Cain and Abel

[Ygrene Imref]

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

The father is named when it is said he "knew" her, followed by and she conceived---Adam was the father---there is no question. Angels and humans can not reproduce. They are not our kind and God laid that rule down at creation. Angels are all male---no female names are ever given them. They do not marry---Jesus made that clear. If you are thinking that God would have made angels with the ability to reproduce and then gave them no way to do so, that is quite cruel. Nothing states angels were ever given the instruction to be fruitful and multiply. The statement about the sons of God and daughters of men is simply, when you look into the wording--men who followed God, leaders, probably even spiritual leaders, who went after women who did not follow God. If they can't reproduce, why give them reproductive parts? God doesn't do the unnecessary. That they, at times, appear to look like men, in no way means they actually turn into men--they were created higher than us. Christ became lower than the angels when He was born.

Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

We can not reproduce with creatures that are not our kind. Even though evolutionists insist apes are our kind--no woman can have an apes baby, and they are supposedly closer to our kind than the angels.

Whoops, in order to get the context, let's look at next verses.

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
​

Already, there is the motif of the goat and sheep. This is blatant on purpose. Cain is not the son of Adam. He is the impostor.

Why would God need to put enmity between the seed of the serpent? Even the linguistic context of the Word of God is straight forward. This actually gave us our answer as to how Genesis 4:1-2 came about!

You can find even more evidence of this when we see how the Word of God lists the genealogy of men in the bible: they are identified by their fathers, just like the God the Hebrews follow are identified through the Patriarchs with whom He made covenants (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.)

Consider the genealogy of Cain:
Show me one place in Genesis 4:17-31 where Cain's father is mentioned by name.

Consider the genealogy of Adam:
Even in Genesis 5, Adam's Father is named - The Most High God, as a true Son of God is one given by Him - made by Him. Everyone except Adam, Eve and the Word of God have only been sons of MAN.

Consider the genealogy of The Word of God:
Christ's genealogy is listed completely in Matthew 1:1-17 - and every one of His fathers was given by name.




Cain is the goat. His father from the apocrypha (Azazel) is the "scapegoat." It may be time to come to grips with the history and reality of the world in front of us. When the days of Noah happen again, how will you know if you don't believe what is explicitly and implicitly given in a simple canon? You would think this stuff going on now, and the things to come, are new. In fact, it is a cyclic iteration of the same things. Things we think are fantastical are simply matters of fact. As I said before, this is new just to Western Christianity, and religions in general.

Hercules, Achilles, Aeneas, Perseus, Helen of Troy - all of these (wo)men of renown - come from the same real history. And, part of that was the very real history that the human race has been under genetic assault since Adam for the purposes of polluting the bloodline of Christ. By this, the Christ cannot be born as a son of Man - as the prophecy demands. He would be [an] iron [man] mingled with clay. That was just one consequential purpose of the fall - perpetrated by the sons of God who chose to leave their first estate. In fact, in the apocrypha, these angels knew the consequences, but made a pact to go through with the defiling of the humans.


Truth is stranger than fiction, especially in spirituality.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

By the way, God never said angels cannot mate with lesser creatures, or with themselves. He never said that.

He said they have no need.

They are already perfect; they do not need to reproduce themselves in order to bring about a Christ, nor did they get a directive from the Most High to be fruitful. They have other orders/functions. It was supposed to be a teachable moment to try and get us carnally-focused humans to think of something other than sex as the highest possible point of happiness and good-feeling. We are terribly ignorant and myopic of the wonders of heaven.

But, the Word of God never said angels cannot reproduce, or marry. If humans can create sperm from bone marrow, and induce conception without the need of the other sex, why would it be so hard to see the reality of an angel being able to transsubstantiate into a suitable avatar for mating, or use "technology" to get the job done (as in the latter days)?

 

[mmksparbud]

Whoops, in order to get the context, let's look at next verses.

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
​

Already, there is the motif of the goat and sheep. This is blatant on purpose. Cain is not the son of Adam. He is the impostor.

Why would God need to put enmity between the seed of the serpent? Even the linguistic context of the Word of God is straight forward. This actually gave us our answer as to how Genesis 4:1-2 came about!

You can find even more evidence of this when we see how the Word of God lists the genealogy of men in the bible: they are identified by their fathers, just like the God the Hebrews follow are identified through the Patriarchs with whom He made covenants (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.)

Consider the genealogy of Cain:
Show me one place in Genesis 4:17-31 where Cain's father is mentioned by name.

Consider the genealogy of Adam:
Even in Genesis 5, Adam's Father is named - The Most High God, as a true Son of God is one given by Him - made by Him. Everyone except Adam, Eve and the Word of God have only been sons of MAN.

Consider the genealogy of The Word of God:
Christ's genealogy is listed completely in Matthew 1:1-17 - and every one of His fathers was given by name.




Cain is the goat. His father from the apocrypha (Azazel) is the "scapegoat." It may be time to come to grips with the history and reality of the world in front of us. When the days of Noah happen again, how will you know if you don't believe what is explicitly and implicitly given in a simple canon? You would think this stuff going on now, and the things to come, are new. In fact, it is a cyclic iteration of the same things. Things we think are fantastical are simply matters of fact. As I said before, this is new just to Western Christianity, and religions in general.

Hercules, Achilles, Aeneas, Perseus, Helen of Troy - all of these (wo)men of renown - come from the same real history. And, part of that was the very real history that the human race has been under genetic assault since Adam for the purposes of polluting the bloodline of Christ. By this, the Christ cannot be born as a son of Man - as the prophecy demands. He would be [an] iron [man] mingled with clay. That was just one consequential purpose of the fall - perpetrated by the sons of God who chose to leave their first estate. In fact, in the apocrypha, these angels knew the consequences, but made a pact to go through with the defiling of the humans.


Truth is stranger than fiction, especially in spirituality.

You are free to believe whatever you wish. I simply choose to believe in what the bible says---and it clearly states Adam is the father of Cain. It states right there in the verse I quoted and which you ignore.

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain,

It is clear. I've heard these silly theories for 40 years and they have absolutely no basis in reality, nor in the bible, nor even, in common sense.
The generations listed in Mathew is very clear--it goes back to Abraham:
Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

When Cain killed Abel, he was expelled from the family --sent out--he lost his firstborn rights. He was no longer the inheritor. Abel was dead, the firstborn place was taken over by Seth. There has been no genetic pollution by fallen angels---angels can not reproduce. The bloodline of Jesus was never in danger of being polluted. It is traced to David and to Joseph---Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus. Jesus' humanity came not from Joseph but from Mary. Joseph was the legal father, for the child belongs to whomsoever is married to the woman that has it. Thus, though the line is traced from Joseph, it is the mother that determines whether the child is Jewish or not. If the mother is Jewish--the child is, no matter if the father isn't. That is the Jewish law. Jesus real father is God the Father--God the Holy Spirit--through that comes His right to be High priest after the order of Melchizedek, for it goes through the blood line of the father.

There is no mention of goats in Gen 4--Abel kept sheep--Cain tilled the ground.

 

[mmksparbud]

Mat_22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mar_12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

You are free to believe whatever you wish. I simply choose to believe in what the bible says---and it clearly states Adam is the father of Cain. It states right there in the verse I quoted and which you ignore.

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain,

It is clear. I've heard these silly theories for 40 years and they have absolutely no basis in reality, nor in the bible, nor even, in common sense.
The generations listed in Mathew is very clear--it goes back to Abraham:
Mat 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

When Cain killed Abel, he was expelled from the family --sent out--he lost his firstborn rights. He was no longer the inheritor. Abel was dead, the firstborn place was taken over by Seth. There has been no genetic pollution by fallen angels---angels can not reproduce. The bloodline of Jesus was never in danger of being polluted. It is traced to David and to Joseph---Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus. Jesus' humanity came not from Joseph but from Mary. Joseph was the legal father, for the child belongs to whomsoever is married to the woman that has it. Thus, though the line is traced from Joseph, it is the mother that determines whether the child is Jewish or not. If the mother is Jewish--the child is, no matter if the father isn't. That is the Jewish law. Jesus real father is God the Father--God the Holy Spirit--through that comes His right to be High priest after the order of Melchizedek, for it goes through the blood line of the father.

There is no mention of goats in Gen 4--Abel kept sheep--Cain tilled the ground.

I gave you nothing but bible verses - in context, with all of the verses connected. Cain is not Adam's son; the canon doesn't even say this explicitly like it does for other first-born males (Ishmael got a name mention, and a double portion - and he didn't even commit the first murder.)

 

[mmksparbud]

I gave you nothing but bible verses - in context, with all of the verses connected. Cain is not Adam's son; the canon doesn't even say this explicitly like it does for other first-born males (Ishmael got a name mention, and a double portion - and he didn't even commit the first murder.)

None of the bible verses you quoted even hints at your theory. You are adding to the word of God, inserting you own thoughts into His words. Adam knew Eve, she conceived--she bore Cain. It's quite clear.

 

[visionary]

According to Pirḳe de R. Eliezer, Cain's wife was his twin-sister. Book of Jubilees: The Book of Jubilees: Cain and Abel (iv. 1-12)

 

[mmksparbud]

According to Pirḳe de R. Eliezer, Cain's wife was his twin-sister. Book of Jubilees: The Book of Jubilees: Cain and Abel (iv. 1-12)

His wife would have been a sister--as to it being his twin---nothing in scripture suggests that. It does suggest Abel was his twin. For it usually is states that someone knew the wife, then she conceived and bore a child. With Eve, it says Adam knew her, she conceived and bore Cain--it goes immediately into she again bore Abel, without the usual, she was known and she conceived. Females were mentioned only if they were important to the story line. Otherwise, no females are mentioned in the genealogy of a family.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

The ground will not give her strength---did you think that meant only as far as Cain was concerned??
It was cursed twice---and a 3rd time through inclement weather. After Cain we had to work harder than Adam. After the flood, we now have drought, floods, heat and cold and snow to content with.

The ground was already cursed, because of Adam (Genesis 3:17-18). It is very simple not complicated, Adam and Cain were men who worked the cursed ground but only Cain was cursed because he killed his brother. In the days of Adam when did the ground cease from being cursed, that it needed to be cursed again?

 

[mmksparbud]

The ground was already cursed, because of Adam (Genesis 3:17-18). It is very simple not complicated, Adam and Cain were men who worked the cursed ground but only Cain was cursed because he killed his brother. In the days of Adam when did the ground cease from being cursed, that it needed to be cursed again?

Yes it is very simple---Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
From henceforth---that means from that day on the ground would no longer yield her strength as it had done before. With Adam, the ground was cursed with thorn's and thistles and Adam would have to work harder over it. With Cain, it would no longer yield her strength---yes---it is very simple.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

Deleted

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
You were given it, and you chose to ignore it.

hence·forth
[ˌhensˈfôrTH]
ADVERB

1. from this time on or from that time on:
   "the company announced that it would henceforth charge royalties"
   synonyms: from now on · as of now · in (the) future · hence · subsequently · from this day on · from this day forth · hereafter

good bye---

Do you not realize that "henceforth " means and includes the present time or now? "From now on" the present now and the future. As I already told you the ground was already cursed because of Adam, the ground would continue to be cursed and Cain would be cursed for killing his brother. Cain did not lift or "reverse the curse". Ruth 1:6

 

[Ygrene Imref]

None of the bible verses you quoted even hints at your theory. You are adding to the word of God, inserting you own thoughts into His words. Adam knew Eve, she conceived--she bore Cain. It's quite clear.

It actually IS NOT clear - canonization did that.

If you look at the etymology, anthropology, mythology, history, Hebrew culture, languages and customs, then the picture actually starts to be clear.



If it was clear, the canon would have named Cain's father when there was more than several occasion to do so (lineage, Christ's line through the first-born), etc.

You allegedly need an interpreter - which goes against a clause in the New Agreement/Covenant if it is not the Holy Spirit directly, or you need to do some academic digging. Usually it is a long, arduous combination of both to uncover the Truth from the canonized work.

 

[mmksparbud]

Do you not realize that "henceforth " means and includes the present time or now? "From now on" the present now and the future. As I already told you the ground was already cursed because of Adam, the ground would continue to be cursed and Cain would be cursed for killing his brother. Cain did not lift or "reverse the curse". Ruth 1:6

hence·forth
[ˌhensˈfôrTH]
ADVERB

1. from this time on or from that time on:
   "the company announced that it would henceforth charge royalties"
   synonyms: from now on · as of now · in (the) future · hence · subsequently · from this day on · from this day forth · hereafter

From this time on--from this moment on--as of this moment--now--at this time and after this moment. Yes---just as you stated---"from now on"---

Up to this moment---the ground had been cursed with thorns and thistles and Adam would have to sweat to work the ground. But---with Cain--from this moment on---"from now on"----the ground would now no longer yield her strength. This is an extra thing added to what Adam had to do---now, from this moment onward---
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

It just doesn't get plainer than this.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

hence·forth
[ˌhensˈfôrTH]
ADVERB

1. from this time on or from that time on:
   "the company announced that it would henceforth charge royalties"
   synonyms: from now on · as of now · in (the) future · hence · subsequently · from this day on · from this day forth · hereafter

From this time on--from this moment on--as of this moment--now--at this time and after this moment. Yes---just as you stated---"from now on"---

Up to this moment---the ground had been cursed with thorns and thistles and Adam would have to sweat to work the ground. But---with Cain--from this moment on---"from now on"----the ground would now no longer yield her strength. This is an extra thing added to what Adam had to do---now, from this moment onward---
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

It just doesn't get plainer than this.

If the ground is yielding thorns and thistles then it should be crystal clear and obvious that the ground is not yielding her strength unto Cain or Adam, nothing added or taken away; the ground is cursed. There could have been even a famine if the ground is only yielding thorns and thistles. Cain is cursed, not Adam. Abel is able to raise a healthy flock of sheep, during a possible famine.

 

[mmksparbud]

It actually IS NOT clear - canonization did that.

If you look at the etymology, anthropology, mythology, history, Hebrew culture, languages and customs, then the picture actually starts to be clear.



If it was clear, the canon would have named Cain's father when there was more than several occasion to do so (lineage, Christ's line through the first-born), etc.

You allegedly need an interpreter - which goes against a clause in the New Agreement/Covenant if it is not the Holy Spirit directly, or you need to do some academic digging. Usually it is a long, arduous combination of both to uncover the Truth from the canonized work.

It Doesn't even take a high school education to get this---
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain,

When the word "knew" is understood---a child can understand that Adam had sex with Eve and she got pregnant and she gave birth to Cain.
There is nothing that states something that wasn't human knew Eve and she conceived and bare Cain. It says Adam. It doesn't say the snake knew Eve, it doesn't say anyone or anything else knew Eve.
Adam is Cain's father---from the time that God had Cain expelled from the family---he was no longer the firstborn with the firstborn inheritance--it fell to Seth. Genealogy now started from Adam to Seth to his firstborn male. Any genealogy would go from Seth to Adam--neither Cain nor Abel would be included.

 

[mmksparbud]

If the ground is yielding thorns and thistles then it should be crystal clear and obvious that the ground is not yielding her strength unto Cain or Adam, nothing added or taken away; the ground is cursed. There could have been even a famine if the ground is only yielding thorns and thistles. Cain is cursed, not Adam.

The ground was yielding it's full strength, just also including in thorns and thistles. Now it would no longer yield it's strength. Not even the thorns and thistles would be as prolific. This had nothing to do with Adam--the ground would no longer yield her strength. If this was not an addition it need not have been said at all---all that God had to say was:

"henceforth a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."

Instead God said
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

Crystal clear and obvious.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

The ground was yielding it's full strength, just also including in thorns and thistles. Now it would no longer yield it's strength. Not even the thorns and thistles would be as prolific. This had nothing to do with Adam--the ground would no longer yield her strength. If this was not an addition it need not have been said at all---all that God had to say was:

"henceforth a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."

Instead God said
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

Crystal clear and obvious.

So you say the ground yielded her strength including thorns and thistles. Please read Hebrews 6:8, don't respond to me until after you read it.

 

[mmksparbud]

So you say the ground yielded her strength including thorns and thistles. Please read Hebrews 6:8, don't respond to me until after you read it.

Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

And?? Thorns and thistles are a curse---we know that. It also says that the rain brings the herbs---the very first rain that fell was most definitely not a blessing. It also goes back to the wheat and tares---thorns, tares---end of them will be to be burned up.
Whatever---doesn't do one thing to change the fact that with Cain--the earth would no longer yield it's strength.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

And?? Thorns and thistles are a curse---we know that. It also says that the rain brings the herbs---the very first rain that fell was most definitely not a blessing. It also goes back to the wheat and tares---thorns, tares---end of them will be to be burned up.
Whatever---doesn't do one thing to change the fact that with Cain--the earth would no longer yield it's strength.

It did not rain until Noah, so the ground was blessed through rain as Hebrews 6:7 so adequately states that you disregard. Noah built an altar and he ate fruit from the vine. The vineyard was a sign of YHWH blessing the land. Again the ground would yield thorns and thistles for Adam's labor, Adam would have to eat bread or "wild grass" or "wheat" from the field. Cain took Abel out into field to murder him.