Yahshua is our Messiah's name

CherubRam

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
6,777
781
✟103,730.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
If after making similar demands of my experience, asking you important questions about your experience is an attack, then turnabout is fair play.

Why not simply answer the questions and turn them moot?

What are your answers?

As for the name of God, I have been studying it for more than 20 years.

Now it is your turn.
True or false. The Rabbi's changed the Hebrew language?
True or false. Most all scholars agree that the first part of God's name is Yah?
 
Upvote 0

Heber Book List

Theologian [Applied Theology]
Jul 1, 2015
2,609
851
Whippingham, Isle of Wight, England
✟132,416.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
The siege of Masada by troops of the Roman Empire at the end of the First Jewish–Roman War ended in the mass suicide of 960 people.

The Jewish–Roman wars were a series of large-scale revolts by the Jews against the Roman Empire between 66 and 136 CE.

Josephus claims that over 1,100,000 people died during the initial siege of Israel.

Jeremiah 11
21 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the people of Anathoth who are threatening to kill you, saying, “Do not prophesy in the name of the Lord or you will die by our hands”— 22 therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine. 23 Not even a remnant will be left to them, because I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.”

Anathoth
is the name of one of the Levitical cities given to "the children of Aaron" in the tribe of Benjamin.

What makes you think those things are linked together? All you have done is to repeat your previous comment and added in the later sentence about the destruction of Jerusalem. There is a large void to be filled.
 
Upvote 0

CherubRam

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
6,777
781
✟103,730.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
What makes you think those things are linked together? All you have done is to repeat your previous comment and added in the later sentence about the destruction of Jerusalem. There is a large void to be filled.

Quote: "in the year of their punishment"

Sometimes the prophets made prophecies out of context, so it would not be fully understood, until after the fact. Or so it seems to some people that it is out of context.

In context the festivals are just that, but out of context they are prophecies.


John 15:2
He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.


Jeremiah 11
16 The Lord called you a thriving olive tree
with fruit beautiful in form.
But with the roar of a mighty storm
he will set it on fire,
and its branches will be broken.


Anathoth is the name of one of the Levitical cities given to "the children of Aaron" in the tribe of Benjamin.

Jeremiah 11
21 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the people of Anathoth who are threatening to kill you, saying, “Do not prophesy in the name of the Lord or you will die by our hands”— 22 therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine. 23 Not even a remnant will be left to them, because I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.”


In what year did the people die of a great famine? When were the people of Israel also destroyed?
 
Upvote 0

SteveCaruso

Translator
May 17, 2010
812
555
✟54,511.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
As for the name of God, I have been studying it for more than 20 years.

That's a half-answer to *one* of my questions. Answer the others first, please.

I have the answers to your questions written up, ready and waiting for when you finish.
 
Upvote 0

Heber Book List

Theologian [Applied Theology]
Jul 1, 2015
2,609
851
Whippingham, Isle of Wight, England
✟132,416.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Quote: "in the year of their punishment"

Sometimes the prophets made prophecies out of context, so it would not be fully understood, until after the fact. Or so it seems to some people that it is out of context.

In context the festivals are just that, but out of context they are prophecies.


John 15:2
He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.


Jeremiah 11
16 The Lord called you a thriving olive tree
with fruit beautiful in form.
But with the roar of a mighty storm
he will set it on fire,
and its branches will be broken.


Anathoth is the name of one of the Levitical cities given to "the children of Aaron" in the tribe of Benjamin.

Jeremiah 11
21 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the people of Anathoth who are threatening to kill you, saying, “Do not prophesy in the name of the Lord or you will die by our hands”— 22 therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine. 23 Not even a remnant will be left to them, because I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.”


In what year did the people die of a great famine? When were the people of Israel also destroyed?

Fail! You have shown no causality between Jeremiah's words and the later fall of Jerusalem, or anything else for that matter. If his comments are as you say then there must be clear evidence of it being directly linked to an event at some point, with more evidence than 'he said 'A' and this might be 'B''. Mere speculation at the moment is all you have shown.
 
Upvote 0

CherubRam

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
6,777
781
✟103,730.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Fail! You have shown no causality between Jeremiah's words and the later fall of Jerusalem, or anything else for that matter. If his comments are as you say then there must be clear evidence of it being directly linked to an event at some point, with more evidence than 'he said 'A' and this might be 'B''. Mere speculation at the moment is all you have shown.

Your idea of what the scripture is saying is certainly different than mine.

Anathoth is the name of one of the Levitical cities given to "the children of Aaron" in the tribe of Benjamin.


Jeremiah 11
21 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the people of Anathoth who are threatening to kill you, saying, “Do not prophesy in the name of the Lord or you will die by our hands”— 22 therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine. 23 Not even a remnant will be left to them, because I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.”

The war and famine did not take place in the days of Jeremiah.


Hosea 9:7
The days of punishment are coming, the days of reckoning are at hand. Let Israel know this. Because your sins are so many and your hostility so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired person a maniac.


Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
 
Upvote 0

CherubRam

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
6,777
781
✟103,730.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
That's a half-answer to *one* of my questions. Answer the others first, please.

I have the answers to your questions written up, ready and waiting for when you finish.
לא, אני לא אענה לך
 
Upvote 0

SteveCaruso

Translator
May 17, 2010
812
555
✟54,511.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
לא, אני לא אענה לך

!האהאהא
?ואתה באמת חושב שמשפט פשוט כזה הוא תשובה
:) שים את זה בתרגום של גוגל

?או תיתתב לי בארמייא
?בלישנא דישוע משיהא
:) .תרגומא דגוגל לא יכיל מסעד לך​
 
Upvote 0

Heber Book List

Theologian [Applied Theology]
Jul 1, 2015
2,609
851
Whippingham, Isle of Wight, England
✟132,416.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Your idea of what the scripture is saying is certainly different than mine.

Anathoth is the name of one of the Levitical cities given to "the children of Aaron" in the tribe of Benjamin.


Jeremiah 11
21 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the people of Anathoth who are threatening to kill you, saying, “Do not prophesy in the name of the Lord or you will die by our hands”— 22 therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will punish them. Their young men will die by the sword, their sons and daughters by famine. 23 Not even a remnant will be left to them, because I will bring disaster on the people of Anathoth in the year of their punishment.”

The war and famine did not take place in the days of Jeremiah.


Hosea 9:7
The days of punishment are coming, the days of reckoning are at hand. Let Israel know this. Because your sins are so many and your hostility so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired person a maniac.


Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

One day the 'penny will drop' so to speak!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Aryeh Jay

Gone and hopefully forgotten.
Supporter
Jul 19, 2012
15,312
14,321
MI - Michigan
✟498,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
True or false. The Rabbi's changed the Hebrew language?

I am curious about this claim. What year did the rabbis change the Hebrew language? When and where did they all get together to do this? How did the communities not notice that the rabbis were missing for weeks? How did all the rabbis agree? How did the people not notice that the rabbis were speaking a new language when they returned? How did the rabbis convince everyone to learn the new language and forget the old one? How did they edit out the old language without anyone noticing it? Why isn’t there any real proof of this massive conspiracy? If they all got together and changed the language, why is Sephardic different from Yemenite and Ashkenazic?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: SteveCaruso
Upvote 0

CherubRam

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
6,777
781
✟103,730.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I am curious about this claim. What year did the rabbis change the Hebrew language? When and where did they all get together to do this? How did the communities not notice that the rabbis were missing for weeks? How did all the rabbis agree? How did the people not notice that the rabbis were speaking a new language when they returned? How did the rabbis convince everyone to learn the new language and forget the old one? How did they edit out the old language without anyone noticing it? Why isn’t there any real proof of this massive conspiracy? If they all got together and changed the language, why is Sephardic different from Yemenite and Ashkenazic?
Hebrew mostly changed between 167 BC and 600 AD. If you want to know more, then study Hebrew language history.


Yah / shua
Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until after the year 1525,
when Sir William Tyndale a Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England invented it!

His name in English is Yahshua. What you have is Greek forms of the name with a modern Hebrew twist. Hebrew did not have an e vowel until after 200 AD.

In regards to various stages of Hebrew, the vowel change came after the second century AD. The vowel e was officially adopted by the Masoretes in the sixth century AD.



Concealing the name of God

Concealing the name of God was not only a custom, it was also made a law.

The sages quoted, "This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations" (Ex. iii. 15). Here the word "le-'olam" (forever) is written defectively, being without the "waw" for the vowel "o," which renders the reading "le-'allem" (to conceal; Ḳid. 71a).


Forty years prior to the destruction of the Temple, the priests ceased to pronounce the Name (Yoma39b). From that time the pronunciation of the Name was prohibited. "Whoever pronounces the Name forfeits his portion in the future world" (Sanh. xi. 1).
30 AD to 70 AD.

Abba Saul (2d cent.) condemned the profanation of the Tetragrammaton by classing those "that speak the Name according to its letters," with those who have no part in the future world (Sanh. x. 1); and according to 'Ab. Zarah 17b, one of the martyrs of Hadrian's time, Hananiah b. Teradion, was burned at the stake because he so uttered the Name.


The view that prayer is more effectual if the name of God is pronounced in it as it is written caused the scholars of Kairwan to address a question in the eleventh century to Hai Gaon with reference to the pronunciation of the Shem ha-Meforash, to which he answered that it might not be uttered at all outside the Holy Land (Hai Gaon, "Ṭa'am Zeḳenim," p. 55; see Löw, "Gesammelte Schriften," i. 204).


Because Hebrews dropped their 'ayins', to keep from saying God's name, hence we have "y'shua." Also spelled Yeshua, for which we have in Greek, "Iēsous" and "Isus." These are corruptions of the names that begin with "Yah."

Thirteen theophoric names with "Yeho" have corresponding forms where the letters eh have been omitted. There is a theory by Christian Ginsburg that this is due to Hebrew scribes omitting the "h", changing Jeho (יְהוֹ‎) into Jo (יוֹ‎), to make the start of "Yeho-" names not sound like an attempt to pronounce the Divine Name.
Theophoric Names: Theophoric name - Wikipedia



Quote: The Imperial Aramaic script of the earlier scrolls in the 3rd century BCE evolved into the Hebrew square script of the later scrolls in the 1st century CE, also known as ketav Ashuri (Assyrian script), still in use today.Mishnaic Hebrew from the 1st to the 3rd or 4th century CE.

Quote: "Hebrew linguists classify Dead Sea Scroll Hebrew as a set of dialects evolving out of Late Biblical Hebrew and into Mishnaic Hebrew, thus including elements from both but remaining distinct from either."

Source: Hebrew language - Wikipedia


Early Aramaic and Hebrew vowels
The early Aramaic and Hebrew vowel system is reconstructed as a o i u



Summary
The following charts summarize the most common reflexes of the Proto-Semitic vowels in the various stages of Hebrew:

Proto-Semitic: a, i, u.

Proto-Hebrew: a, o, i, u.

Secunda: a, o, i, u.

Tiberian: ɔ, o, i, u.

Babylonian: ɔ, o, i, u.

Palestinian: a, o, i, u.

Samaritan: ( a, ɒ,) u, ( e, i,) (o, u.)



The vowel “a” is pronounced, “ah.” The “u” is pronounced “ow or uw.” And the Ayin is pronounced “ah.”

Yahwah: יהוה

Yashua: ישוע


Some scholars argue that there are too many vowels in some Hebrew words.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Samuel Waters

New Member
Supporter
Mar 18, 2018
1
1
70
Oak Lawn
✟45,231.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Kind corrspondents,
Please allow me to pour oil. I come in peace.
- The Messiah's Name is a Holy Name. It is unbecoming to handle it sloppily, and it is entirely reasonable for The Almighty Father, in this age, to tap us on the shoulder, and call for a realignment, after so many centuries of gradual distortion.
- Care with names is exactly what the Scriptures show by example. The Holy Scriptures convey the names of pagan deities and pagan kings with remarkable faithfulness. Holy Names should be handled with even greater care.
- Instead of hopping from Hebrew-to Greek-to Latin-to Old English-to "Jesus", many have reclaimed a sense of authenticity, by drawing the Messiah's name directrly from The Hebrew.
- The processes properly goes by the term "Transcription", but it's also known as "Transliteration."
- While the Scriptures clearly teach Transliteration and Transcription of Names, it clearly shows dialectal variety as well.
- It is evident that The Hebrew Messiah has the same name as the Ephraimite Commander, commonly known as Joshua.
- In the Hebrew Scruiptures. There are at least three(3) spellings and thus at least three pronunciations possible for Joshua's Name. Using Linguistic science, such as comparitive methods, Jewish transcriptions into other languages, etc., several more possible pronunciations emerge.
- THUS ==> We have several pronunciations competing for peoples' attention, when such competition was never Divine Intent.
- We had dialectal variety in ancient times, and we will have dialectal variety today.
- If your pronunciation comes from The Hebrew, and is linguistically possible, it has standing before Heaven.
- If your ministry goes in this direction of authenticity, cooperate with their choices, and quit arguing. Do not condemn others. Urge them also to refrain from condemnation.
- Love always
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: CherubRam
Upvote 0

CherubRam

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2012
6,777
781
✟103,730.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Kind corrspondents,
Please allow me to pour oil. I come in peace.
- The Messiah's Name is a Holy Name. It is unbecoming to handle it sloppily, and it is entirely reasonable for The Almighty Father, in this age, to tap us on the shoulder, and call for a realignment, after so many centuries of gradual distortion.
- Care with names is exactly what the Scriptures show by example. The Holy Scriptures convey the names of pagan deities and pagan kings with remarkable faithfulness. Holy Names should be handled with even greater care.
- Instead of hopping from Hebrew-to Greek-to Latin-to Old English-to "Jesus", many have reclaimed a sense of authenticity, by drawing the Messiah's name directrly from The Hebrew.
- The processes properly goes by the term "Transcription", but it's also known as "Transliteration."
- While the Scriptures clearly teach Transliteration and Transcription of Names, it clearly shows dialectal variety as well.
- It is evident that The Hebrew Messiah has the same name as the Ephraimite Commander, commonly known as Joshua.
- In the Hebrew Scriptures. There are at least three(3) spellings and thus at least three pronunciations possible for Joshua's Name. Using Linguistic science, such as comparitive methods, Jewish transcriptions into other languages, etc., several more possible pronunciations emerge.
- THUS ==> We have several pronunciations competing for peoples' attention, when such competition was never Divine Intent.
- We had dialectal variety in ancient times, and we will have dialectal variety today.
- If your pronunciation comes from The Hebrew, and is linguistically possible, it has standing before Heaven.
- If your ministry goes in this direction of authenticity, cooperate with their choices, and quit arguing. Do not condemn others. Urge them also to refrain from condemnation.
- Love always
Thank you for your reply.

Yahshua=Yahshuah
 
Upvote 0

pat34lee

Messianic
Sep 13, 2011
11,293
2,637
59
Florida, USA
✟89,330.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
If you talk to the folks around here who actually know Hebrew, they'll tell you it's made up and has never been a name in that language.

The problem with 'those who know' is that
they weren't around before vowel pointings
either. Nobody knows what Hebrew sounded
like in the first century AD, much less earlier.
 
Upvote 0

pat34lee

Messianic
Sep 13, 2011
11,293
2,637
59
Florida, USA
✟89,330.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
I am curious about this claim. What year did the rabbis change the Hebrew language? When and where did they all get together to do this? How did the communities not notice that the rabbis were missing for weeks? How did all the rabbis agree? How did the people not notice that the rabbis were speaking a new language when they returned? How did the rabbis convince everyone to learn the new language and forget the old one? How did they edit out the old language without anyone noticing it? Why isn’t there any real proof of this massive conspiracy? If they all got together and changed the language, why is Sephardic different from Yemenite and Ashkenazic?

The key isn't in them teaching anything directly. It's in the
Torah scrolls where they added the vowel pointings. Change
the vowels and you change not only the pronunciation, but
the meaning of words themselves. You can change a lot that
way in a single generation. In two or three generations, you
can change everything.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,035
US
✟1,060,277.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
The problem with 'those who know' is that
they weren't around before vowel pointings
either. Nobody knows what Hebrew sounded
like in the first century AD, much less earlier.

I've been seeing much evidence that scholars build on previous works of other scholars; thereby compounding the errors of their predecessors.
 
Upvote 0