COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

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LoveGodsWord

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The coming of Messiah transformed the law, not abolished it, right? So, does the coming of Messiah abolish Israel, not merely transform her?

Before we continue as I have answered your questions in my previous post can you answer my questions as well?

This will help the conversation so there is no misunderstanding.

Many thanks for your consideration to my request.

God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
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Shimshon

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Before we continue as I have answered your questions in my previous post can you answer my questions as well?
I answered the questions you presented to Joe, and presented you with more. But you're deflecting. Why don't you just point out what part of my witnessed you believe was incorrect according to scripture as I have done to you? Or present your points more succinctly, one at a time. The only point I was addressing was your questions to Joe. Now you want to deflect the conversation to a previous post of which I have no idea what your referring to.

How about we stay on topic to the response of the questions I answered by answering my further questions. That would be a better way to function a discussion in my mind. You respond how my response was incorrect, with proof text. Since the text is the only think you seem to be relying on.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I answered the questions you presented to Joe, and presented you with more.

Well that is not true is it? Where did you answer this question below....

LoveGodsWord said: What makes up the OLD Covenant to you and what is the purpose of the laws in the Old Covenant?

Nope all I got as a reply was that you are not going to answer it. That seems to disagree with what you are saying above does it not?

But you're deflecting. Why don't you just point out what part of my witnessed you believe was incorrect according to scripture as I have done to you?

If you would like to share God's Word in relation to the OP let's start. Do you have anything to share?

Or present your points more succinctly, one at a time. The only point I was addressing was your questions to Joe. Now you want to deflect the conversation to a previous post of which I have no idea what your referring to.

How do I know what you are referring to when I do not KNOW you or you state in your posts what it is you are referring to? I have not deflected anything at all my friend. I read and asnwered your first post which is what I have done.

How about we stay on topic to the response of the questions I answered by answering my further questions. That would be a better way to function a discussion in my mind. You respond how my response was incorrect, with proof text. Since the text is the only think you seem to be relying on.

Yes I agree do you have anything to share in relation to the OP? You have not answer a single question from me and I have only asked you one. So I will answer your questions when you answer mine. This is only fair right?

I will respond to your other posts however shortly.

Staying on topic though, do you have anything to share in relation to this OP?

If not I am not here to argue with you my friend you are free to believe and follow what you wish. I do not judge you it is between you and God.

If you want to start another topic go and start one and I will respond there. This thread is about COL 2 THE REAL TRUTH
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Not quite. I can agree with 90% of what you state here. However, what you appear to be missing is the witness of the Holy Spirit within your very being.

Now really my friend? How has what I have posted to you suggest in ANY way to be missing the witness of the Holy Spirit? Are you saying that God's people in the Old Covenant did not have the Holy Spirit as they do in the NEW?

What does God's Word say....

2 Peter 1
21,
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1Sam 10
10,
And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came on him, and he prophesied among them.

2 Ch 15
1,
And the Spirit of God came on Azariah the son of Oded:

2 Ch 24
20,
And the Spirit of God came on Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said to them, Thus said God, Why transgress you the commandments of the LORD, that you cannot prosper? because you have forsaken the LORD, he has also forsaken you.

Etc etc.... there is too many scriptures. Now lets be very clear here. God ONLY Gives the HOLY Spirit to those who OBEY him.

Acts 5,
32
, And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that OBEY HIM.

The old pointed to the new, while the new presents salvation, it doesn't just point to it, 'it is finished'. Messiah has accomplished all that he was sent to do 'in regards to sin and justification'. All that could NOT be accomplished (in this regard) in the old HAS BEEN accomplished in the new. Why would you push off what Jesus has already accomplished?

Why would you suggest in any way that I am pushing off what Jesus has already accomplished? Where have I stated to you anything to make you think that I am?

Is God's work really finsihed? Why is he ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary? Has he come the second time already? Have the judgements of God been completed and delivered? Have the HEAVENS and EARTH been made NEW? Last time I checked Jesus is ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary for those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word and the second coming has not yet happened.

He has come, He has accomplished the work given him to do, and he has risen with all authority. Why do you seemingly downplay or disregard this, his glory?

Where have I ever downplayed or disregard or down play God's Glory? You seem to be consistantly saying things I have never said or stated. Maybe you have me mixed up with someone else as you seem to be confused as to what I have written to you.

Messiah did a work, accomplished his goal, and it is all tied to the 'new' covenant made with Israel.

Amen :oldthumbsup: Now who is God's Israel in the NEW Covenant?

Now, unlike before, the Spirit of God dwells in bodily form. Messiah as our example. "When he returns we will be like him" 1 John 3:2 Having the indwelling of the Spirit that leads us into all truth and reminds us of all that has ever been said. Where are these things in "your" witness?

Jesus is indeed our example. It seems you are confused here as God's Spirit is given to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word by FAITH in both the OLD and NEW Covenants. God's people all through time have received God's Spirit.

God ONLY Gives his Holy Spirit to those who BELIEVE and OBEY him (Acts 5:32). See above already answered.

You just tied the old with the new to lead us to a future salvation. Not the witness I have been given by the Spirit, nor the scriptures.

No one received God's Spirit without the Word of truth because Gods' Spirit is the Spirit of truth which testifies of the truth of God's Word.

Joh 16
13,
However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

John 14
17,
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.

John 17
17,
Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.

What jumped out at me from your remarks is the lack of any leading (intimate relationship) with the Spirit given all believers. And a nullification or ignorance to the actual work Yeshua our Messiah accomplished. In regards to our sins. The contrast Messiah himself made with the two covenants stand in glaring opposition to your descriptions.

You seem to be trying to build arguments that are not there and providing scripture for an argument that does not exist and here you go again saying many false statements that I have not said or believe. This is sad for you my friend. Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

Did you have anything to share in relation to the OP?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I don't want a huge shell game about what the old covenant entails or means. We have scripture that lays it out plain enough for a 5th grader to comprehend. And as I said above, we also have the Spirit to lead us into all that God has ever spoke before, and to lead us into all the wisdom of God in our everyday lives. THIS is the message of the new covenant. An intimate relationship with the Father through faith in Yeshua, and by the power of the Spirit. Something NOT available till Yeshua hit the scene. Baruch HaShem! Yes, some had it sometimes. Others more. But now ALL have it. All who are his.

I see, so you expect me to answer all your questions and I am not allowed to ask any? If you believe a 5th grader understands what the OLD Covenant is then you should not have any trouble answering the question should you?

Only those who OBEY God have his Spirit those that do not have another Spirit that is not of God (Acts 5:32; 1 John 3:3-9)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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We who have the Spirit of God inside are the witnesses of God according to our Messiah and the Apostles.

God's WORD says you only have God's Spirit if you BELIEVE and OBEY him. Those that are still in thier SINS have neither SEEN him or KNOW him...

Acts 5
32,
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM WHO OBEY HIM.

1 John 3
6,
Whoever stays in him sins not: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNWS HIM.
7,
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8,
He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sin, meaning transgression of the law. So as to imply that it will be too late for those who have chosen to transgress the law over the Word of God. Which you believe is speaking and teaching all to observe 'the law'. Or it will be too late? What does justification have to do with 'works of the law'? Are you preaching their correlation?

Nope. I am not saying or believing any of what you have written above. We are ONLY SAVED by GRACE through FAITH and not of OURSELVES it is a GIFT of God and NOT of WORKS lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8)

However if your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS because you have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27).

If your tree has no FRUIT it will be cut down and thrown into the fire as it is written; and now also the axe is laid to the root of the trees: therefore every tree which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. ( Matthew 3:10; 7:12-23; James 2:18; 20; 26)

WHAT HAS GOD GIVEN US GRACE FOR?

Roman 1
5,
By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name:


DO WE ABOLISH GOD'S LAW THROHGH FAITH?

Romans 3
31,
Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.


We are only saved by God's GRACE through FAITH it is God's GIFT to us and there is nothing we can do to earn it. God's GRACE however is for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH and it is BY FAITH that God's ESTABLISHES His LAW in those who BELIEVE by LOVE

Romans 13
8,
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER FULFILLS THE LAW.
9, For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
10, Love works no ill to his neighbor: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

This is the NEW Covenant promise in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and the POWER of GOD to save a sinner from their SINS (Hebrew 8:10-12; Romans 1:16)

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. UNBELIEVERS will have no part in God's KINGDOM.

Now do you have anything to share in relation to the OP?
 
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The OT Scriptures are the WORD of God just like the NEW Testament scriptures. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. The OT Scriptures are the foundation of the NEW. Together they are the Word of God that we are to live by. The OT Scriptures are not done away with by the NT Scriptures they are the foundation of the NEW. . Together they are the two witnesses that make up the Word of God.

Many people do not read much of the OT scriptures so they do not know what the OLD Covenant is. If you do one does not understand what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

Before we talk about the New Covenant we need to understand the Old Covenant so there is no misunderstanding we need to define what the Old Covenant is so we are talking about the same thing.

What makes up the OLD Covenant to you and what is the purpose of the laws in the Old Covenant?
I think it has been asked what about the OT do you think we don't understand.

There is no salvation (eternal life) in the OT. The law tries to regulate the body and failed by design on purpose. No one can be righteous by the law.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

9:31
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

It does no good to discuss these passages with you. These passages are in direct opposition to the OT. We have a NEW covenant which replaces the OLD covenant entirely. The new covenant isn't a continuation of the old. It is new as in unprecedented based on promises(a gift) instead of law and performance.

The law is over and done with. Luke 16:16, Romans 10:4 and Galatians 3:19.
 
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This is partially answered above so is applicable here. The OT Scriptures are the WORD of God just like the NEW Testament scriptures. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. The OT Scriptures are the foundation of the NEW. Together they are the Word of God that we are to live by. The OT Scriptures are not done away with by the NT Scriptures they are the foundation of the NEW. Together they are the two witnesses that make up the Word of God and point to God's plans of salvation and Jesus.
So why is so much of the NT Scripture ignored? No one is trying to do away with the OT.
Before we talk about the New Covenant we need to understand the Old Covenant so there is no misunderstanding we need to define what the Old Covenant is so we are talking about the same thing.What makes up the OLD Covenant to you and what is the purpose of the laws in the Old Covenant?
What is it about the OT you don't think Shimshon, a Jew doesn't understand?
Your thinking of God's Word as one separate book they are not one separate book but two different books that bare witness one to the other. The OT is the foundation of the NT. Both have two different Covenants that both point to the same plan of salvation and comings of the Messiah. Together though they are the two great witnesses that make up the Word of God.
The OT doesn't give any details about salvation. It only speaks of the Redeemer.
God's people have always been saved the same way in both the OLD and NEW Testament, although the process was different under the two covenants. God's people in both the OLD and NEW have always only known God on a personal the same way and that is through faith.
There's no salvation (redemption; eternal life) in the OT.
 
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Not quite. I can agree with 90% of what you state here. However, what you appear to be missing is the witness of the Holy Spirit within your very being. The old pointed to the new, while the new presents salvation, it doesn't just point to it, 'it is finished'. Messiah has accomplished all that he was sent to do 'in regards to sin and justification'. All that could NOT be accomplished (in this regard) in the old HAS BEEN accomplished in the new. Why would you push off what Jesus has already accomplished?





He has come, He has accomplished the work given him to do, and he has risen with all authority. Why do you seemingly downplay or disregard this, his glory?









Messiah did a work, accomplished his goal, and it is all tied to the 'new' covenant made with Israel. Now, unlike before, the Spirit of God dwells in bodily form. Messiah as our example. "When he returns we will be like him" 1 John 3:2 Having the indwelling of the Spirit that leads us into all truth and reminds us of all that has ever been said. Where are these things in "your" witness? You just tied the old with the new to lead us to a future salvation. Not the witness I have been given by the Spirit, nor the scriptures. What jumped out at me from your remarks is the lack of any leading (intimate relationship) with the Spirit given all believers. And a nullification or ignorance to the actual work Yeshua our Messiah accomplished. In regards to our sins. The contrast Messiah himself made with the two covenants stand in glaring opposition to your descriptions.
Excellent discernment.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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So why is so much of the NT Scripture ignored? No one is trying to do away with the OT.What is it about the OT you don't think Shimshon, a Jew doesn't understand?The OT doesn't give any details about salvation. It only speaks of the Redeemer.There's no salvation (redemption; eternal life) in the OT.

None of the New Testament is ignored. The New Testament is in harmony with the Old Testament scriptures. These are the two great witnesses that make up the Word of God. The Old testament is the foundation of the NEW together they are the Word of God. We are to live by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4) Saying that the OT does not give any details of salvation is not true whatsoever. This is the reason why I asked earlier what is the OLD Covenant because if you do not KNOW what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW is?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The purpose of the law is to provide a legal source to punish sin or grant grace. The granting of grace voids the law.

Actually no this is not what God's Word says the Old Covenant is. What makes up the Old Covenant and what was the purpose of the Old Covenant laws?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I think it has been asked what about the OT do you think we don't understand.

Many people do not read much of the OT scriptures so they do not know what the OLD Covenant is. If one does not understand what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

Before we talk about the New Covenant we need to understand the Old Covenant so there is no misunderstanding we need to define what the Old Covenant is so we are talking about the same thing.

What makes up the OLD Covenant to you and what is the purpose of the laws in the Old Covenant? It is not a hard question if you know the answer to it. If one does not know the answer I can understand a reluctance to answer this question.

There is no salvation (eternal life) in the OT. The law tries to regulate the body and failed by design on purpose. No one can be righteous by the law.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

9:31
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

So in your view no one is saved in the Old Testament scriptures? God's Word would disagree with you. Actually, God's Word says that the people of the Old Testament were saved in the exact same way as we are in the NEW testament and that is by FAITH (Hebrews 11)

No one here is saying that anyone is saved by the works of the law. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves, it is a GIFT of GOD and not of WORKS lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8).

However God's Word says; if your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDEINCE then you are still in your SINS and have rejected the GIFT of God's dear Son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27).

If your tree has no fruit then it is cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:12-23) And now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees: therefore every tree which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire (Matthew 3:10).

If your FAITH does not have fruit then it is dead and will not save you (James 2:18; 20; 26)

God gives us Grace for Obedience to the FAITH not as a liscence to commit SIN...

Romans 1
5,
By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name:

If God's LAW Abolished by FAITH?

Romans 3
31,
Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

It does no good to discuss these passages with you. These passages are in direct opposition to the OT.

Actually that is not true. These passages are in harmony with the Old Testament. This is why I asked you and some others earlier what is the Old Covenant. If you do not know what the Old Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant means? As shown above already God's people are saved the same way they have always been saved and that is by FAITH (Hebrews 11). The only thing that has changed now is that the shadow have been fulfilled in Christ. (Please read the OP it seems you have not read it, linked)

We have a NEW covenant which replaces the OLD covenant entirely. The new covenant isn't a continuation of the old. It is new as in unprecedented based on promises (a gift) instead of law and performance.
The law is over and done with. Luke 16:16, Romans 10:4 and Galatians 3:19.

It seems Jesus and the apostles disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures that God's LAW is abolished. None of the scriptures you quote in Luke 16:16, Romans 10:4 and Galatians 3:19 say that God's LAW (10 commandments) is Abolished they say that God's LAW leads the SINNER to the Savior (Jesus) because we are all Sinners in need of a Savior. This is the meaning of "end of the law"

Law>>>>>>Sinner>>>>>>>>Christ (end)

If you have NO LAW then you have no KNOLEDGE of SIN. If you have no KNOWLEDGE of SIN then you have NO NEED OF A Savior. If you have NO NEED OF A SAVIOUR you have NO SALVATION. If you have NO SALVATION you are LOST and still in your SINS.

Sin will keep all who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM (Hebrews 10:26-27; James 2:8-12)

Jesus and all the Aplostles disagree with your interpretation of God's Word that God's LAW is Abolished for more scripture please click this link.....

..............

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
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None of the New Testament is ignored. The New Testament is in harmony with the Old Testament scriptures. These are the two great witnesses that make up the Word of God. The Old testament is the foundation of the NEW together they are the Word of God. We are to live by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4) Saying that the OT does not give any details of salvation is not true whatsoever. This is the reason why I asked earlier what is the OLD Covenant because if you do not KNOW what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW is?
Oh?

Please explain Luke 16:16, 24:44; Romans 8:14, 10:4; Galatians 3:19, 4:30; I Timothy 1:9; Hebrews 8:6, 10:9
 
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Many people do not read much of the OT scriptures so they do not know what the OLD Covenant is. If one does not understand what the OLD Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?
So it appears that your contention is I haven't read the OT. On what do you base such a silly idea? No one needs to understand anything more than they need a Savior. All the information necessary is found in the NT. Faith doesn't require knowledge. Faith only requires belief.
Before we talk about the New Covenant we need to understand the Old Covenant so there is no misunderstanding we need to define what the Old Covenant is so we are talking about the same thing.

What makes up the OLD Covenant to you and what is the purpose of the laws in the Old Covenant? It is not a hard question if you know the answer to it. If one does not know the answer I can understand a reluctance to answer this question.
All you're attempting to do is draw me and others away from the NT. Why? I believe the evidence is you don't believe the NT.
So in your view no one is saved in the Old Testament scriptures? God's Word would disagree with you. Actually, God's Word says that the people of the Old Testament were saved in the exact same way as we are in the NEW testament and that is by FAITH (Hebrews 11)
Sorry but that isn't the OT at least in my Bible. In-other-words the OT doesn't support your idea or you would have offered it.
No one here is saying that anyone is saved by the works of the law. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves, it is a GIFT of GOD and not of WORKS lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8).
Hmm! your words are carefully selected. your posting history proves you believe saved by faith (not true) plus keeping your version of the law aka ten commandments specifically the 4th. So you clearly promote salvation by works of the law. Jesus isn't enough.
However God's Word says; if your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDEINCE then you are still in your SINS and have rejected the GIFT of God's dear Son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27).
This is clear double speak. What fruit of obedience to what did the thief on the cross have? Romans 6:23 says salvation is a gift. You believe you must earn it. Then it's not a gift. I just don't understand why you must continue to condemn and lock others out that refuse to accept your false doctrine with Hebrews 10:26-27. Being that it's in this forum section and who you are can only mean one thing.
If your tree has no fruit then it is cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:12-23) And now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees: therefore every tree which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire (Matthew 3:10).
Here you condemn based on the fact the law isn't observed, specifically the 4th of the ten. There's no such requirement found in the NT to keep the law.
If your FAITH does not have fruit then it is dead and will not save you (James 2:18; 20; 26)

God gives us Grace for Obedience to the FAITH not as a liscence to commit SIN...
You demonstrate disrespect for the rules you said you would go by to participate here. And you want us to believe you have respect for the Scripture specifically the law which you don't keep without changing it to suit your ideas. It's no small wonder why the unregenerate are so hard to reach with the Gospel. Religion does not great favor to the Gospel.
Romans 1
5,
By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name:

If God's LAW Abolished by FAITH?

Romans 3
31,
Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.
What more proof is needed to prove you don't accept the NT.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

This is very clear the law is abolished. 2 Corinthians doesn't talk about abolishing Moses' face.
Actually that is not true. These passages are in harmony with the Old Testament. This is why I asked you and some others earlier what is the Old Covenant. If you do not know what the Old Covenant is how can you understand what the NEW Covenant means? As shown above already God's people are saved the same way they have always been saved and that is by FAITH (Hebrews 11). The only thing that has changed now is that the shadow have been fulfilled in Christ. (Please read the OP it seems you have not read it, linked)
Understanding the old covenant doesn't really matter because it has been replaced and no longer has any authority over any one including the Jew. I've read the OP and don't need any of your busy work. You're doing nothing more than demanding agreement or go to hell.
It seems Jesus and the apostles disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures that God's LAW is abolished. None of the scriptures you quote in Luke 16:16, Romans 10:4 and Galatians 3:19 say that God's LAW (10 commandments) is Abolished they say that God's LAW leads the SINNER to the Savior (Jesus) because we are all Sinners in need of a Savior. This is the meaning of "end of the law"
You refuse to admit what those passages admit looking for a specific word and phrase. Ephesians 2:15 takes care of your objection.
Law>>>>>>Sinner>>>>>>>>Christ (end)

If you have NO LAW then you have no KNOLEDGE of SIN. If you have no KNOWLEDGE of SIN then you have NO NEED OF A Savior. If you have NO NEED OF A SAVIOUR you have NO SALVATION. If you have NO SALVATION you are LOST and still in your SINS.
If sin is wrong doing, I've knowledge of sin by a leather belt and current civil laws. So the only one you can point out is the 4th which isn't about wrong doing. It's clearly about ceremonial remembrance. Since I've been delivered from the law, it was never given to gentiles and isn't found as a requirement in NT for salvation, you've got nothing for support.
Sin will keep all who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM (Hebrews 10:26-27; James 2:8-12)
Nice empty threat to bring fear and compliance to something that has no jurisdiction over the Christian. See 1 Timothy 1:9.
Yes the Apostles disagree with me by writing

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. :)
..............

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
I simply can't believe you want to say God winks at sin.
There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.
I'm sorry for you because of your refusal to believe the truth. You've been quoted all the supporting passages and disregard them.
God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
You keep trying to threaten me with eternal damnation over something that has no jurisdiction. Why? Isn't it because you refuse to accept the complete NT (covenant)?

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.[/QUOTE]Since you're not in compliance with the 4th commandment you condemn others to hell, aren't you in that same group?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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What does the law do?

Which law are you referring to?

God's LAW (10 Commandments) gives a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) You have not answered the question from the post your quoting from which was...

LoveGodsWord said:
Actually no this is not what God's Word says the Old Covenant is. What makes up the Old Covenant and what was the purpose of the Old Covenant laws?

The Old Covenant was made up of different laws that outlined God's plan of Salvation. Many do not understand the Old Covenant making it difficult for them to understand what the NEW covenant is.
 
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Oh?
Please explain Luke 16:16, 24:44; Romans 8:14, 10:4; Galatians 3:19, 4:30; I Timothy 1:9; Hebrews 8:6, 10:9

Luke 16
14,
And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15,
And he said unto them, Ye are they that justify yourselves in the sight of men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
16, The law and the prophets were until John: from that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and every man entereth violently into it.
17, But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tittle of the law to fall.

All v16 is saying is from Jesus time the Law and the Gospel is being preached and everyone is trying to enter into God's Kingdom. Jesus is teaching about God's LAW all through this Chapter and that it is the be obeyed.

CONTEXT...

v14
Jesus is teaching those breaking God's LAW; the Pharisees also, who were covetous

v17
This is the verse you left out. It is easier for HEAVEN and EARTH to pass away then for one title to the LAW to fall.

Last time I saw Heaven and EARTH have NOT passed away. Either has God's LAW.

v18 Comitting adultery

Yep Jesus is teaching to OBEY God's LAW not break it.

Matthew 19
16,
And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17,
And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
18,
He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
19, Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

More scripture? (Linked)


................

Luke 24
44, And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me.


This is why I asked you earlier if you know what the OLD Covenant is. This is speaking about the Mosiac laws written in the book of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms and were the Shadow laws for remission of SINS that all pointed to Jesus and God's plan of slavation. However if you read the OP here you would already know this.

Please read the OP (linked)

..................

Romans 8
14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


Absolutely, If you have God's Spirit you are abiding in Hos Word by FAITH. However, God's ONLY Gives the HOLY SPIRIT to those who through FAITH OBEY HIM. WALKING in the Spirit is walking IN GOD'S LAW. Look at the CONTEXT of Romans 8...

v1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
v2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
v3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
v4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
v5,
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
v6, For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
v7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
v8, So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
v9, But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
v10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
v11,
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.
v12, Therefore, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
v13,
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

This also connects to what Paul was discussing earlier..

Romans 3
31,
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

Paul is talking about establishing God's LAW by walking in God's Spirit (Faith in God's Word)

This is why it is written that God ONLY gives the Holy Sprit to those who OBEY him (Acts 5:32). THose who are still practicing SIN have neither seen him or know him. (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-8)

.................

Galations 3

19, What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made; and it was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator.
20, Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but God is one.
21, Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could make alive, verily righteousness would have been of the law.
22
, But the scriptures shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23,
But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24,
So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25, But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The purpose of God's LAW is the same as it always has been and that is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20). It is the schoolmaster that shows us that we are all SINNERS in need of a Savior. It makes nothing perfect but is the standard of God's character. It shows us that we can do nothing of ourselves to save ourselves and we need a Savior. It is God's LAW that leads the condemned SINNER who is guilty of SIN under the LAW to the foot of the CROSS where he can meet the Savior.

When we have FAITH and BELIEVE God's promises and exept Jesus and God's gift of salvation through FAITH in excepting Christ death on our behalf, we are no longer condemned by the LAW but FORGIVEN.

However if you are still practicing SIN you have rejected the gift of God's dear son and still in your SINS and have not seen him or KNOW him (Hebrews 10:26-31; 4-8; 1 John 2:3-4)

.................

Galations 4
30, Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman.


Works and Faith; flesh and spirit (Gal 4:23-31)

.................

1 Timothy 1
9, as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


The purpose of the law is to make nothing perfect it is the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20)

..................

Hebrews 8
6, But now hath he obtained a ministry the more excellent, by so much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises.


New Covenant promises. Already addressed above (see above).

..................

Hebrews 10
1,
For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh.
2, Else would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshippers, having been once cleansed, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
3, But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance made of sins year by year.
4, For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins.
5, Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, But a body didst thou prepare for me;
6, In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hadst no pleasure:
7, Then said I, Lo, I am come (In the roll of the book it is written of me) To do thy will, O God.
8, Saying above, Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein (the which are offered according to the law),
9, then hath he said, Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10, By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11, And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins:
12, but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

One of my favourite chapters and what the OP refers to. I suggest you read the OP here. This is talking about the shadow laws for remission of SIN of the Mosaic book of the Covenant (burnt offereings and sin offerings and their fulfillment in Jesus). NOT the 10 Commandments written on stone.

Please read the OP (linked)

Hope this helps.
 
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