17 Students Killed at Florida High School

[MoneyGuy]

Well, let's do the math.

18÷45 = .4 or 40%.

.4÷100,000 = .000004 or .0004%.

Very low chance of a shooting at any one school but an unacceptably high chance of it happening tomorrow or the next day or the day after that.

 

[Rion]

Its stagerring... that 0.4 @Rion came up with means theres a 40% chance a shooting will occur in a school every day. I just dont get why thats not considered severely worrying or worse "not high" as @Rion describes it

That is not what I said at all. I said a
.0004% a day.

Yes, let's reduce dead children to numbers and statistics. That makes it easier to ignore the problem.

That is not what I was doing. I was addressing the numbers she threw out without understanding them.

I am sorry for the fact that I am higher on the need for cognition rather than the need for affect. I grieve for the children and families affected by this. However, I don't think that knee-jerk, emotional responses are the way to handle any problem.

Like the migrant problem in Europe, it is a complex and multi-faceted issue where there are no easy answers. You cannot simply pass a law that fixes it, and it isn't an either or scenario. Do you think that outlawing guns would work any better than the war on drugs or the war on terror?

An emotional response that isn't thought through isn't about solving the problem, but about making you feel better.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I am sorry for the fact that I am higher on the need for cognition rather than the need for affect. I grieve for the children and families affected by this. However, I don't think that knee-jerk, emotional responses are the way to handle any problem.

Like the migrant problem in Europe, it is a complex and multi-faceted issue where there are no easy answers. You cannot simply pass a law that fixes it, and it isn't an either or scenario. Do you think that outlawing guns would work any better than the war on drugs or the war on terror?

An emotional response that isn't thought through isn't about solving the problem, but about making you feel better.

Hence the "thoughts" in the thoughts and prayers.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Its stagerring... that 0.4 @Rion came up with means theres a 40% chance a shooting will occur in a school every day. I just dont get why thats not considered severely worrying or worse "not high" as @Rion describes it

Many of us do care and are concerned but the people in our government and more importantly, the people who own them don't care and for now, they are in control and probably will be for some time to come. I won't be having any children but I do worry about my niece who is 7 and is the picture of innocence. I can't and don't want to imagine what it would do to her to go through something so traumatic. Tears are literally welling up as I type this.

 

[Saricharity]

Why are there so many school shootings in the United States? It appears like school shootings are overwhelmingly an America phenomenon. Why is that if it isn't because of the wide availability of firearms? I'm not very knowledgeable about gun laws or the differences between say the US and Canada. It appears like Canada has had 19 shootings between 1884-2016 according to Wiki. Why are schools shootings so prevalent in the United States?

 

[Rion]

Hence the "thoughts" in the thoughts and prayers.

You're arguing that we should react on a purely emotional level. Again, that is to make you feel better rather than helping others. This is utterly selfish and will only lead to more suffering. Compassion must be tempered with reason for it to truly help the people who need it.

 

[Goonie]

Why are there so many school shootings in the United States? It appears like school shootings are overwhelmingly an America phenomenon. Why is that if it isn't because of the wide availability of firearms? I'm not very knowledgeable about gun laws or the differences between say the US and Canada. It appears like Canada has had 19 shootings between 1884-2016 according to Wiki. Why are schools shootings so prevalent in the United States?

Culture as much as gun laws, I believe gun ownership is not exactly unknown in Canada either

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I am sorry for the fact that I am higher on the need for cognition rather than the need for affect. I grieve for the children and families affected by this. However, I don't think that knee-jerk, emotional responses are the way to handle any problem.

Like the migrant problem in Europe, it is a complex and multi-faceted issue where there are no easy answers. You cannot simply pass a law that fixes it, and it isn't an either or scenario. Do you think that outlawing guns would work any better than the war on drugs or the war on terror?

An emotional response that isn't thought through isn't about solving the problem, but about making you feel better.

I guess I just get tired of hearing this doesn't happen enough to do something about it.

 

[drjean]

I was trying to not join in on the fear-mongering by those who tout "get the guns out of the USA". There's a charter Christian? school here locally who offered bullet proof backpack plates for $100 a pop... encouraging each family to buy them for their students.

I doubt students could even realize there's a problem. Their critical thinking skills have not been instilled. Even while the guy was shooting their first inclination was to find their phones to video! Teachers had to yell no no no forget the phones run run run!

However, this morning they are in a Lantana trailer park ... connected to this murderer? Could be another shooter, and a bomb ready to be used.

The guy was flagged to the FBI already. Guess they were too busy creating dirt on POTUS to get him and stop him.

His problems began as a child with the break up of the nucleus family unit. Socialists did that decades ago, in their plans for NWO, removed support for the 2 heterosexual parents to raise children. Even today it's found that THAT environment is still the best.

The guy was mentally ill. His school mates knew it. The administrations knew it. They wouldn't let him carry a back pack in school because once he had bullet fragments in it. Students knew he killed his dog, loved to kill frogs etc. His FB page talked of shooting. When in school he threatened other students. It was known he had firearms in the home.

His adoptive mother died last year.

The FBI failed us again.

 

[SummerMadness]

Plane crashes are rare, if one happens, ignore it, don't investigate and don't make any changes to prevent it from happening again. They're rare!

 

[Rion]

I guess I just get tired of hearing this doesn't happen enough to do something about it.

That wasn't what I was saying. @Zoii was claiming that it was much higher than it was. I was trying to address this in a manner that I thought she would prefer after our last conversation about numbers and racism. In that case, she was highly academic and low on emotional responses.

People tend to be highly cognitive in their reasoning or highly affective. Using the opposite direction when arguing with a person doesn't have any effect on them, and can even make them confused. So, I try to use the method which I think that they will understand best.

 

[drjean]

As I type this, FBI are in a Lantana FL trailer park. They might be looking for a second shooter, and a bomb maker with a bomb someone fully intended to use. NOW they follow up on reports?

 

[Saricharity]

Culture as much as gun laws, I believe gun ownership is not exactly unknown in Canada either

Is culture THAT radically different than Canada?
No, my father owns a gun. He has a gun licence to own it. I have no idea what kind it is...some kind of rifle I think. He's used it to shoot coyotes after our sheep and once to put down a rabid dog on our property. I'm not a huge fan of guns and I'm glad he keeps it locked up tight.

 

[durangodawood]

...gun licence....

Wow. Must be awful living in totalitarian state like that!

 

[essentialsaltes]

Its very sad and especially on Valentines day of all days.

I've read that the murderer was expelled for fighting with his ex's new boyfriend, so there may be a message in his choice of day.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You're arguing that we should react on a purely emotional level.

Not at all -- I'm arguing that thoughts that don't result in some sort of actions accomplish nothing.

Alas, no actions of any kind are forthcoming.

 

[Zoii]

That is not what I said at all. I said a
.0004% a day.



That is not what I was doing. I was addressing the numbers she threw out without understanding them.

I am sorry for the fact that I am higher on the need for cognition rather than the need for affect. I grieve for the children and families affected by this. However, I don't think that knee-jerk, emotional responses are the way to handle any problem.

Like the migrant problem in Europe, it is a complex and multi-faceted issue where there are no easy answers. You cannot simply pass a law that fixes it, and it isn't an either or scenario. Do you think that outlawing guns would work any better than the war on drugs or the war on terror?

An emotional response that isn't thought through isn't about solving the problem, but about making you feel better.

No you divided 18 by 45... thats how many schools are shot up with kids murdered each day.... 0.4. Thats maths. There were 18 school shootings in 45 days in 2018 = 0.4 schools per day.... or another way of expressing it mathematically is... what is the probability there is going to be a school shooting on any one day =40%. To which you stated thats not high. Im not debating this. Im just echoing facts and your own statement

 

[Rion]

Not at all -- I'm arguing that thoughts that don't result in some sort of actions accomplish nothing.

Alas, no actions of any kind are forthcoming.

That is in large part because the side which should be arguing for finding a long term, reasonable solution always react with a knee-jerk response to ban guns.

 

[Rion]

No you divided 18 by 45... thats how many schools are shot up with kids murdered each day.... 0.4. Thats maths

That is percentage of days which an incident occurred at all, but ignores the number of schools in total. Your math is how fast food restaurants can claim "1 in 5 wins."

 

[SummerMadness]

Yes, let's reduce dead children to numbers and statistics. That makes it easier to ignore the problem.

It's also poor reasoning. You can't argue something is high based on frequency alone. Places called high crime areas also have a similar percentage of occurrence, yet the people making those arguments would not live in such areas. Even reducing to number of times a week, while making it a more "human" value, doesn't help because "high" is based on how it compares to others.

How does this frequency compare to other countries around the world? What countries should go on the list, is a moot point, but regardless of the list, that's how you get a real understanding of what is high because now you can finally ascribe value to the number. If the rate of something happening was 5 per 100,000, you can't say that is high or low. If you made this measurement elsewhere and found mostly measurements of 50 per 100,000, then the number is low; likewise, if it is 0.5 per 100,000, then the number is high.