how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
God tempts no man, God makes no man sin God cannot be tempted with evil, nor tempteth he any man, every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed.
Is Christ the minister of sin? God forbid
God worket no iniquity
it is impossible for God to lie
etc
God cannot deny himself and when men deny him, they do it of themselves.
God did not make Adam and Eve sin.
No, God gave them the freewill choice and Eve chose not to obey what God commanded and then Eve tempted Adam and then Adam was also disobedient.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No, God gave them the freewill choice and Eve chose not to obey what God commanded and then Eve tempted Adam and then Adam was also disobedient.
Yes i am saying God gave them a free will.

I am exposing "Soar Like and Eagle and the doctrine "Soar like an Eagle" speaks of
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
God is not angry with the loss He made them that way before there was ever a sin of Adam.

but

Psalm 7:11
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wickedevery day."

was what Adam and Eve did wicked sin? Yes.


Numbers 11:1-2
And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp. And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the LORD, the fire was quenched."

"
Numbers 32:13
And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed."

etc
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
God knows all things and plans all things and nothing happens outside of God's total sovereign will.


"35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."(Jeremiah 32;35 KJV)
 
Upvote 0

Soar Like and Eagle

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,175
171
73
Western NY
✟18,906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
but

Psalm 7:11
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wickedevery day."

was what Adam and Eve did wicked sin? Yes.


Numbers 11:1-2
And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp. And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the LORD, the fire was quenched."

"
Numbers 32:13
And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed."

etc
BIG difference between a God who is angry with sin and an angry God who is going to torture billions of people forever and ever and ever.

For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: ClementofA
Upvote 0

Soar Like and Eagle

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,175
171
73
Western NY
✟18,906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."(Jeremiah 32;35 KJV)
Are you really seriously trying to tell me God did not know this? He knows every hair on our head.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: ClementofA
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
So God is not sovereign and carnal man's will supersedes God?
Matthew 25:32-33 the goats will be separated from those on the right. Isaiah 1:9 only a small remnant will be saved. Micah 4:11 All natons will be against Christ when God declares Jerusalem his abode Ezekiel 34:17
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
BIG difference between a God who is angry with sin and an angry God who is going to torture billions of people forever and ever and ever.

For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
Wrong again

God is a holy, loving God who is angry at sin and sinners and his wrath is on them and will never leave them unless they repent and believe the gospel
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Are you really seriously trying to tell me God did not know this? He knows every hair on our head.
I just believe God's word it says

"neither came it into my mind"

so it seems your doctrine hits the scripture as in many cases I choose to believe God not your human understanding. You need to have spiritual understanding of these things, not natural learning. Greek and hebrew won't help you in many cases.
 
Upvote 0

Boaz308

Active Member
Dec 27, 2017
30
14
49
Tulsa
✟10,108.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"O.K. so, how do you people who believe in eternal torture in fire, how do you tuck your children in at night and explain to them that God loves you but if you don't love Him He is going to torture you in fire, not for the length of your favorite video, not for the length of a day, not even for the length of a year but it will be unending. Mommy and Daddy will be in heaven while you writhe in unimaginable suffering because this is what God does to those who don't love Him."

"So how do you explain to your children about God's love? Do you tell them the truth that you love your children more than God does and you would never harm your children even if they don't love you?"

"There has to come a time when you tell them the truth, don't you think?"

"This is not sarcasm. It is letting those who believe in eternal torment come to grips with their beliefs. If they are honest with themselves they have to tell their children these things.
After all, we wouldn't want to sugar coat something so serious as a loving God torturing people for billions and billions and billions and billions of years without end, those who do not love Him, now would we?"

"And if your children only love Him to escape such a fate, what kind of hypocritical love is that?"

"As a child, camping out, I would ask my friends as we sat around the campfire and looking into it: "How can God burn people in fire for e--t--e--r--n--i--t--y?" No one would say a word. But it always bugged me. As I grew up and started visiting hell-fire churches, it was psychologically horrifying. It's like the people that attend those churches do so for the thrill of having the begeebies scared out of them. Kind of like thrill seekers. I was so glad to leave that behind and find out about God's love and plan for all mankind."

----------------


"Yep. People who say that they believe in Hell aren't remotely serious. If they were, they would be catatonic."

---------------

"I went through a phase where I strongly believed in ET. I lost my appetite (and thus a lot of weight) and was constantly anxious. It was terrible."


--------------


"That is indeed the seat of a LOT of mental health concerns many Christians who subscribe to it suffer; consequently, I can understand certain over-the-top reactions by some
supposed non-believers."


------------


"Basically Hell is a component in an intellectual construct that many people toy with in their minds. Nobody believes in Hell in the same way that I believe that I love my daughter,
that my mother loves me, that the sky is blue, etc."

Concerning 1 Timothy 4:10

------------------------------------------------



Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

GOD doesn't torture anybody, you have to make the decision to reject him and follow the ways of Satan! Like by not believing him and his word. Rejection is the individuals choice not GOD'S.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,575
6,063
EST
✟991,946.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Nothing in the context can change the absoluteness of this:
Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…
According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined ..
..
That's what all the heterodox groups say. Context is the bane of such groups. Anybody can prove almost anything from the Bible by quoting selective verses out-of-context.
JPS Lam 3:22
(22) Surely the LORD'S mercies are not consumed, surely His compassions fail not.
LXX Lam 3:22
(22) It is the mercies of the Lord, that he has not failed me, because his compassions are not exhausted. Pity us, O Lord, early every month: for we are not brought to an end, because his compassions are not exhausted.

Lam 3:31-32
(31) For the Lord will not cast off for ever.
(32) For though He cause grief, yet will He have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies.
But let us consider.
LXX Lam 3:62-66
(62) The lips of those that rose up against me, and their device against me all the day.
(63) Behold their sitting down, and their rising up; I am their musick.
(64) Render unto them a recompence, O LORD, according to the work of their hands.
(65) Give them sorrow of heart, thy curse unto them.
(66) Persecute and destroy them in anger from under the heavens of the LORD.

Lam 5:22
(22) But thou hast utterly rejected us; Thou art very wroth against us.


 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Does not matter God knows everything or He is a god.
Satan is the Father of lies. God cannot lie or deny himself.

If Satan is the father of lies, then God did not make him do it in some secret forceful way.
 
Upvote 0

Soar Like and Eagle

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,175
171
73
Western NY
✟18,906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Satan is the Father of lies. God cannot lie or deny himself.

If Satan is the father of lies, then God did not make him do it in some secret forceful way.
Have been so locked in by the religious system you probably

Think Satan was an angel? Let us talk about Satan; who is Satan; was he and Angel; if so. Prove it.

Here are your two references that Baby-lon believer are Satan:


Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.


Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.

Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?

It is ANOTHER erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)

Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)

Now here is how I see it: Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

See God created Satan note for what purpose


Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings.

The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.

This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men.

Here is my last point. II Cor. 11:14. It says Satan is able to transform

himself into an angel of light, but according to the Greek, the word is not

transform -- it is MASQUERADE (Strong's). This is as close as he has ever been to being light -- as a masquerading actor. So Satan has masqueraded as an angel of light and has deceived the religious realm in believing this lie.

Wow. God Word even tells us. I guess you KJ people missed another truth
 
  • Informative
Reactions: ClementofA
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Have been so locked in by the religious system you probably

Think Satan was an angel? Let us talk about Satan; who is Satan; was he and Angel; if so. Prove it.

Here are your two references that Baby-lon believer are Satan:


Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.


Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.

Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?

It is ANOTHER erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)

Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)

Now here is how I see it: Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.

See God created Satan note for what purpose


Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..

I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings.

The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.

This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men.

Here is my last point. II Cor. 11:14. It says Satan is able to transform

himself into an angel of light, but according to the Greek, the word is not

transform -- it is MASQUERADE (Strong's). This is as close as he has ever been to being light -- as a masquerading actor. So Satan has masqueraded as an angel of light and has deceived the religious realm in believing this lie.

Wow. God Word even tells us. I guess you KJ people missed another truth
Isaiah 14:4 says very plainly it was addressed to a man the King of Babylon.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Think Satan was an angel? Let us talk about Satan; who is Satan;
You missed the point of my discussion. When i say that the devil (Satan) is the father of lies I was referring to the fact that God cannot lie and so the lies of the devil were not from God and God dent make him lie.

So when you say God Plans all things, you are wrong.

you do a classic things the cults do. When their argument fails they shift to another one and try to distract from the main weakness they are in. But I am not deceived by this tactic

and I can answer all your error about Satan. But maybe for another post.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Think Satan was an angel? Let us talk about Satan; who is Satan; was he and Angel; if so. Prove it.

Just a start

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the
great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for
the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for
the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when
the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."(Revelation 12:7-13 KJV)



Luke 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Shempster

ImJustMe
Supporter
Dec 28, 2014
1,560
786
✟258,881.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Isaiah 14:4 says very plainly it was addressed to a man the King of Babylon.
Yes. This verse refers to Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon who exalted himself and was reduced to insanity. He spent 7 years wallowing in the fields like a cow eating grass until he came to his senses. Afterwards, he exalted YHVH as the king of heaven. As far as I know, Satan refuses to bow in submission, so this does not refer to the "fall" of the devil at all.
The story of "Lucifer" to Satan is incorrect.
 
Upvote 0