Are you bound by the Mosaic Laws or Rabbinic Judaism?

[gadar perets]

1. He is replying to Beit Shammai Pharisees. Beit Hillel Pharisees (which Jesus' teachings mirrored) taught that one could violate the Shabbat to save a life, i.e. if one was starving.
...
These disputes between different schools of Pharisees were common and an ordinary part of Jewish life. The Talmud records many of them. Jesus' disputes were the epitomy of normal.

[QUOTE="Open Heart]
This is why it is imperative that according to Jesus his followers do and observe ALL that they teach (including Oral Torah).[/QUOTE]
If it is so imperative, then which one do we obey? If we obey Beit Hillel, then we disobey Beit Shammai and vice versa.

 

[gadar perets]

Which of the 10 commandments would apply directly to boundary markers ? I agree that the Mosaic laws , are also moral laws .

I would include it under "Thou shall not steal". By moving the marker you are stealing your neighbors land.

 

[pat34lee]

I checked on the original text and it reads (Gehenna) in Matthew 10:28.

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the bible. Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Does that mean Yahweh will destroy sinners in the dump
outside the walls of Jerusalem, or could it be something
else, or did Yahushua lie about it?

 

[pat34lee]

Could you please explain what you consider to be the difference between discipling and teaching?

One major difference is the goal.

Teaching is meant to educate you on a subject.
It is purely mental education, not moral.

Discipleship is meant to tell you how to live. A
disciple should end up a copy of the master who
taught him. Much like mentoring or apprenticeship,
discipling is an intensely personal relationship.

 

[pat34lee]

I would include it under "Thou shall not steal". By moving the marker you are stealing your neighbors land.

Also, you shall love thy neighbor as thyself.

 

[pat34lee]

The Karaites are great people but they do not practice Judaism. Theirs is a heresy OF Judaism. Saying that Karaites practice Judaism is a bit like saying that Baptists practice Catholicism.

Karaites practice pre-Rabbinic Judaism. But
even there, Judaism is not biblical. Yahweh
never named a religion. He gave Israel laws
to live and govern themselves; not a religion.

Just because most Jews follow the Rabbis,
it doesn't make the others wrong. They are
more like the Bereans of the NT, which puts
them way ahead of the Rabbinics.

 

[pat34lee]

You mean besides the fact that Jesus taught many oral traditions such as the sabbath being made for man and not man for the Sabbath? Here are two blatant examples of Jesus directly ordering the following of Oral Torah:

1. Matthew 23:1-3 Jesus tells his followers to do EVERYTHING the Pharisees teach. The Pharisees taught Oral Torah.

2. Matthew 23:23 Jesus instructs the Pharisees to BOTH keep the basics of the Law AND the Oral Law (the spice tax).

Jesus' main complaint with the Pharisees was not oral Torah, but their hypocricy, hypocrisy, hypocrisy.

Yahushua taught no traditions. He taught plain truth.
"This is what the scripture says, and this is what it means."

The fact that the Rabbis got it right occasionally is less
surprising than how often they got it wrong.

1. Do whatever they tell you (in their accepted jobs as judges),
not what they teach.

2. Keep your traditions if you want, but first, follow the law.

Their main fault was to believe themselves smarter than
Yahweh, and better able to judge the laws than He.

 

[Open Heart]

Yahushua taught no traditions. He taught plain truth.
"This is what the scripture says, and this is what it means."

"The Sabbath is made for man and not man for the sabbath" is not written in scripture. It is written in the Talmud. IOW it was Oral Torah.

 

[Open Heart]

Karaites practice pre-Rabbinic Judaism.

The karaite movement didn't begin until somewhere between the 7th-9th centuries AD. AD!!! So it's not pre-Rabbinic.

But
even there, Judaism is not biblical. Yahweh
never named a religion. He gave Israel laws
to live and govern themselves; not a religion.

Hashem definitely gave Israel a religion. There was a tabernacle with sacrifices and holy days to keep. If that's not a religion, then I'm the Queen of England.

 

[Open Heart]

Teaching is meant to educate you on a subject.
It is purely mental education, not moral.

This is simply not true.

Proverbs 6:23 For this command is a lamp, this teaching is a light, and correction and instruction are the way to life

Proverbs 22:17 [ Thirty Sayings of the Wise ] [ Saying 1 ] Pay attention and turn your ear to the sayings of the wise; apply your heart to what I teach.

 

[Open Heart]

If it is so imperative, then which one do we obey? If we obey Beit Hillel, then we disobey Beit Shammai and vice versa.

Jesus' teachings line up with Bet Hillel (with one exception -- that of divorce).

 

[Open Heart]

Which of the 10 commandments would apply directly to boundary markers ?

Why would you ask this question?
1. I assume you already know the answer
2. It's completely irrelevant to the conversation. We in the MJ forum accept the entire Torah, not just the 10.

 

[HARK!]

Matthew 23:23
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. (Meaning the spice tax.)

You would do well to compare the Concordant Literal Version to the Greek. You'll find it to be more accurate than the translation that you posted.

 

[HARK!]

Reference Deuteronomy 17:8-13

Non-sequitur

Those verses are about judgements of criminal and civil matters, arising between two parties.

You're seriously grasping at straws here.

 

[HARK!]

This is why it is imperative that according to Jesus his followers do and observe ALL that they teach (including Oral Torah).

Nonsense. Yahshua broke their man made, traditional, oral torah.

 

[HARK!]

If you want to know who these other Yeshuas are, read what is written about them.

In other words you have nothing. See: Burden of Proof

The disciples are not mentioned.

Now that's just plain laughable.

You really should read posts all the way through before you respond to them. Due diligence my lady....due diligence.

* “Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a)

 

[pat34lee]

"The Sabbath is made for man and not man for the sabbath" is not written in scripture. It is written in the Talmud. IOW it was Oral Torah.

It was written in the Talmud anywhere from 50-300 years
after the New Testament was written. It's more likely that
they stole the saying from Yahushua than he from them.

 

[HARK!]

Which of the 10 commandments would apply directly to boundary markers ? I agree that the Mosaic laws , are also moral laws .

Which of the 10 commandments would apply directly to homosexual orgies? If you can answer that one; this one will stump you for sure:

Where is it directly commanded not to be a drunkard, ANYWHERE?

The preceding message does not support nor condone homosexuality, orgies, drunkenness, nor any combination thereof. No drunkards nor homosexuals were harmed in the creation of this message.

 

[gadar perets]

Jesus' teachings line up with Bet Hillel (with one exception -- that of divorce).

Exactly! You first said it was "imperative" that we obey the oral Torah. Now you are saying we need to obey the oral Torah of Bet Hillel, rather than Bet Shammai, but you are also saying we are to obey Bet Shammai rather than Bet Hillel regarding divorce. I submit to you that this example of divorce proves it is NOT imperative to obey the oral Torah because the oral Torah is saying two different things! We are to obey YHWH and Yeshua. Yeshua's teaching lined up with Bet Hillel only because Bet Hillel lined up with Torah in most areas. What about all those areas in the oral Torah that the NT doesn't touch on? For example, Bet Shammai says to light all eight Hannukah candles on the first day and then decrease by one each day while Bet Hillel says to light only one on the first day and increase by one each day. It is an utter impossibility to fully obey the oral Torah because while you may obey Bet Hillel, you will disobey Bet Shammai.

 

[pat34lee]

This is simply not true.

Proverbs 6:23 For this command is a lamp, this teaching is a light, and correction and instruction are the way to life

Proverbs 22:17 [ Thirty Sayings of the Wise ] [ Saying 1 ] Pay attention and turn your ear to the sayings of the wise; apply your heart to what I teach.

The goals are different.

A student learns what the teacher teaches.
A disciple acts like the master.

A student can outgrow and surpass a teacher.
A disciple can't. His best is to become just like the master.