Dispensationalist Only Galatians 1:6-9

[food4thought]

Hello brothers and sisters!

I started a thread trying to answer this question, but I suspect it was over run by non-dispensationalist posters, so I posted this one "dispensationalist only". Here is the question:

Is there more than one gospel? If so, how do we deal with this passage:

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:6-9)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and insights!

 

[Revived]

Hello! I am definitely a mid-acts dispensationalist.

God has not proclaimed only one gospel, one item of good news, down through the ages, but many. He has qualified the word “gospel” by distinctive titles, just as a woman labels her preserves to distinguish the different goodies she has put up for the winter.

The “gospel of the kingdom” and the “gospel of the grace of God” are not the same, and certainly the “gospel of the circumcision” and the “gospel of the uncircumcision” are not the same.

When we come upon the phrase “the gospel” without any qualifying title, we should immediately ask: “Which gospel?” and invariably the context will provide the answer. Luke 9:6, for example, simply states that the twelve disciples went about “preaching the gospel,” but Verse 2 of the same chapter explains how the Lord had sent them “to preach the kingdom of God” — not the cross, but the kingdom, since He, the King, was in their midst. These disciples could not have engaged in “the preaching of the cross,” as Paul later did, for it was not until at least two years later that the Lord “began” to tell them how He must suffer and die (Matt. 16:21) and Peter “began to rebuke Him” (Ver. 22) and none of the twelve even understood what He was talking about (Luke 18:34).

But whereas “the gospel of the kingdom” had been committed to the twelve while Christ was on earth, “the preaching of the cross” (as good news) and “the gospel of the grace of God” was later committed to the Apostle Paul and to us (1 Cor. 1:18; Acts 20:24).

Today we do not proclaim the kingdom rights of Christ. Rather we proclaim “redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph. 1:7).

If you are still struggling a bit, I highly suggest reading the following:
What Is The Gospel? | RevivedLife.com

 

[Revived]

More:


God chose Abraham out of all the human race and made of him the nation of Israel to be a kingdom of priests to eventually evangelize all of mankind when their Messiah sets up His kingdom. When their Messiah, Jesus Christ, came, He plainly told the twelve apostles that He was going to be killed and rise from the dead. But this was hidden from them by God, and they could not understand. The many Jews, who did not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, crucified Him, and He was buried, and He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. But the offer for Israel to receive their Messiah and kingdom remained open for a while longer if they would only believe that He was who He said He was. The twelve apostles led by Peter, preached the gospel of the kingdom to Israel, that Israel should believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, repent, and be baptized with water. If they all did this, then Jesus Christ would return and bring in the kingdom just as the Old Testament prophets had foretold. There was nothing in Peter’s message about departing from the law of Moses, to which the believing Jews adhered. Peter presented them the offer of the kingdom in the early chapters of Acts. But many in Israel still did not believe and rejected the ascended Lord Jesus Christ. But when Christ returns and purges the unbelieving two thirds (Zechariah 13:8-9), the remaining one third will all accept Him as their Messiah.

When they rejected the ascended Lord in the early chapters of Acts, God called Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles. Up until that time, God had been dealing only with Israel, with just a few exceptions. Our ascended Lord Jesus Christ committed unto Paul the dispensation of the grace of God which had always been a secret hidden by God. This was a new program with new doctrine which God would show to Paul through many revelations. Paul was shown that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ had been the perfect sacrifice that paid for all of our sin, and that He had been raised from the dead for our justification. This is the gospel of grace, the gospel of our salvation today, which had before been a mystery, hidden by God. Under this present dispensation, we are saved by grace, through faith in the gospel alone, apart from the law of Moses or any other works. Even though Peter and Paul preached different gospels, there is no conflict between them because they dispensed their gospels to two separate audiences. So they were both correct. Peter preached kingdom doctrine to the Jews in the land of Israel, but Paul preached grace doctrine to the Gentiles in other countries and to the Jews scattered among them. When the destruction of the city Jerusalem and the temple came in 70 AD, the kingdom dispensation for Israel was put on hold, until it resumes in the future tribulation. But the grace doctrine for Jew and Gentile alike found in Paul’s letters of Romans-Philemon are directly applicable for the church today.

 

[Danoh]

foodforthought, the answer to your question is just a matter of studying out what righteousness was under the Law (Prophetic Aspect of God's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery) and how that righteousness functioned, in contrast to what righteousness is, and how it functions during this Mystery Grace Age (Mystery Aspect of God's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery) .

Acts 17: 11, 12.

 

[food4thought]

More:


God chose Abraham out of all the human race and made of him the nation of Israel to be a kingdom of priests to eventually evangelize all of mankind when their Messiah sets up His kingdom. When their Messiah, Jesus Christ, came, He plainly told the twelve apostles that He was going to be killed and rise from the dead. But this was hidden from them by God, and they could not understand. The many Jews, who did not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, crucified Him, and He was buried, and He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. But the offer for Israel to receive their Messiah and kingdom remained open for a while longer if they would only believe that He was who He said He was. The twelve apostles led by Peter, preached the gospel of the kingdom to Israel, that Israel should believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, repent, and be baptized with water. If they all did this, then Jesus Christ would return and bring in the kingdom just as the Old Testament prophets had foretold. There was nothing in Peter’s message about departing from the law of Moses, to which the believing Jews adhered. Peter presented them the offer of the kingdom in the early chapters of Acts. But many in Israel still did not believe and rejected the ascended Lord Jesus Christ. But when Christ returns and purges the unbelieving two thirds (Zechariah 13:8-9), the remaining one third will all accept Him as their Messiah.

When they rejected the ascended Lord in the early chapters of Acts, God called Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles. Up until that time, God had been dealing only with Israel, with just a few exceptions. Our ascended Lord Jesus Christ committed unto Paul the dispensation of the grace of God which had always been a secret hidden by God. This was a new program with new doctrine which God would show to Paul through many revelations. Paul was shown that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ had been the perfect sacrifice that paid for all of our sin, and that He had been raised from the dead for our justification. This is the gospel of grace, the gospel of our salvation today, which had before been a mystery, hidden by God. Under this present dispensation, we are saved by grace, through faith in the gospel alone, apart from the law of Moses or any other works. Even though Peter and Paul preached different gospels, there is no conflict between them because they dispensed their gospels to two separate audiences. So they were both correct. Peter preached kingdom doctrine to the Jews in the land of Israel, but Paul preached grace doctrine to the Gentiles in other countries and to the Jews scattered among them. When the destruction of the city Jerusalem and the temple came in 70 AD, the kingdom dispensation for Israel was put on hold, until it resumes in the future tribulation. But the grace doctrine for Jew and Gentile alike found in Paul’s letters of Romans-Philemon are directly applicable for the church today.

Thank you for all that! So, with regard to my question, you are saying that, at the time Paul wrote Galatians, the only gospel acceptable to the Gentiles and the dispersion Jews was Paul's gospel, even though Peter was still proclaiming the gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews in Jerusalem? Is that an accurate summary of what you're trying to say?

 

[food4thought]

foodforthought, the answer to your question is just a matter of studying out what righteousness was under the Law (Prophetic Aspect of God's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery) and how that righteousness functioned, in contrast to what righteousness is, and how it functions during this Mystery Grace Age (Mystery Aspect of God's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery).

Hi Danoh! Thanks for the reply! I think I follow... but how exactly righteousness functioned under the Law has eluded me so far. I think that righteousness is equated with salvation, and that salvation has always been by God's grace through faith. Am I on the right track?

Acts 17: 11, 12.

I always try to emulate the Bereans when I listen to someone talk about the Bible!

 

[Revived]

Thank you for all that! So, with regard to my question, you are saying that, at the time Paul wrote Galatians, the only gospel acceptable to the Gentiles and the dispersion Jews was Paul's gospel, even though Peter was still proclaiming the gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews in Jerusalem? Is that an accurate summary of what you're trying to say?

I think it's important to realize there was a transition (and an overlap if you will) of the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 9:35, etc.) and the Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24).

The Gospel of the Kingdom was proclaimed by John the Baptizer, Jesus, and the Twelve. It was the “good news” of the coming kingdom and required repentance, baptism, and faith that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah. It was proclaimed by Jews to Jews only (with a couple of exception such as the Canaanite woman (Matthew 15.21-28) and the Roman centurion (Matthew 8.5-13). This gospel failed due to Jewish unbelief. But God will reinstate it after He completes the Church, the body of Christ (at the Rapture). A future generation of Jews (John 10.16) will embrace and believe it and fulfill Romans 11.26. In the meantime, our gospel is the “gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20.24; 1 Corinthians 15.1-4).

 

[food4thought]

I think it's important to realize there was a transition (and an overlap if you will) of the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 9:35, etc.) and the Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24).

Thanks for clarifying that. I think I may be more of an Acts 2 dispensationalist... what are the problems with that view in your opinion?

The Gospel of the Kingdom was proclaimed by John the Baptizer, Jesus, and the Twelve. It was the “good news” of the coming kingdom and required repentance, baptism, and faith that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah. It was proclaimed by Jews to Jews only (with a couple of exception such as the Canaanite woman (Matthew 15.21-28) and the Roman centurion (Matthew 8.5-13). This gospel failed due to Jewish unbelief. But God will reinstate it after He completes the Church, the body of Christ (at the Rapture). A future generation of Jews (John 10.16) will embrace and believe it and fulfill Romans 11.26. In the meantime, our gospel is the “gospel of the grace of God” (Acts 20.24; 1 Corinthians 15.1-4).

This makes sense, thank you. One other thing... you mention baptism as a part of the gospel of the Kingdom. Should we be baptized under the gospel of the grace of God?

Thanks again!

 

[Berl]

Hello brothers and sisters!

I started a thread trying to answer this question, but I suspect it was over run by non-dispensationalist posters, so I posted this one "dispensationalist only". Here is the question:

Is there more than one gospel? If so, how do we deal with this passage:

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:6-9)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and insights!

The highest hurdle to get over is exactly where is the kingdom and temple of God portrayed to us in scripture, the dispensational line that reveals its timeless dominion is 2 Corinthians 3:6, we are called fish for a reason by Christ because everything we observe above the water is distorted until we can step out (born from above change of mind) of the restrictions of the water we see God's kingdom in reflection only Colossians 2:16-17, 1 Corinthians 3:16.

So no one can reveal spiritual truth to us from the outside other than symbols/letters pointing to where it's found, our endless search must come back to where we are looking from Galatians 1:12, only one way Ephesians.

 

[food4thought]

The highest hurdle to get over is exactly where is the kingdom and temple of God portrayed to us in scripture,

My understanding is that there is the spiritual temple, which today is the body of Christ. There is also a physical temple, but it is not in existence today... it will be rebuilt before the events of Revelation 6-19 (see Revelation 11:1-2).

the dispensational line that reveals its timeless dominion is 2 Corinthians 3:6,

Not sure what you mean by this... of course "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Corinthians 3:6). But how does this apply to my question?

we are called fish for a reason by Christ because everything we observe above the water is distorted until we can step out (born from above change of mind) of the restrictions of the water

Nice analogy, I had never seen the new birth in quite that way.

we see God's kingdom in reflection only Colossians 2:16-17, 1 Corinthians 3:16.

I agree, as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 13:12;

For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

So no one can reveal spiritual truth to us from the outside other than symbols/letters pointing to where it's found, our endless search must come back to where we are looking from Galatians 1:12, only one way Ephesians.

I thought I was tracking you, but then you lost me here... are you saying that the revelation of Jesus Christ I am looking for is only found in Ephesians?

 

[Berl]

My understanding is that there is the spiritual temple, which today is the body of Christ. There is also a physical temple, but it is not in existence today... it will be rebuilt before the events of Revelation 6-19 (see Revelation 11:1-2).



Not sure what you mean by this... of course "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Corinthians 3:6). But how does this apply to my question?



I agree, as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 13:12;

For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.





I thought I was tracking you, but then you lost me here... are you saying that the revelation of Jesus Christ I am looking for is only found in Ephesians?

I just bought Ephesians up to show there is only one body and one way, those ones show Paul taught the same way Christ taught, just diverse states of understandings that's all, not two ways where one is a kingdom gospel and a Grace gospel.
The only way is to restrict 2 Cor 3:6 application to some of the OT, doing so makes the two kingdom theory plausible by keeping a portion of the parable alive historically Galatians 4:24, Psalms 78:2, Psalms 40:6. Mid Acts thinks it has escape traditional doctrine but still teach traditions futurist kingdom coming by observation, that Christ scolded the traditionalist of his day for teaching Matthew 23:13 preventing entrance to the kingdom then and now, Christ spoke Eternal divine history thats applied since the foundation of the world, the mystery being Luke 17:20-21, Ephesians 5:32, the marriage Paul likens to man and wife not gender because woman experience the same marriage within so who is to keep silent in the Church of God? that's for everyone to do when they enter to hear Christ speak to the heart in the temple made without hands..

 

[food4thought]

I just bought Ephesians up to show there is only one body and one way, those ones show Paul taught the same way Christ taught, just diverse states of understandings that's all, not two ways where one is a kingdom gospel and a Grace gospel.
The only way is to restrict 2 Cor 3:6 application to some of the OT, doing so makes the two kingdom theory plausible by keeping a portion of the parable alive historically Galatians 4:24, Psalms 78:2, Psalms 40:6. Mid Acts thinks it has escape traditional doctrine but still teach traditions futurist kingdom coming by observation, that Christ scolded the traditionalist of his day for teaching Matthew 23:13 preventing entrance to the kingdom then and now, Christ spoke Eternal divine history thats applied since the foundation of the world, the mystery being Luke 17:20-21, Ephesians 5:32, the marriage Paul likens to man and wife not gender because woman experience the same marriage within so who is to keep silent in the Church of God? that's for everyone to do when they enter to hear Christ speak to the heart in the temple made without hands..

Thank you for your thoughts, Berl, but I labeled this thread as dispensationalist only for a reason.

 

[Berl]

I never said I didn't divide, mine line is between the dead letter and the spiritual life it foreshadows in parables/symbols/similitudes/figurative precepts upon precepts following a separated mind and the two paths portrayed as siblings of history until they are reconciled back into one mind and body. Adios sorry I jumped in , now I know only certain dispensational lines need apply.

 

[Revived]

Thanks for clarifying that. I think I may be more of an Acts 2 dispensationalist... what are the problems with that view in your opinion?

The Scriptures could not be plainer that something new began with Paul’s salvation in Acts 9. Paul was the “first.” The first of what? The only sensible answer is the first member of the Church the Body of Christ (the only other group of believers God has in His Word is the redeemed nation Israel, and Israel is fallen at this point; the Church the Body of Christ had to be created in order to save Saul of Tarsus and make him Paul the Apostle). Paul was the first individual to be saved apart from Israel’s program. There had to have been a new program in Acts 9, otherwise Paul could not be saved unto eternal life. The Holy Spirit said that Paul’s salvation is our “pattern.” Are we members of the nation Israel? No. Do we belong to Israel’s program? No. According to the Holy Spirit, and according to Paul himself, Paul was saved the same way we are—apart from Israel (1 Corinthians 15:8; Galatians 1:15) and apart from her program (1 Timothy 1:13-16 cf. Matthew 12:31-32; Romans 11:11-13; 1 Corinthians 1:17 cf. Matthew 28:19-20; Romans 6:14-15 cf. Matthew 5:17-19; et cetera).

For a full study on this (because it's important), read this: When did the Church the Body of Christ begin?


One other thing... you mention baptism as a part of the gospel of the Kingdom. Should we be baptized under the gospel of the grace of God?

• From John the Baptizer to Pentecost there was one baptism–water baptism (Mark 1.4; John 1.31).
• During the period of time recorded in Acts there were two baptisms–water (Acts 2.38) and baptism with or in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1.5; 2.38; 1 Corinthians 12.13).
• At the present time there is one baptism (Ephesians 4.5). This is the baptism by which we are baptized into Christ’s death and resurrection (Romans 6.3-5) and into His body (1 Corinthians 12.13). This baptism is different from the baptism with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. At Pentecost, Christ was the Baptizer (Matthew 3.11; Acts 1.5). But for Christians, for believers of Paul’s gospel, the Holy Spirit is the baptizer. He baptizes us into Christ and his body (1 Corinthians 12.13; Titus 3.5-7).

From Paul’s teaching, the apostle to the Gentiles, the apostle of the gospel of the grace of God, and the apostle to whom Christ revealed the Church, the body of Christ, comes the knowledge of one baptism: the baptism of the Holy Spirit. By this baptism, we are identified with Christ and placed “in Christ.” God the Holy Spirit is the baptizer of believers, not a minister who dips, pours, or sprinkles water on someone. Despite the centuries of history of water baptism and all its attendant traditions, the Scriptures teach baptism of the Holy Spirit is the one legitimate baptism for the Church, the body of Christ.

Great questions!

 

[food4thought]

Thanks for clarifying that. I think I may be more of an Acts 2 dispensationalist... what are the problems with that view in your opinion?

The Scriptures could not be plainer that something new began with Paul’s salvation in Acts 9. Paul was the “first.”

Where does it say that?

The first of what? The only sensible answer is the first member of the Church the Body of Christ (the only other group of believers God has in His Word is the redeemed nation Israel,

What about the tribulation saints? The patriarchs before the Law (before and after the flood)? Those alive during the Millennial Kingdom? This is a technical point, for as long as you can establish that the Bible says Paul was the first, your argument stands.

and Israel is fallen at this point;

No argument there.

the Church the Body of Christ had to be created in order to save Saul of Tarsus and make him Paul the Apostle). Paul was the first individual to be saved apart from Israel’s program. There had to have been a new program in Acts 9, otherwise Paul could not be saved unto eternal life.

I don't think you have demonstrated this point yet.

The Holy Spirit said that Paul’s salvation is our “pattern.” Are we members of the nation Israel? No. Do we belong to Israel’s program? No. According to the Holy Spirit, and according to Paul himself, Paul was saved the same way we are—apart from Israel (1 Corinthians 15:8; Galatians 1:15) and apart from her program (1 Timothy 1:13-16 cf. Matthew 12:31-32; Romans 11:11-13; 1 Corinthians 1:17 cf. Matthew 28:19-20; Romans 6:14-15 cf. Matthew 5:17-19; et cetera).

I don't see how some of those references say what you are saying, but we have agreement on that point.

For a full study on this (because it's important), read this: When did the Church the Body of Christ begin?

I'll read this right after posting.

One other thing... you mention baptism as a part of the gospel of the Kingdom. Should we be baptized under the gospel of the grace of God?

• From John the Baptizer to Pentecost there was one baptism–water baptism (Mark 1.4; John 1.31).
• During the period of time recorded in Acts there were two baptisms–water (Acts 2.38) and baptism with or in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1.5; 2.38; 1 Corinthians 12.13).
• At the present time there is one baptism (Ephesians 4.5). This is the baptism by which we are baptized into Christ’s death and resurrection (Romans 6.3-5) and into His body (1 Corinthians 12.13). This baptism is different from the baptism with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. At Pentecost, Christ was the Baptizer (Matthew 3.11; Acts 1.5). But for Christians, for believers of Paul’s gospel, the Holy Spirit is the baptizer. He baptizes us into Christ and his body (1 Corinthians 12.13; Titus 3.5-7).

From Paul’s teaching, the apostle to the Gentiles, the apostle of the gospel of the grace of God, and the apostle to whom Christ revealed the Church, the body of Christ, comes the knowledge of one baptism: the baptism of the Holy Spirit. By this baptism, we are identified with Christ and placed “in Christ.” God the Holy Spirit is the baptizer of believers, not a minister who dips, pours, or sprinkles water on someone. Despite the centuries of history of water baptism and all its attendant traditions, the Scriptures teach baptism of the Holy Spirit is the one legitimate baptism for the Church, the body of Christ.

I have to disagree here. Paul said he baptized Corinthians (1 Corinthians 1:13-17). Verse 17 indicates to me that he was not talking about Spirit baptism.

Great questions!

Thank you. I am not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just trying to clarify what you are saying and what I believe right now.

 

[food4thought]

I'll read this right after posting.

I see now where you get the idea that Paul was the first. I disagree with that interpretation of the translation. I agree that it means "first", just not first in order... it means he was the first (IOW, greatest, foremost) of all sinners.

 

[Revived]

I would suggest commenting/asking questions on his site. I'm still learning myself so it's often difficult for me to go back and forth in a q/a format (partially because I have limited time).

 

[food4thought]

I would suggest commenting/asking questions on his site. I'm still learning myself so it's often difficult for me to go back and forth in a q/a format (partially because I have limited time).

Thank you for your thoughts and insights, Revived. I don't always have time for in depth discussions here, either.

God bless you.

 

[Danoh]

F4t, concerning what Paul means in....

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

If you will carefully read through that chapter, you will note he has been addressing various Dispensational issues.

Then, having addressed those, he touches on their basis or origin - his calling. Which is what that passage is summing up.

When did this longsuffering begin?

Lets just ask Paul.

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

God TEMPORARILY interrupted His pending wrath.

9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Not only does this righteousness which is of faith include its own unique means of godly edifying committed to Paul's trust as the very doctrine or instruction in righteousness under Grace, but it is the very doctrine or instruction that some have swerved from in 1 Timothy.

He is addressing Dispensational issues.

1 Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

And that began with this odd, new, unexpected but by God, one Apostle too many, to Israel's already established Twelve Apostles to Israel (Matt. 19: 28; Acts 1:21, 22; Acts 2:14) - this seemingly odd new Apostle - get this - of Israel's very enemies - an Apostle of - the Gentiles....Rom. 11:13.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Much more could be laid out on this.

My actual point is the need to study these things out, not via one isolated word and or passage, rather, in light of the whole of the particular writer's perspectice.

In the Apostle Paul's case - in light of Romans thru Philemon. For...

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

Rom. 14: 5 towards you - in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[food4thought]

Hi Danoh,, thanks for the reply.

F4t, concerning what Paul means in....

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The NASB, the translation I prefer for serious study because it is excruciatingly literal, renders it this way:

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
(1 Timothy 1:15-16 NASB)

You can see how they read the passage and how it does not support the interpretation you place upon it.

If you will carefully read through that chapter, you will note he has been addressing various Dispensational issues.

Then, having addressed those, he touches on their basis or origin - his calling. Which is what that passage is summing up.

When did this longsuffering begin?

Lets just ask Paul.

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

God TEMPORARILY interrupted His pending wrath.

9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

I see God's wrath as being held off since Adam, not just since the Kingdom was suspended... but I see how you could interpret it that way. Interesting.

Not only does this righteousness which is of faith include its own unique means of godly edifying committed to Paul's trust as the very doctrine or instruction in righteousness under Grace, but it is the very doctrine or instruction that some have swerved from in 1 Timothy.

He is addressing Dispensational issues.

1 Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

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Agreed. They are seeking to bring the church back under the Law.​

And that began with this odd, new, unexpected but by God, one Apostle too many, to Israel's already established Twelve Apostles to Israel (Matt. 19: 28; Acts 1:21, 22; Acts 2:14) - this seemingly odd new Apostle - get this - of Israel's very enemies - an Apostle of - the Gentiles....Rom. 11:13.

OK, but I see the gospel beginning with the twelve in Jerusalem, with it's first outpouring of the Spirit in Acts 2. Paul and the twelve preached the same gospel, just with different emphasis' due to the different audiences. JMO.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Right.

Much more could be laid out on this.

My actual point is the need to study these things out, not via one isolated word and or passage, rather, in light of the whole of the particular writer's perspective.

Definitely.

In the Apostle Paul's case - in light of Romans thru Philemon. For...

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

Amen.

Rom. 14: 5 towards you - in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

God bless you.

The LORD bless you, and keep you;
The LORD make His face shine on you, And be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance on you, And give you peace.'
(Numbers 6:24-26 NASB)