If we are saved by faith why do some verses of the Bible seem to state that we are not?

Neostarwcc

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Okay so I had a thought. Throughout the Bible the Bible says that we're saved by faith. Yet in some parts of the Bible it says that we are not saved by faith alone. In John 6:39-6:40 Jesus says:

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

And also in John 10:28-29:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

And also in John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.

These verses prove that we are saved by faith and that those who believe in Jesus WILL be saved. But, there are also other verses in the Bible that Jesus said that trouble me and seem to disprove that we are saved by faith like:

Matthew 7:21:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 25:31-46 (Too long to put in here)

Matthew 19:17:

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 6:15:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Matthew 19:17 seems to say that we must keep the commandments to be saved and then he lists what commandments he's talking about in the next two verses.

Matthew 7:21 seems to say that only those who do the will of the Father will be saved. Which confuses many people until the will of the Father is explained in John 6:39-40. The will of the father is that everyone who believes in Jesus will have eternal life and never be lost. Jesus will not lose a single one of these people so the "Many" people who are not saved in Matthew 7:21 are those who don't believe in Jesus right?


Matthew 6:15 seems to add the additional requirement of forgiving others to salvation. Making Jesus's words in John 6:39-40 basically a lie because Jesus said that all believers would be saved and would be eternally secure.

Matthew 25:31-46 seems to say that works are required for salvation. Yet this is contrary to Pauls words in Ephesians 2:9 when he says "Not by works lest any man should boast". Also in James 2:20 James says "Faith without works is dead" which seems to back up Jesus's words in Matthew 25:31-46. That a true faith would have works and therefore those who are not saved in those verses did not have a true faith. So that could be the answer to my problem on these verses but, what about the others?
 

PamCAID

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All these questions are answered when you know who the intended audience is of the books you're quoting from!

We in the Church Age are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, therefore have a guaranteed inheritance, therefore have no requirement to obey commandments, persevere, bear fruit, etc.

Outside the Church Age no one is ever indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He's free to come and go. Therefore, they must obey, persevere, bear fruit, etc.

This huge difference is how you divide the Bible: us, the sealed and secure Church on one side and everyone else on the other.

Paul was our apostle given our gospel of salvation by faith alone. The Eleven had the gospel of the Kingdom/gospel of repentance. Paul's 13 signed epistles contain our doctrine.

God bless!
 
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Almost there

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Okay so I had a thought. Throughout the Bible the Bible says that we're saved by faith. Yet in some parts of the Bible it says that we are not saved by faith alone. In John 6:39-6:40 Jesus says:

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

And also in John 10:28-29:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

And also in John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.

These verses prove that we are saved by faith and that those who believe in Jesus WILL be saved. But, there are also other verses in the Bible that Jesus said that trouble me and seem to disprove that we are saved by faith like:

Matthew 7:21:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 25:31-46 (Too long to put in here)

Matthew 19:17:

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 6:15:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Matthew 19:17 seems to say that we must keep the commandments to be saved and then he lists what commandments he's talking about in the next two verses.

Matthew 7:21 seems to say that only those who do the will of the Father will be saved. Which confuses many people until the will of the Father is explained in John 6:39-40. The will of the father is that everyone who believes in Jesus will have eternal life and never be lost. Jesus will not lose a single one of these people so the "Many" people who are not saved in Matthew 7:21 are those who don't believe in Jesus right?


Matthew 6:15 seems to add the additional requirement of forgiving others to salvation. Making Jesus's words in John 6:39-40 basically a lie because Jesus said that all believers would be saved and would be eternally secure.

Matthew 25:31-46 seems to say that works are required for salvation. Yet this is contrary to Pauls words in Ephesians 2:9 when he says "Not by works lest any man should boast". Also in James 2:20 James says "Faith without works is dead" which seems to back up Jesus's words in Matthew 25:31-46. That a true faith would have works and therefore those who are not saved in those verses did not have a true faith. So that could be the answer to my problem on these verses but, what about the others?
It is possible that that many are saved, but perhaps all may not enter the kingdom of heaven. I am getting the feeling that there will be "pecking orders" in the afterlife. That is, many will be saved, but not all equally. It's where the Bema judgement comes in, I think.

There is a lot more to eternity than just the binary "heaven vs hell" (if you are ECT) or "Eternal life vs Death" (if you are CI)
 
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Neostarwcc

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All these questions are answered when you know who the intended audience is of the books you're quoting from!

We in the Church Age are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, therefore have a guaranteed inheritance, therefore have no requirement to obey commandments, persevere, bear fruit, etc.

Outside the Church Age no one is ever indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He's free to come and go. Therefore, they must obey, persevere, bear fruit, etc.

This huge difference is how you divide the Bible: us, the sealed and secure Church on one side and everyone else on the other.

Paul was our apostle given our gospel of salvation by faith alone. The Eleven had the gospel of the Kingdom/gospel of repentance. Paul's 13 signed epistles contain our doctrine.

God bless!


That's an interesting view it would explain why the apostles kept the Sabbath and why people today do not bother. It also explains why James would say "Faith without works is dead" and why Paul says "We are not saved by works" because James was one of the 11 and Paul became an apostle afterwords. But, very interesting view I'd have to say I agree with you!
 
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Neostarwcc

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It is possible that that many are saved, but perhaps all may not enter the kingdom of heaven. I am getting the feeling that there will be "pecking orders" in the afterlife. That is, many will be saved, but not all equally. It's where the Bema judgement comes in, I think.

There is a lot more to eternity than just the binary "heaven vs hell" (if you are ECT) or "Eternal life vs Death" (if you are CI)

That's interesting too. Most Christians today believe in Heaven or Hell and there's no in between you either go to heaven or hell. But, Jesus could mean that there are people who are saved from hell who won't enter the kingdom of heaven but will enter another place. Maybe limbo? Idk. Didn't all dead people go to limbo before Jesus came and after Jesus came they entered Heaven with him? So why don't people go to limbo anymore and if they do who does? There's another question.
 
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Tom 1

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Okay so I had a thought. Throughout the Bible the Bible says that we're saved by faith. Yet in some parts of the Bible it says that we are not saved by faith alone. In John 6:39-6:40 Jesus says:

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

And also in John 10:28-29:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

And also in John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.

These verses prove that we are saved by faith and that those who believe in Jesus WILL be saved. But, there are also other verses in the Bible that Jesus said that trouble me and seem to disprove that we are saved by faith like:

Matthew 7:21:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 25:31-46 (Too long to put in here)

Matthew 19:17:

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 6:15:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Matthew 19:17 seems to say that we must keep the commandments to be saved and then he lists what commandments he's talking about in the next two verses.

Matthew 7:21 seems to say that only those who do the will of the Father will be saved. Which confuses many people until the will of the Father is explained in John 6:39-40. The will of the father is that everyone who believes in Jesus will have eternal life and never be lost. Jesus will not lose a single one of these people so the "Many" people who are not saved in Matthew 7:21 are those who don't believe in Jesus right?


Matthew 6:15 seems to add the additional requirement of forgiving others to salvation. Making Jesus's words in John 6:39-40 basically a lie because Jesus said that all believers would be saved and would be eternally secure.

Matthew 25:31-46 seems to say that works are required for salvation. Yet this is contrary to Pauls words in Ephesians 2:9 when he says "Not by works lest any man should boast". Also in James 2:20 James says "Faith without works is dead" which seems to back up Jesus's words in Matthew 25:31-46. That a true faith would have works and therefore those who are not saved in those verses did not have a true faith. So that could be the answer to my problem on these verses but, what about the others?

Here’s an interesting article about the commitment involved in saving faith, revisiting Paul’s teaching on salvation: http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/everything-you-know-about-gospel-paul-probably-wrong
 
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That's interesting too. Most Christians today believe in Heaven or Hell and there's no in between you either go to heaven or hell. But, Jesus could mean that there are people who are saved from hell who won't enter the kingdom of heaven but will enter another place. Maybe limbo? Idk. Didn't all dead people go to limbo before Jesus came and after Jesus came they entered Heaven with him? So why don't people go to limbo anymore and if they do who does? There's another question.
I don't know that it is limbo. I think it gets into the "varying degrees of reward." Think of it as a bunch of German Jews on a boat to the US in 1939. Some had been sending money for years to a bank account here. Others, not quite so much, while others got on the boat with nothing but the clothing on their back. When they arrive, some will go to quite posh living standards while others will start from scratch with nothing. And others, somewhere in between.

There is the GWTJ, and there is the Judgement seat of Christ. For all the believers, they're "in", and now get to find out what their reward is.

I'm saying this at a very high level because I've just started really studying it. I'm embarrassed that I've been a Christian this long and it's never been a topic of study for me (or any church I've attended). That is a problem. And the internet seems to be solving it.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Okay so I had a thought. Throughout the Bible the Bible says that we're saved by faith. Yet in some parts of the Bible it says that we are not saved by faith alone. In John 6:39-6:40 Jesus says:

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

And also in John 10:28-29:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

And also in John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.

These verses prove that we are saved by faith and that those who believe in Jesus WILL be saved. But, there are also other verses in the Bible that Jesus said that trouble me and seem to disprove that we are saved by faith like:

Matthew 7:21:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 25:31-46 (Too long to put in here)

Matthew 19:17:

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 6:15:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Matthew 19:17 seems to say that we must keep the commandments to be saved and then he lists what commandments he's talking about in the next two verses.

Matthew 7:21 seems to say that only those who do the will of the Father will be saved. Which confuses many people until the will of the Father is explained in John 6:39-40. The will of the father is that everyone who believes in Jesus will have eternal life and never be lost. Jesus will not lose a single one of these people so the "Many" people who are not saved in Matthew 7:21 are those who don't believe in Jesus right?


Matthew 6:15 seems to add the additional requirement of forgiving others to salvation. Making Jesus's words in John 6:39-40 basically a lie because Jesus said that all believers would be saved and would be eternally secure.

Matthew 25:31-46 seems to say that works are required for salvation. Yet this is contrary to Pauls words in Ephesians 2:9 when he says "Not by works lest any man should boast". Also in James 2:20 James says "Faith without works is dead" which seems to back up Jesus's words in Matthew 25:31-46. That a true faith would have works and therefore those who are not saved in those verses did not have a true faith. So that could be the answer to my problem on these verses but, what about the others?
You are misunderstanding true saving faith as something that can be distinct from works, which it cannot be (even Luther said they go together like light and heat), and what you choose to do is ordered by what you really believe, at least at that moment, and to the degree that you do believe. To believe in health food is to spurn junk food. If you believed clicking on the Reply link would get you a virus you would not do it, but if you believed it would result in a 1,000 gift you likely would.

Saving faith is not mere intellectual assent, nor simply belief in the promise of the Christ to give eternal life to those who believe, abstract from the one who gave it, but faith in a person called the Lord Jesus, and thus salvific faith will result in changes in heart and life which correspond to the will of the one you believe, relative to the light and grace given you.

This salvific faith is from the heart, a penitent, contrite heart, thus it can be called repentant faith. And "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalms 34:18)

Thus while it is the faith that is behind works which purifies the heart (Acts 15:7-9) in the washing of regeneration of God's mercy (Titus 3:5) and and appropriates justification (Romans 4:5,6) yet since works testify to faith, (1 Thessalonians 1:4-10; 1 Hebrews 6:9,10; James 2:18) then eternal life can be promised to those who belief.

In Mark 2, the Lord asked,

Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) (Mark 2:9-10)

The Lord could say either since one effected the other. Likewise, the gift of salvation was promised to those in Acts 2:38 if they would repent and believe on the same was essentially promised to those in Acts 10:43 (not by works..by the "washing of regeneration": Titus 3:5)

Yet Cornelius was not yet saved before Peter preached to them and they believed. And what they believed was,

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

That was it, no baptism as yet, and indeed they did believe, with God giving "them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:8-9)

However, there is no contradiction with Acts 2:38, and no need to attribute a unique condition of heart to Cornelius and company if we understand what Peter said in Acts 2:28 and 10:43 as both being a call to faith, this being what purifies the heart. Since real faith effects confession, then if one confesses the Lord Jesus from the heart then it means one believes, and the promise is made to those who believe as well as to those who works of faith. For since faith saves but is manifested by works of faith, then those who do the latter must have the former, and thus the promise is made "whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" as well as, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Romans 10:9-11)

It is only such faith that will confess the Lord Jesus, which baptism formally does, that is salvific, But since it is actually the faith behind the work that justifies - that appropriates the purifying their hearts, the "washing of regeneration" - then the promise can be made, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43) And which was realized.

Such souls are washed, sanctified, and "justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:11) And thus on Christ's account such are "accepted in the Beloved" and made to "sit together with Him" in Heaven, (Eph. 1:6; 2:6) which will be realized when they die in overcoming, saving faith, (Rv. 3:21) or at His return. (1Ths. 4:17)

However, it cannot be the confession that merits justification, since it is faith which is counted for righteousness, (Rm. 4:5) nor does the change that regeneration effects makes them good enough to be with God (unless simply being forgiven is enough and thus maintaining a sinless state would do it), as in Roman Catholicism in which one is formally justified by his own actual holiness by baptism, and purification/perfection of character is required to enter Heaven (usually thru Purgatory). Which even Paul confessed he lacked, and though he expressed that to be presently absent from the body was to be present with the Lord, (2 Corinthians 5:8; Phil 1:21-22) yet he strove to be in this life as much as a resurrected believer will be, which event he looked forward to as being what would finally deal with his "vile body," (Phil 3:8-21)

In reiteration and in addition, as far as what appropriates justification, one is only saved by grace thru faith, which purifies the heart (Acts 15:9) and is counted for righteousness (Romans 4:5) and renders one accepted in the Beloved (on His account) and positionally seated together which their Lord in Heaven, (Ephesians 1:6; 2:6) from where they await the Lord's return and His changing of our "vile body," that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body." (Philippians 3:21)

However, this saving justifying faith, is a faith which effects obedience by the Spirit in word and in deed, in heart and in life, whereby "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, (Romans 8:4) insofar as we do. And which obedience includes Godly sorrow, penitent confession of sin that the believer is convicted of.

The appeal to the believer is to produce fruit consistent with faith, as a consequence of being accepted in the Beloved (on His account), to be practically (in heart and deed) as they are positionally in Christ, to be as much conformed to the Lord Jesus in this life as we can be, and will be in the resurrection. (Philippians 3:7-21)

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:25)

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. (Colossians 3:1-4)

But which progressive practical sanctification is not the cause of the sinner's justification and acceptance in Christ, but testifies to such being a believer, evidencing "things which accompany salvation," (Hebrews 6:9) and fit to be rewarded. (Revelation 3:4) For this faith, as manifested in said obedience, God will recompense (Hebrews 10:35) under grace, even though it is God who motivates and enables all obedience, (Philippians 1:12,13) while the only thing we can and must take credit for it our disobedience.

In contrast to this salvation by effectual faith, evidencing meritorious works but which are not the cause of justification (though works of faith by the Spirit justify one as being a believer, since they go together like light and heat), is salvation by grace thru works, as in Roman Catholicism, in which by grace one is actually made good enough to be with God via the act of baptism, even without the required personal wholehearted repentant faith. (Acts 8:38; 8:36,37)

However, since the carnal nature remains and few successfully attain to complete victory over any attachment to sin and perfection of character, then most baptized souls are sent to Roman Catholic (EOs trend to reject Rome's) Purgatory to endure purifying punishments to atone for sins they sufficiently failed to provide for while on earth, and become good enough to enter glory.

There is some wiggle room as regards the conditions of purgatory as well as whether it is a place or a condition, and in what sense "time" can be ascribed to it, since they are not dogmatic, but while salvation by grace thru faith as in sola fide means it is effectual faith being imputed for righteousness that justifies, salvation by grace thru works means that by grace one is actually made good enough to be with God, which premise either requires perfection of character in this life (and which merely being made clean in baptism would actually not effect) or postmortem purifying torments.

However, wherever Scripture clearly speaks of the next conscious reality for believers then it is with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would they “ever be with the Lord,” though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil. 3:10f)

And the next transformative experience that is manifestly taught is that of being like Christ in the resurrection. (1Jn. 3:2; Rm. 8:23; 1Co 15:53,54; 2Co. 2-4) At which time is the judgment seat of Christ, which is the only suffering mentioned after this life for the believer, which does not begin at death, but awaits the Lord's return, (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy 4:1,8; Revelation 11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4) and is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's grievous displeasure) due to the manner of material one built the church with, which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff)
 
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com7fy8

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Why does the Bible say we are saved by grace through faith, but also God's word says there are things we need to do?

I think it is a package deal > if you get saved by Jesus, Jesus makes you safe so you can not lose Him. Plus, Jesus succeeds in us to have us do all which God's word means He wants us to do. What He does after we get saved, then, is also guaranteed to happen.

Isaiah 55:11 guarantees how God's word will do all which God wants His word to do with us > all which God pleases, therefore all which He means, and not merely what we can now understand. So, we are not only saved unconditionally, but God's grace is unconditionally guaranteed to produce all in us and our lives, which His word means to Him Himself and how His almighty grace of love is able.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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It's kind of like being born human, being a jerk afterwards cannot revoke your birth, but it may affect your status as a citizen or the quality of your life.
I would add to your thought here if I may... great example btw.

You are born human and have a choice to obey the laws of the land you live in or not. If you are in a country like Saudi Arabia, for example, you could end up losing your life for violating those laws for things like adultery, murder, stealing etc.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I would add to your thought here if I may... great example btw.

You are born human and have a choice to obey the laws of the land you live in or not. If you are in a country like Saudi Arabia, for example, you could end up losing your life for violating those laws for things like adultery, murder, stealing etc.
James talks about "faith without works is dead" the concept of the law of liberty seems to centre around the golden rule from the written law, Jesus was merciful to you, so be merciful almost as if reflecting on that parable of the unmerciful debtor.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Why does the Bible say we are saved by grace through faith, but also God's word says there are things we need to do?

I think it is a package deal > if you get saved by Jesus, Jesus makes you safe so you can not lose Him. Plus, Jesus succeeds in us to have us do all which God's word means He wants us to do. What He does after we get saved, then, is also guaranteed to happen.

Isaiah 55:11 guarantees how God's word will do all which God wants His word to do with us > all which God pleases, therefore all which He means, and not merely what we can now understand. So, we are not only saved unconditionally, but God's grace is unconditionally guaranteed to produce all in us and our lives, which His word means to Him Himself and how His almighty grace of love is able.
See above post, by the grace of God. There are things we need to do, not in the sense of becoming actually good enough to be with God, as in Catholicism, but in the sense of having true justifying faith, which is an penitent effectual faith of the heart thus it can be called repentant faith. And "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalms 34:18)

Saving faith effects characteristic obedience which includes penitence confession when convicted of not doing so. (2 Corinthians 7:8-11; 1 John. 1:7-10)

The works a believe does are works effected by, resulting from, faith in the Lord to save him (relative to the light and grace received), and are done because of the Spirit enabling and motivating us to do so, (Philippians 2:13) and are evidence that he is a believer. The lost cannot do thus "work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; (1 Thessalonians 1:3) And with lack of such fruit and or the contrary to it evidencing the opposite.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. (Hebrews 6:9)

Suppose the Lord said to invalids, "whosoever believes in me will have eternal life, and be able to walk, for without faith this will be impossible." And to another He said, "whosoever walks has eternal life."
One could conclude from the latter that walking obtains eternal life, while instead it is because one believes that he is able to walk, and since that evidences that he is a believer then it can be said he has eternal life.

And which means that God justifies man without the merit of any works, which is what Romans 4:1-7ff teaches, with “works of the law” including all systems of justification by actually properly meriting it by works, “for, if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.” (Galatians 3:21)

Thus the penitent publican and the contrite criminal, both of whom abased themselves as damned and destitute sinners and cast all their faith upon the mercy of God (which ultimately is Christ), were justified, and as such could go directly to be with the Lord at death, even before they did any manifest works of faith. However, saving faith effects obedience by the Spirit, (Romans 8:12-14) and justify one as being a believer, and fit to be rewarded under grace for such, (Mt. 25:30-40; Rv. 3:4) though only because God has decided to reward man for what He Himself is to be actually properly credited for.

Man could not and would not believe on the Lord Jesus or follow Him unless God gave him life, and breath, and all good things he has, (Acts 17:25) and convicted him, (Jn. 16:8) drew him, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32) opened his heart, (Acts 16:14) and granted repentance (Acts 11:18) and gave faith, (Eph. 2:8,9) which is accounted as righteousness, and then worked in him both to will and to do of His good pleasure the works He commands them to do. (Phil. 2:13; Eph. 2:10)

Thus man owes to God all things, (1 Chronicles 29:14; 1 Corinthians 4:7) and can not claim he actually deserves anything from God except damnation, for man is guilty and rightly damned for resisting God contrary to the level of grace given him, (Prov. 1:20-31; Lk. 10:13; 12:48; Rv. 20:11-15) yet under grace which denotes strictly unmerited favor, God has chosen to reward faith, (Heb. 10:35) in recognition of its effects, which obedience (again) God both enabled and motivated.

But because it is faith that is counted for righteousness, and which makes one accepted in the Beloved and positionally seated with Christ in Heaven, and has access with holy boldness into the holy of holies to seek the Lord, (Ephesians 1:6; 2:6; Hebrews 10:19) then Scripture exhorts and warns the believer to persevere in the faith, and not to depart from the living God, and fall from grace, and make Christ of no profit, to no effect, and draw back into perdition. (Galatians 5:1-5; Hebrews 3:12; 10:38,39)
 
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sdowney717

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Ephesians 2, clearly your ability to have faith in Christ is not of yourself, you can not believe in Him if you have not heard of Him or heard Him speak. God grants that ability to know the truth by gifting to you ears that can hear Christ speak to you the truth. The good works coming after you beleive simply show the changed nature of the creature that God has remade to be born of God, for we are His workmanship.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Your works don't save anyone. Salvation is of the Lord entirely. You who believe, God made you born again before you confessed your belief in Christ, you are born again so that you could see, which means to perceive the Kingdom of God. Without that ability to perceive you will never believe in Christ, because you are spiritually dead to God and Christ. Your following Satan and walk according to the course of this world, you are sins slave, mentally stunned, and cannot perceive the truth.

John 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see (perceive) the kingdom of God.”
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1492&t=KJV, the meaning of to see in John 3:3 is this, so if you can not see you will have no interest in the kingdom of God and Christ whatsoever.
  1. to see
    1. to perceive with the eyes

    2. to perceive by any of the senses

    3. to perceive, notice, discern, discover

    4. to see
      1. i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything

      2. to pay attention, observe

      3. to see about something
        1. i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it
      4. to inspect, examine

      5. to look at, behold
    5. to experience any state or condition

    6. to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit
  2. to know
    1. to know of anything

    2. to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive
      1. of any fact

      2. the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning

      3. to know how, to be skilled in
    3. to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to (1Th. 5:12)

You were spiritually dead, then He made you alive together with Christ, that is born again, born of God so that you can see, perceive, know the truth. And as you were made alive together with Christ, that life you now have is an everlasting eternal life, as He is so you are.

2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Here’s an interesting article about the commitment involved in saving faith, revisiting Paul’s teaching on salvation: http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/everything-you-know-about-gospel-paul-probably-wrong
That site seems to have some exceptional articles, but I think the author here - another "everyone else and their translation is wrong" - is somewhat guilty of what he accuses others of.

It is true that Paul does not teach we are born guilty, but the authors denial that Paul did not believe in imputed righteousness, and he misrepresents what he is supposedly refuting. For it is not that works "make no contribution to personal sanctity" that is the position of sola fide, but that while true faith accompanies inward transformation and effects personal holiness, these effects are not the basis for his acceptance in the Beloved, which is faith which is counted for righteousness.

Nor is it accurate to say that Pauline faith "largely consists in works of obedience to God and love of others" as being in contrary to sola fide as in meaning that faith does not result in this Faith is not works but it is inseparable from them.

Then we have,

Paul’s actual teachings, however, as taken directly from the Greek of his letters, emphasise...the overthrow of bad angels....These angelic beings, these Archons, whom Paul calls Thrones and Powers and Dominations and Spiritual Forces of Evil in the High Places, are the gods of the nations. In the Letter to the Galatians, he even hints that the angel of the Lord who rules over Israel might be one of their number. Whether fallen, or mutinous, or merely incompetent, these beings stand intractably between us and God. But Christ has conquered them all.

Sometimes, Paul speaks as if some human beings will perish along with the present age, and sometimes as if all human beings will finally be saved. He never speaks of some hell for the torment of unregenerate souls.

To say that Paul this theme is Paul's emphasis, which is not seen even in Romans and barely touched upon if at all in most other places, is wrong, as it is redemption by faith and obedience to it that is his emphasis. And that Paul speaks of possibly incompetent angels, and he hints that the gods of the nations may be the angel of the Lord who rules over Israel, while sometimes speaking as if all human beings will finally be saved, along with his brash, "Everything You Know About the Gospel of Paul is Probably Wrong," testifies to his lack of credibility and objectivity.

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9)
 
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mkgal1

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Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.

These verses prove that we are saved by faith and that those who believe in Jesus WILL be saved. But, there are also other verses in the Bible that Jesus said that trouble me and seem to disprove that we are saved by faith
I think the confusion may be in what's the meaning of "saved" in this passage (and to whom it applies).

First of all: does this passage say "those who believe in Jesus will be saved"? I think you have to--at least--set that presumption aside while reading this. I don't see any qualifiers here....and I believe that's what confuses this.

Instead....I believe this passage is better understood in the Orthodox framework. This article contrasts the Protestant belief and the Orthodox belief.....to me, the Orthodox theology makes much more sense when compared to other passages:

Orthodox Apologetics said:
Protestants believe that Christ, in going to the Cross, took upon the full wrath of God the Father for the sins of humanity, and provided a perfect righteousness to be imputed to those who place trust in His work on the Cross. Because of this righteousness, those who have placed faith in Him are allowed access into Heaven.

Orthodox Christians, by contrast, believe that Christ’s death had nothing to do with satisfying the wrath of God. Rather, Christ’s death served two main purposes. First, Jesus Christ united Himself with humanity in all of its sufferings, sorrows, and pains. He took upon Himself the natural consequence of man’s sin, that is, suffering, rather than the wrath of God the Father for our sins. Second, through His death, Christ annihilated the bonds of death, and in doing so, destroyed the kingdom of Satan.~https://orthodox-apologetics.blogspot.com/2011/02/biblical-view-of-christs-death.html?m=1--

....to me, that's what this passage is about--Christ's death is an act of grace for ALL mankind....He saved us from death (all of us--all of humanity). As that article states:

In Acts 2:23-24 that “This Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.” Death cannot hold the very author of life. Because of this, when it attempted to hold God, God took it and destroyed it, bringing about His own resurrection. St. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15:21-23, “For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

Christ, through His death, has broken death itself. Because He has destroyed death, the kingdom of Satan has fallen and the Church is advancing. The purpose of the Lord’s death has nothing to do with satisfying the wrath of God or shuffling righteousness files in a legal file cabinet. Christ, through His incarnation, death, and resurrection, crushes death, swings open the gates of eternal life, and provides us a means of accessing this life.

....so, IOW, I don't believe this passage is about individuals...but about all of humanity (and what Christ has done for us). Jesus taught us that God’s love is not dependent on our “worthiness.” He proved His love for us ALL of us while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8). Christ died for the ungodly (Romans 5:6).

Have you heard the saying, "God does not love you because you are good. God loves you because God is good!"? It's when we absorb that (and I believe that's a process).....when we believe that He loves us, that we respond by then loving Him and others more like He loves us.
 
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Okay so I had a thought. Throughout the Bible the Bible says that we're saved by faith. Yet in some parts of the Bible it says that we are not saved by faith alone. ...

The point is, saved means, your sins are forgiven and so you are saved from the dead that is the wage of sin.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Forgiveness is free for all. However, eternal life is for righteous.


These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Mat. 25:46

So, when sins are forgiven, person should repent, be born anew, become righteous. Forgiveness is not useful, if person continues in sin.

And righteous person is loyal (faithful) to God and that is why he lives, according to the Bible:

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, "The righteous will live by faith."
Galatians 3:11

But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38

http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/Righteous.html
 
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redleghunter

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That a true faith would have works and therefore those who are not saved in those verses did not have a true faith. So that could be the answer to my problem on these verses but, what about the others?
Faith for Christians is a verb. A call to action. Faith implies faithfulness. Faith and the works wrought by Christ who lives in us cannot be separated. All works we do by faith do not save us but show the saving faith living in us and belong to Christ.

As our Master said "you can do nothing without Me." (John 15:5)
 
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