Does God only impute righteousness to us, or does He also impart it?

LoveofTruth

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He BECAME flesh, that He should heal our flesh, for by His stripes we are healed...
Another verse to consider

Romans 8 - 23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”

We wait for the redemption of our body we don’t have it yet. This corruptible must put on incorruptible.
 
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Arsenios

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Yes it does, I have heard them use this argument before. In fact as soon as you show them that when they committed sin they are of the devil. They will be irritated and say , "no I can never loose my salvation" I am still of God if i commit sin, I don't habitually sin or practice it" they say.

It may have to do with them, but not with the doctrine... But why are you accusing them? Have you accusations ever produced any fruit other than irritation with them?

And yet they still say they sin in word though and deed all day long and cannot cease from sin.

I have never even once found finger-pointing at another person's sins to be useful in any way to the person being accused...

Then they rush to try and use the word for "prasso" here, which emphatically is not there. it doesn't mean what their new versions say. The KJV had it right and the greek is not the same as in Romans 1 etc.

The practicing of repentance and the doing of repentance are the same thing...

Call up some Greek Church and ask to speak with someone who knows Greek Scripture and ask him or her...

If that is too much, try most any Greek language department in any university...

You simply have a distinction without a difference...

Let the osas'ers be...

Accusing them is not good for your soul...

Nor is it helpful for theirs...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Another verse to consider

Romans 8 - 23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”

We wait for the redemption of our body we don’t have it yet. This corruptible must put on incorruptible.
We have the incorruptible in an earnest...
IF...
We mortify our flesh...

The very SHADOW of Peter healed the sick...
Elijah laid his body on the dead child and brought it to life...

The Apostles laid hands on those they ordained...

We have an earnest now as in a mirror darkly...
We look to the Age to Come...

Arsenios
 
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justbyfaith

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Hello yourself. :)

I merely cut and pasted a verse from the NASB which I tend to favor. I have no axe to grind at all as to how it is translated. I am at the mercy of the Greek experts as we all are.
Good because it is as I have
The sin is attributed to sin which dwells in us.
&
"And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." Romans 76:20

No - when we sin we are not abiding in th light.

Of course..

No Bible believer would or could disagree with that.

Yes it is a strong section.

It and other scriptures which correlate with it do indeed affect how we understand being made the righteousness of God.

Obviously you have an agenda against the eternal security of the believer. This is not the thread for that discussion and my post did not address t hat question.

Don't you agree?

Good. You are obviously an honest person.

No one outside of out and out "antinomians" give license to sin. No one here is of that flavor - that I have seen.
I do not say that.

As I said previously and clearly - it is both.

I believe we are declared righteous before God because of our faith, sealed by His Holy Spirit based on our faith, and changed in our behavior concerning righteous behavior by that same indwelling Spirit.

I believe further that the new creation (the spiritual man who is united with God) cannot sin. I believe further that the natural man who still dwells with us can do little else but sin.

Here in this thread we are discussing whether one is imputed with righteousness or imparted with righteousness.

The answer is obviously "both".

If you believe that those who have passed from death into life can come again into condemnation (in spite of the clear teaching of the Lord) - that is you prerogative.

You seem to have an agenda against once saved always saved doctrine which would be (IMO) better served in a thread related to that debate.
Hello yourself. :)

I merely cut and pasted a verse from the NASB which I tend to favor. I have no axe to grind at all as to how it is translated. I am at the mercy of the Greek experts as we all are.
Good because it is as I have said.

The sin is attributed to sin which dwells in us.

"And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." Romans 76:20

No - when we sin we are not abiding in the light.

Of course..

No Bible believer would or could disagree with that.

Yes it is a strong section.

It and other scriptures which correlate with it do indeed affect how we understand being made the righteousness of God.

Obviously you have an agenda against the eternal security of the believer. This is not the thread for that discussion and my post did not address t hat question.

Don't you agree?

Good. You are obviously an honest person.

No one outside of out and out "antinomians" give license to sin. No one here is of that flavor - that I have seen.
I do not say that.

As I said previously and clearly - it is both.

I believe we are declared righteous before God because of our faith, sealed by His Holy Spirit based on our faith, and changed in our behavior concerning righteous behavior by that same indwelling Spirit.

I believe further that the new creation (the spiritual man who is united with God) cannot sin. I believe further that the natural man who still dwells with us can do little else but sin.

Here in this thread we are discussing whether one is imputed with righteousness or imparted with righteousness.

The answer is obviously "both".

If you believe that those who have passed from death into life can come again into condemnation (in spite of the clear teaching of the Lord) - that is you prerogative.

You seem to have an agenda against once saved always saved doctrine which would be (IMO) better served in a thread related to that debate.
  • Hello Marvin, I think that most people do not understand how Calvin himself thought of osas: in all reality he saw it not as osas but as pots. Verses to consider are 1 John 2:17, 1 John 2:6, and 1 John 3:6.
 
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It is evident that Jesus TRANSFORMED the nature of Adam...



If He did not, then we are not TRANSFIGURED in Him...



And His Creation, the Blessed Virgin, is His Mother...

He became incarnate through her, you see, to right the wrong that had occurred in Adam...

Arsenios
Becoming incarnate does not change Who His Father is. Jesus has no earthly father. Thus Jesus didn't inherit the sin nature from Adam. Jesus was very much human and divine (God) at the same time.
 
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I sure do...

A lot of us do...

er... Most of us do...

Maybe all of us do...

Mary Magdeline sure did...

I mean, God IS the Cause...

He loved us first, remember?

He loved YOU first...

Remember?

Arsenios
Good for you. This approach nearly cost me my soul.
 
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1Jnohn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


It is important to affirm both scriptures in the same Epistle...

How do you reconcile these two, 1:8 and 3:9 in this Epistle of John?

Arsenios
By not approaching and applying things to the body of flesh.
 
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Very simply 1 john3 talks about us being children of God not children of the devil and he talks about us, who are born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning.
John knows we will fail that is why he writes about God's faithfullness in forgiving us.

Lets be practical. Do you commit sin? If you do are you a Christian?
Do you claim not to sin?
If you do so claim how can you be a Christian when John is saying that those who claim not to sin do not have the truth (Jesus) in them?

How do you answer these apparent contradictions?
Other than how I have answered.
Paul talks about this in Romans 7-12 in detail.
 
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Arsenios

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Another verse to consider
Romans 8 - 23. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”
We wait for the redemption of our body we don’t have it yet. This corruptible must put on incorruptible.
Then we DO have it here and now in an earnest...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Becoming incarnate does not change Who His Father is.

Of couirse not - But it CAN change who WE are...
IF ANY IS WILLING ( Matt 16:24 )

Jesus has no earthly father.

He has a Virgin Earthly Mother...
Do YOU call Her Blessed?

Thus Jesus didn't inherit the sin nature from Adam.

He inherited Adam's death - "...on account of which all have sinned..."

Jesus was very much human and divine (God) at the same time.
Yes... :oldthumbsup:

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Good for you. This approach nearly cost me my soul.
Each person's soul has specific needs for its purification of the heart...

"Blessed are the Pure in Heart...
For they shall see God..."

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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By not approaching and applying things to the body of flesh.

If you do that, then for you, Jesus, who did Himself become incarnate for you, Who Himself approached and applied the flesh of His Body in Obedience to the Father, did so in vain...

The WALK must be of God... The flesh MUST be mortified unto obedience in order that we so do WALK...

Man was created flesh AND Spirit...

In the Fall of Adam, we are ruled by the flesh in Adam's death "for which all have sinned..."

We are to reverse that in Christ, unto blood, even the subjecting of our flesh to death...

Arsenios
 
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LoveofTruth

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It may have to do with them, but not with the doctrine... But why are you accusing them? Have you accusations ever produced any fruit other than irritation with them?

Yes I have, many times

I have never even once found finger-pointing at another person's sins to be useful in any way to the person being accused...

sorry my friend but you couldn't be more wrong than here, consider

Matthew 3:7
"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

Luke 7:28
For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:..."

and

Isaiah 58:1
"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."

Titus 1:13
"This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;"

Galatians 2:11
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."

1 Timothy 5:20

"Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear."


Luke 17:3
"Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him;and if he repent, forgive him."

Matthew 22:18
"But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?"

Matthew 23:27
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."

John 7:7
"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil."

Ecclesiastes 7:5
"It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools."

Proverbs 9:8
"Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."

Proverbs 6:23
"For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:"

Leviticus 19:17
"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."

there are so many verses i would be here all day posting them .But as has always been this verse applies


Amos 5:10
"They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly."

[/QUOTE]
 
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LoveofTruth

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Then we DO have it here and now in an earnest...

Arsenios
no we wait for it. As we overcome to the end and continue in the faith and grace of God then we will have it. We hope for it now and have a promise. But as Paul said we "wait" for the redemption of our body.

All those who teach that we have the redemption of our body now and so we should never get sick or this corruptible body should not be called corruptible are false teachers, sadly.

Not saying you are but I have heard some say very unbiblical things in this regards and in regards to physical healing etc.
 
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LoveofTruth

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I have never even once found finger-pointing at another person's sins to be useful in any way to the person being accused...
Jesus said

Revelation 3:19 KJV
"As many as
I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."


Revelation 3:17 19 KJV
"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and
knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:...As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.""
 
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Arsenios

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Yes I have, many times



sorry my friend but you couldn't be more wrong than here, consider

Matthew 3:7
"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

Luke 7:28
For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:..."

and

Isaiah 58:1
"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."

Titus 1:13
"This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;"

Galatians 2:11
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."

1 Timothy 5:20

"Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear."


Luke 17:3
"Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him;and if he repent, forgive him."

Matthew 22:18
"But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?"

Matthew 23:27
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."

John 7:7
"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil."

Ecclesiastes 7:5
"It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools."

Proverbs 9:8
"Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."

Proverbs 6:23
"For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:"

Leviticus 19:17
"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."

there are so many verses i would be here all day posting them .But as has always been this verse applies


Amos 5:10
"They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly."

Did Christ rebuke Pilate?

Did Christ forgive Pilate?

Did Christ do Good unto Pilate?

Did the Jews whom Christ rebuked bring Israel under Christ?

Or did they crucify Him?

Lord have Mercy!

Arsenios
 
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LoveofTruth

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Did Christ rebuke Pilate?

Did Christ forgive Pilate?

Did Christ do Good unto Pilate?

Did the Jews whom Christ rebuked bring Israel under Christ?

Or did they crucify Him?

Lord have Mercy!

Arsenios

Arsenios
Yes he did since the day he was born. And he everyone that is of the truth hears his voice, Pilot didn't hear his voice in the heart and so was not of the truth and Jesus was saying as much.

Jesus Christ is the true Light that eightieth every man that cometh into the world.

John 1:9
"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

Ephesians 5:13
"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."

John 3:20
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

2 Corinthians 4:4
"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
 
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