Universal Salvation - Did you know that this is at the core of the Gospel?

[TheBibleIsTruth]

There is nobody that is wicked that goes to heaven. So again show me where it says how long those wicked wont be in Heaven.

The Bible says FOREVER that is WITHOUT END! But will you accept it?

 

[mkgal1]

If you disagree that "holiness" means "wholeness".....then what is YOUR interpretation of "holiness"?

Sanctification by God for his purposes. Lutherans do not understand it necessarily as a process of spiritual growth, moral progress, or self-insight, as you seem to imply. Sanctification involves our cooperation with God to serve in our vocations.

I would think that cooperating with God to serve in our vocations would be *part* of us becoming "holy" as He is holy.....but not ALL. What about little tinges of envy......or a bit of pride? Won't those things have to be purged as well in order for us to be restored....complete? To me....saying "sanctification by God for His purposes" is just another way of saying He's healing us.....making us whole, so I don't disagree with that.

 

[mkgal1]

Not according to YHWH, His Word, and His Spirit.
Whenever anyone will sit still long enough, and answer the probing questions , this is easily proven.

Whenever anyone volunteers sources without even asking for them,
sources that are opposed all the time to God's Word,

it is a slam dunk. (already done).

Show me where there's any opposition to God's word in any of what I've posted.

 

[Radagast]

I do not believe the bible to be the actual words of God or Jesus.
There is no objective truth in the bible only inferred truths.

In that case, I have nothing to say to you.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

The Bible says FOREVER that is WITHOUT END! But will you accept it?

No, because you have not shown me where it says that.

 

[mkgal1]

Heresy is not "new". It has been around since the first century.

Right...and the early church was diligent in forming doctrine--in unity--and declaring beliefs as heretical (or heterodox). While some of Origen's beliefs of the Trinity were declared heretical.....his belief of apokatastasis was never deemed to be heretical (and has remained a Greek Orthodox belief since).

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

No, because you have not shown me where it says that.

Matthew 25:46 where the two uses of "eternal" are equivalent

 

[mkgal1]

The Lutheran confessions seem to have a thing to say on the notion of apocatastasis, specifically the Augsburg Confession itself, and also the 1530 Confutation with the Romanists:





These documents have for us generally been understood to have the status of ecumenical councils, as true expositions of our faith. Of course they are not necessarily the final word on all things about God, but we cannot simply agree that apocatasis is true just because some ancient authority said so.

I'm not understanding what's in reference to apokatastasis?

You quoted this:

Article XVII
so they teach that at the Consummation of the World Christ will appear for judgment, and 2] will raise up all the dead; He will give to the godly and elect eternal life and everlasting joys, 3] but ungodly men and the devils He will condemn to be tormented without end.

4] They condemn the Anabaptists, who think that there will be an end to the punishments of condemned men and devils.

5] They condemn also others who are now spreading certain Jewish opinions, that before the resurrection of the dead the godly shall take possession of the kingdom of the world, the ungodly being everywhere suppressed.

and this:

To Article XVII.
The confession of the seventeenth article is received, since from the Apostles' Creed and the Holy Scripture the entire Catholic Church knows that Christ will come at the last day to judge the quick and the dead. Therefore they justly condemn here the Anabaptists, who think there will be an end of punishments to condemned men and devils, and imagine certain Jewish kingdoms of the godly, before the resurrection of the dead, in this present world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

Matthew 25:46 where the two uses of "eternal" are equivalent

The word used for eternal there is from aionios where it means age-enduring. Nothing there showing it to mean unending since the word doesn't speak to an endpoint at all but to a continuing point.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Right...and the early church was diligent in forming doctrine--in unity--and declaring beliefs as heretical (or heterodox). While some of Origen's beliefs of the Trinity were declared heretical.....his belief of apokatastasis was never deemed to be heretical (and has remained a Greek Orthodox belief since).

Your just talking yourself in circles with unfaithful sources.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

The word used for eternal there is from aionios where it means age-enduring. Nothing there showing it to mean unending since the word doesn't speak to an endpoint at all but to a continuing point.

So when Jesus promises eternal life to the sheep in John 10:28-29 He was lying?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In that case, I have nothing to say to you.

That's true also of several posters currently holding to heresy accepting man's feelings and words instead of God's Word.
Srill, though,
We reply not hoping to change their minds (although if YHWH permits we do pray it is so)
but for a false gospel such as universalism we are not technically supposed to carry on any conversation with them - only we have no way to silence them here, so we keep replying to the errors so others have the warning of quicksand and might be prevented from falling in with them who are trying to drag everyone down with them .......

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So when Jesus promises eternal life to the sheep in John 10:28-29 He was lying?

Different gospel, different jesus, for heresies that deny the truth and say that sinful men don't have to repent before they die to be saved,
different sources, different (and pernicious (death dealing) ) false teachings as noted throughout this thread and others like it.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

So when Jesus promises eternal life to the sheep in John 10:28-29 He was lying?

No as I said the word is aionios which means age-enduring. This age-enduring means that the life would be THROUGH the age into the NEXT age. So for example when you said they would receive punishment aionios it means the same that they would receive punisment that CONTINUES THROUGH the age into the next one. It never says unending or infers it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Show me where there's any opposition to God's word in any of what I've posted.

Pick any of your posts from the last several years.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

No as I said the word is aionios which means age-enduring. This age-enduring means that the life would be THROUGH the age into the NEXT age. So for example when you said they would receive punishment aionios it means the same that they would receive punisment that CONTINUES THROUGH the age into the next one. It never says unending or infers it.

Eternal life is WITHOUT END and so is eternal punishment. There is no difference except to those who wish to tamper with the Word of God

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No as I said the word is aionios which means age-enduring. This age-enduring means that the life would be THROUGH the age into the NEXT age. So for example when you said they would receive punishment aionios it means the same that they would receive punisment that CONTINUES THROUGH the age into the next one. It never says unending or infers it.

When you use different definitions than YHWH'S MEANING< that won't excuse any sins or souls lost on judgment day.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Eternal life is WITHOUT END and so is eternal punishment. There is no difference except to those who wish to tamper with the Word of God

One moment here........ there are sufficient evidences that eventually the fires of hell or of the lake/ judgments will simply cease and be no more, to not compare life with YHWH unending with "eternal punishment". (mainly, potentially , OTHER things in the BIBLE called "eternal" ended already, which need to look up to see).....

However, note that this sparks other useless debates with those who don't want to learn God's Word nor God's Right Judgment which never changes ---- the souls that sins dies without mercy on the basis of 2 witnesses, etc - the souls that are JUDGED ALREADY for their unbelief which never changes to belief,
may very well simply be destroyed -
this at least is not contrary to all Scripture as the false gospel of universalism is . But it does give them an excuse to make more noise.... (they don't really need an excuse - with all of us gone they would still be trying to drag other souls down to perdition anyway, only without any hope for those who fall for their heretical teaching/false gospel.)

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

One moment here........ there are sufficient evidences that eventually the fires of hell or of the lake/ judgments will simply cease and be no more, to not compare life with YHWH unending with "eternal punishment". (mainly, potentially , OTHER things in the BIBLE called "eternal" ended already, which need to look up to see).....

However, note that this sparks other useless debates with those who don't want to learn God's Word nor God's Right Judgment which never changes ---- the souls that sins dies without mercy on the basis of 2 witnesses, etc - the souls that are JUDGED ALREADY for their unbelief which never changes to belief,
may very well simply be destroyed -
this at least is not contrary to all Scripture as the false gospel of universalism is . But it does give them an excuse to make more noise.... (they don't really need an excuse - with all of us gone they would still be trying to drag other souls down to perdition anyway, only without any hope for those who fall for their heretical teaching/false gospel.)

In Matthew 25 :46 ETERNAL is EQUIVALENT in both uses

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In Matthew 25 :46 ETERNAL is EQUIVALENT in both uses

Maybe truth. Maybe not. Just in case, so to speak, compare ALL the occurences in Scripture and see how often something "eternal" OR "forever" OR "everlasting" etc etc is something not eternal. (ENGLISH is a horrible language for this).
There is not time nor space on this forum for this - take many days, check every occurrence from Genesis thru Revelation....

Just as there is NEVER universalism in any way supported,
(it is always heresy , always a FALSE GOSPEL),

still also the limits YHWH establishes are often not recognized correctly either.