Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved?

[ViaCrucis]

Why or why not? Please explain with the support of the scripture.


For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB)

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (Romans 6:1-2 NASB)

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? (Romans 6:15-16 NASB)

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9 NASB)

Define "deliberately practice sin". If I screw up two times, does God's grace no longer cover me? Three times? How about a hundred times? A thousand times? What about ten thousand times?

"Now the Law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more." - Romans 5:20

The Law reveals sin, when we stand before the righteousness of God's Law we find ourselves condemned in our sin, helpless, and our mouths shut (Romans 3:19); but hear the Apostle's word here, "Where sin abounds grace abounds all the more", because God's mercy is greater than our sin. What Christ has done for us covers all our sin. Indeed, Christ having died died for the sins of the whole world. We, all of us, stand condemned under God's Law as wretches and sinners. So then, our salvation can be by nothing other than God's great mercy, which is precisely what the Apostle has written, "For by grace you have been saved, through faith" freely we have been justified, since even by the one man's trespass came condemnation to all, so has the one Man's righteous act justified all. And it is only in this grace that we stand justified before God with a righteousness that is not our own, it is instead the righteousness which is by faith--the very righteousness of Jesus Christ Himself given to us as pure gift.

So then, should we say "If grace abounds I shall go on sinning?" Heaven forbid, we instead look to the free forgiveness we have in Christ which we have received in Baptism by which we have been buried with Christ and died with Christ that we might have life and resurrection in Christ--and now regard ourselves alive to God and dead to sin.

Reckon Law as Law--condemning our sin.
Reckon Grace as Grace--covering our sin.

Even as the Law condemns us in our sin, in the Gospel we have forgiveness of our sin--all sin, every sin, all day, every day, every hour. By the grace of God, by His great mercy, ministering to us through faith to appropriate the great and wonderful and all sufficient work of Jesus Christ to freely justify us.

Will you sin? Yes, so repent.
Are you forgiven? Yes, so rejoice.

Know the Law as Law.
Know the Gospel as Gospel.

Know that you are indeed a great sinner, and know that you are forgiven and made righteous by the righteousness of Christ Jesus your Lord and Savior. Tremble on account of your sins, and cling to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[mark kennedy]

According to your testimony - you were not "saved" until you were filled with the Spirit.

That's right, having believed you were marked with a seal. The Holy Spirit of promise Rom. 1:13. That's how you know your saved, God's Spirit witnesses to you spirit that you are a child of God.

What informed you that your were then "filled with the Spirit" where you were not before - even though, as you say, you had "turned your life over to Christ"?

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a one time event, compared by Peter to the Exodus Red Sea crossing. The filling of the Holy Spirit or being in the Spirit can happen anytime subsequent to salvation.

Was it that you spoke in tongues or some other manifestation of the Spirit?

Every believer receives a gift of the Holy Spirit, literally a gift of grace. Its for the building up of the body of Christ, the real evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are the fruit of the Spirit.

I.e. - what constitutes becoming "Spirit filled" in your understanding?

You are sort of asking the same question

 

[Lily of Valleys]

Hello Lily of valleys.

If Christians commit sin are they saved?

We would need to be a perfect, sinless Christian, to meet that mark.

In this world, is it possible to ever be free from sin, to be a perfect Christian?

I have noticed others becoming more godly over time, never have I encountered a sinless Christian. There are not many folk in heaven if we hold to the idea, that we must be perfect to enter heaven.

Hello klutedavid.

The question is not are Christians saved if they commit sin. The question is whether professed Christians are saved if they know that they are committing a sin but still deliberately commit the sin, over and over again, with no intention to make effort to eliminate that sin from their life.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hello klutedavid.

The question is not are Christians saved if they commit sin. The question is whether professed Christians are saved if they know that they are committing a sin but still deliberately commit the sin, over and over again, with no intention to make effort to eliminate that sin from their life.

If a person has no remorse over their sins, then they are throwing away their faith. But when and where that has happened isn't really up to us--if I see my brother or sister sinning and they actively say "I know that I am sinning and that is okay, and I refuse to repent" then pointing out--with compassion and love--that that road is dangerous, that is one thing. But it would be a very different thing to presume the salvation or question the salvation of my brother or sister, as no one appointed me judge of the quick and the dead, only the Lord is Judge.

Yes, we can shipwreck our faith if we deliberately throw our faith away and actively aim toward faithlessness and apostasy.

And just as their is a danger in that, there is another danger--the danger of losing focus on the Gospel; if we are preaching that our standing before God depends on us, on our getting things right, on our obedience to God's commandments, on how well we avoid this or that sin then we in the very same way throw away our faith and risk shipwrecking it in the exact same way.

To the one who boasts of his sin, preach the Law.
To the one who trembles because of his sin, preach the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I once went through Matthew (who has by far the most passages on judgement) to see what people were judged for. Here's my summary:

7 uselessness (no fruit, no taste, bad fruit)
7 reject Jesus and message, no faith, etc
2 failing to forgive
2 hyperbole (call someone fool, fail to amputate)
2 refuse to repent
1 going through broad gate
1 seeking to save your life
1 speaking against Holy Spirit
1 being evil rather than righteous
1 causing a child to stumble
1 shut others out of kingdom
1 hypocrites
1 mistreat others

Notice that Jesus is more concerned about positive impact (fruit) than sin, and the sins on the list involve causing problems for other people, not things like sexual impurity.

Sin creates problems, and we should deal with them. But on what separates us from God, I'd rather rely on Jesus' teaching. Jesus teachings that God will forgive anything except the sin against the Holy Spirit, even if we do the same thing seven times a day.

I have not gone through the Gospels to make a statistics on what Jesus judged for, but you might want to consider adding the following verse in your list said by Jesus that includes the sexually immoral as those who will be outside of the Holy Jerusalem when Jesus returns:

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. (Revelation 22:14-15 NKJV)

 

[The Times]

Hello klutedavid.

The question is not are Christians saved if they commit sin. The question is whether professed Christians are saved if they know that they are committing a sin but still deliberately commit the sin, over and over again, with no intention to make effort to eliminate that sin from their life.

This would be a wilful and deliberate act of denying Jesus. If a Christian has absolutely no regard for Jesus as the head of the Church, or atleast what he instructed, then there must be parting of ways. If the person still is claiming that they deserve grace, then someone needs to inform them that they are deceiving themselves. It would be best for that individual or individuals to leave, and leave meaning to not use the name of Jesus in vain, as now this person is flagrantly defaming the Lord if he/she continues, by also bringing great harm to the body of Christ.

Paul and the Apostles outed these individuals. Therefore they need to be shown the door.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:19)

In other words the Apostle John is saying that we had to kick them OUT.

Jesus instructs elders of His Church as follows.......when

Dealing With Sin in the Church

15“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. (Matthew 18:15-17)

If Church elders accept them, then they are unbecoming of Christ's disciples and are therefore in a fallen state, that is, they now are disfrenchised from Christ's Grace, because the TRUTH is NOT in them, because they now are regarded by God as having pleasure in unrighteousness.

Grace is not a RIGHT, rather it is a PRIVILEGE.

 

[SBC]

Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved? <--OP

What SIN did Can a person PRACTICE before becoming saved?

Jews have LAWS.
Violation of their LAWS is a SIN unto them.
Can a Jew PRACTICE violating their LAWS?
Yes

What are a Gentiles SIN before becoming SAVED?

Not PRACTICING Jewish Laws????

IF NOT....What does a Gentile PRACTICE before becoming SAVED?


God Bless,
SBC

 

[The Times]

Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved? <--OP

What SIN did Can a person PRACTICE before becoming saved?

Jews have LAWS.
Violation of their LAWS is a SIN unto them.
Can a Jew PRACTICE violating their LAWS?
Yes

What are a Gentiles SIN before becoming SAVED?

Not PRACTICING Jewish Laws????

IF NOT....What does a Gentile PRACTICE before becoming SAVED?


God Bless,
SBC

Ancient Jews washed their hands of individuals who wilfully continued to break the law.

They were shown the door........OUT!........OUT!......right OUT!

That's what happened.

As for Christians, all need to be made aware that......

Grace is not a RIGHT, rather it is a PRIVILEGE.

 

[Catherineanne]

It looks like there are an awful lot of Pelagians in this thread.

Pelagianism - Wikipedia

 

[Catherineanne]

Grace is not a RIGHT, rather it is a PRIVILEGE.

In fact it is neither. Grace is a gift.

 

[Lily of Valleys]

I've gone through a lot of changes personally, in my life though, heart changes, mind changes...

I've had to put away much of my past behavior and who I was in the past, but... Cigarettes, didn't change...

Am I gonna go to hell, as an unrepentant sinner, who habitually sins...

(Btw, I think we all do and we all are (unrepentant sinners who habitually sin, or just people who habitually sin at least...)

God Bless!

You wouldn't have brought up cigarettes if you didn't think it is a problem, would you?

 

[The Times]

In fact it is neither. Grace is a gift.

It is a privillage. Christians need to keep their garments clean, otherwise it is OUT! OUT! OUT!

 

[SBC]

Ancient Jews washed their hands of individuals who wilfully continued to break the law.

They were shown the door........OUT!........OUT!......right OUT!

That's what happened.

As for Christians, all need to be made aware that......

Grace is not a RIGHT, rather it is a PRIVILEGE.

Thank you for addressing the Jews.
Thank you for addressing Grace from God.

You omitted to address the Christians...

What SIN does a Gentile PRACTICE before becoming SAVED?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

It is a privillage. Christians need to keep their garments clean, otherwise it is OUT! OUT! OUT!

Thank for your comment, but it does not address, a Gentiles SIN, before receiving Salvation.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Define "deliberately practice sin". If I screw up two times, does God's grace no longer cover me? Three times? How about a hundred times? A thousand times? What about ten thousand times?

"Now the Law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more." - Romans 5:20

The Law reveals sin, when we stand before the righteousness of God's Law we find ourselves condemned in our sin, helpless, and our mouths shut (Romans 3:19); but hear the Apostle's word here, "Where sin abounds grace abounds all the more", because God's mercy is greater than our sin. What Christ has done for us covers all our sin. Indeed, Christ having died died for the sins of the whole world. We, all of us, stand condemned under God's Law as wretches and sinners. So then, our salvation can be by nothing other than God's great mercy, which is precisely what the Apostle has written, "For by grace you have been saved, through faith" freely we have been justified, since even by the one man's trespass came condemnation to all, so has the one Man's righteous act justified all. And it is only in this grace that we stand justified before God with a righteousness that is not our own, it is instead the righteousness which is by faith--the very righteousness of Jesus Christ Himself given to us as pure gift.

So then, should we say "If grace abounds I shall go on sinning?" Heaven forbid, we instead look to the free forgiveness we have in Christ which we have received in Baptism by which we have been buried with Christ and died with Christ that we might have life and resurrection in Christ--and now regard ourselves alive to God and dead to sin.

Reckon Law as Law--condemning our sin.
Reckon Grace as Grace--covering our sin.

Even as the Law condemns us in our sin, in the Gospel we have forgiveness of our sin--all sin, every sin, all day, every day, every hour. By the grace of God, by His great mercy, ministering to us through faith to appropriate the great and wonderful and all sufficient work of Jesus Christ to freely justify us.

Will you sin? Yes, so repent.
Are you forgiven? Yes, so rejoice.

Know the Law as Law.
Know the Gospel as Gospel.

Know that you are indeed a great sinner, and know that you are forgiven and made righteous by the righteousness of Christ Jesus your Lord and Savior. Tremble on account of your sins, and cling to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

-CryptoLutheran

Confusing.

What SINS "WERE" you forgiven ?
What SINS "WERE" not covered ?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[The Times]

3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the people of sin are revealed, those people doomed to destruction. 4 they will oppose and will exalt themselves over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that they set themselves up in God’s temple, that is the temple of the body, by proclaiming themselves to be of God (Christians).

They ( professing Christians) perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Man of Sin is properly rendered People of Sin. If you want to contexualise it more accurately......Professing Christians of Sin and in willful Sin.

The word Man in the Greek is......

◄ 444. anthrópos ►
Strong's Concordance
anthrópos: a man, human, mankind
Original Word: ἄνθρωπος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: anthrópos
Phonetic Spelling: (anth'-ro-pos)
Short Definition: a man, one of the human race
Definition: a man, one of the human race.
HELPS Word-studies
444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men (Mt 4:19, 12:12, etc.).

444 (anthrōpos) relates to both genders (male and female) as both are created in the image of God – each equally vested with individual personhood and destiny (cf. Gal 3:28). Accordingly, the Bible uses 444 (ánthrōpos) of a specific man, woman, or class (type, group) of people – i.e. mankind in general (inclusive of every man, woman and child; see also 1 Cor 11:7). (435 /anḗr specifically refers to a male and 1135 /gynḗ to a female.)

 

[SBC]

3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the people of sin are revealed, those people doomed to destruction. 4 they will oppose and will exalt themselves over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, that is the temple of the body, by proclaiming themselves to be of God (Christians).

They ( professing Christians) perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Man of Sin is properly rendered People of Sin. If you want to contexualise it more accurately......Professing Christians of Sin and in willful Sin.

Man in the Greek is......

◄ 444. anthrópos ►
Strong's Concordance
anthrópos: a man, human, mankind
Original Word: ἄνθρωπος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: anthrópos
Phonetic Spelling: (anth'-ro-pos)
Short Definition: a man, one of the human race
Definition: a man, one of the human race.
HELPS Word-studies
444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men (Mt 4:19, 12:12, etc.).

444 (anthrōpos) relates to both genders (male and female) as both are created in the image of God – each equally vested with individual personhood and destiny (cf. Gal 3:28). Accordingly, the Bible uses 444 (ánthrōpos) of a specific man, woman, or class (type, group) of people – i.e. mankind in general (inclusive of every man, woman and child; see also 1 Cor 11:7). (435 /anḗr specifically refers to a male and 1135 /gynḗ to a female.)

Question ~
What SIN do Gentiles PRACTICE before becoming SAVED.

And your answer is ~
Christians PRACTICE not loving the Lord?

The Scripture you quoted is not a PRACTICE, but rather a REFUSAL.

How does a Gentile PRACTICE SIN, before becoming SAVED?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[The Times]

Thank you for addressing the Jews.
Thank you for addressing Grace from God.

You omitted to address the Christians...

What SIN does a Gentile PRACTICE before becoming SAVED?

God Bless,
SBC

No one living in wilful sin is saved, no matter what they claim.

The People (Anthropos) of Sin spoken of by Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2.3 are professing Christians who think that they abound in Grace, whist setting themselves up as the temple of God before the world. The reality is, that they are fallen and thereby practise falsehood and also deceive themselves into thinking that their wilful sinful actions should be inclusive within the body of Christ and therefore are tolerated by God. This is part and parcel of the falling away from the true faith and the strong delusion that God allows to manifest in them, so they continue to serve a lie.

God needs them to continue living the lie, thinking that they are the temple of God, so that it warrants God to destroy them. I say oh well.....too bad!

The Church elders need to out them, otherwise they are also taking part in their flagerant sins.

 

[The Times]

Thank for your comment, but it does not address, a Gentiles SIN, before receiving Salvation.

God Bless,
SBC

You mean a person who is not Christian.

 

[The Times]

Thank for your comment, but it does not address, a Gentiles SIN, before receiving Salvation.

God Bless,
SBC

You need to elaborate the question more, so I can understand what you are really asking. Please elaborate in detail what you mean.