hook. After we decided we're ok with classrooms full of dead five year olds, there was nothing else to even talk about.

Business as usual. Just offer 'thoughts and prayers', throw out a few tired old canards about mental health and restart the clock.

I read that article online that challenged people, no matter where they sit on the issue, to sit and read the autopsy reports from Vegas and Sandy Hook. Honestly, I don’t have words at all to describe my feelings. All I feel is just a total sense of anguish, guilt, and shame.

To be clear, I’ve always been for gun control, even before these incidents. I guess I thought that was enough. I didn’t need to know more about these guns beyond seeing body counts and survivor stories. I didn’t need to know more to know they were destructive.

But reading the autopsy reports? Swear to God... I didn’t know. I genuinely, honestly, didn’t know. I didn’t know what those bullets did to those sweet babies and how they were mangled. I didn’t know what happened in Vegas or what those injuries were like. I thought with the former it was close distance and the later it was the volume of shots fired and the concentration of people... I didn’t know what kind of damage these bullets were doing to people and from how far away, and how it was complete and total carnage comparable to the front lines of a war in close range incidents like CT and Orlando.

Reading those reports and understanding the scope of the brutality... It has changed me. I’m deeply, deeply humbled, ashamed, embarrassed, buried in guilt for not realizing what these guns do and just now brutal they are. I feel convicted, deeply convicted, to start trying to make a tangible difference in this issue... Especially as, in our state, they are trying to enact legislation that would penalize schools financially and otherwise for PREVENTING guns presence on school property and school events.

Honestly, the whole thing makes me want to vomit.
 
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