Is there a gap between 1 Corinthians 15:23 and verse 24?

[Davy]

This is fulfilled. Jesus already has this authority from the Father, and He will give this same authority to the ones who continue His work until the end.

Revelation 2:26-27
And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. 27He (the ones Jesus will give authority) will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery—just as I (Jesus) HAVE RECEIVED authority from My Father.
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The belief that Jesus is not currently reigning as King of kings and Lord of lords is one of the main reasons I cannot get behind pre-mil. If the following descriptions don't describe Jesus as currently being King of kings and Lord of lords, then I don't know what does:
....

If you believe our Lord Jesus is NOW reigning over the nations on earth today, then you have a lot of disappointment coming, that is if you live to see the coming time of great tribulation He warned us about. I'd also advice you to not travel to any radical Islamic country today like Iran, or Sudan, or Lebanon, or Libya, or any Muslim faction area in Indonesia, or Africa, etc., because you won't find Jesus reigning there at all! Same can be said for North Korea, Cuba, China, and any other Communist nation.

 

[1stcenturylady]

This is fulfilled. Jesus already has this authority from the Father, and He will give this same authority to the ones who continue His work until the end.

Revelation 2:26-27
And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. 27He (the ones Jesus will give authority) will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery—just as I (Jesus) HAVE RECEIVED authority from My Father.
___________________________________________________________________

The belief that Jesus is not currently reigning as King of kings and Lord of lords is one of the main reasons I cannot get behind pre-mil. If the following descriptions don't describe Jesus as currently being King of kings and Lord of lords, then I don't know what does:

1.) ALL authority in heaven and on earth was given to Jesus
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

2.) Jesus sat down on the Father's throne (position of authority) when he ascended.
Revelation 3:21
To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

3.) The Father's throne (position of authority) was the throne that David and Solomon sat down on. This authority was first given to David, but he could never sit on it eternally. Thus when Jesus sat down on the Fathers throne (revelation 3:21) He was the fulfillment of the offspring sitting on David's throne forever.
1 Chronicles 29:23
Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king in place of David his father. And he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.

4.) Christ was given sovereign authority over all nations (kings and names) on earth and in heaven, not just during the age of the disciples, but in the age to come
Ephesians 1:20-21
which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come.
1 Peter 3:22
Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

5.) Jason, a disciple, and other disciples were accused of claiming that there was a King above Caesar: Jesus Christ
Acts 17:6-7
But when they could not find them, they dragged Jason and some other brothers before the city officials, shouting, “These men who have turned the world upside down have now come here, 7and Jason has welcomed them into his home. They are all defying Caesar’s decrees, saying there is another king, named Jesus!”
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I believe God is currently king over the heavens and the earth.
I believe Jesus is God.
I believe Jesus is currently king over the heavens and the earth.

To deny these truths is to deny the Father and the Son.

Just to be clear. Do you believe in a future second coming where Christ returns, or has He already done that through His church?

 

[Davy]

Just to be clear. Do you believe in a future second coming where Christ returns, or has He already done that through His church?

You mean do I think Full Preterism which believes Jesus' 2nd coming already happened back in His Apostle's days? NO WAY do I believe such garbage.

The events and timing of Christ's 2nd coming back to this earth are clear enough in God's Word. He will return, literally, to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from, as written (Zech.14; Acts 1). And all... eyes will see Him coming in the clouds (Rev.1). That of course was never... recorded in history as already having happened, nor has it happened yet today.

 

[claninja]

If you believe our Lord Jesus is NOW reigning over the nations on earth today, then you have a lot of disappointment coming, that is if you live to see the coming time of great tribulation He warned us about. I'd also advice you to not travel to any radical Islamic country today like Iran, or Sudan, or Lebanon, or Libya, or any Muslim faction area in Indonesia, or Africa, etc., because you won't find Jesus reigning there at all! Same can be said for North Korea, Cuba, China, and any other Communist nation.

Is God not the King of the universe when there is tribulation? Of course He is! God is always the King of the universe

God was the King of the universe when adam and eve fell
God was the King of the universe when cain killed abel
God was the King of the universe when Joseph was sold into slavery
God was the King of the universe even when Israel wanted a physical human king.
God was the King of the universe when the OT prophets were killed by unfaithful Israel
God was the King of the universe when Israel was ruled by gentiles from babylon to rome
God was the King of the universe when his Son died at the hands of men
God was the King of the universe when the disciples were persecuted and killed

God is always the King of the universe. There is never a time when God is not King of the universe. Just because there are trials and tribulations does not mean God is not in sovereign control. One must completely ignore the scriptures on Christs current authority to say he does not have all authority over heaven and earth. Do you deny that Christ is God?

 

[claninja]

Just to be clear. Do you believe in a future second coming where Christ returns, or has He already done that through His church?

What does this question have to do with Christ's current authority?

 

[1stcenturylady]

What does this question have to do with Christ's current authority?

Didn't you see that I agreed with you on that post???

 

[Davy]

Is God not the King of the universe when there is tribulation? Of course He is! God is always the King of the universe

God was the King of the universe when adam and eve fell
God was the King of the universe when cain killed abel
God was the King of the universe when Joseph was sold into slavery
God was the King of the universe even when Israel wanted a physical human king.
God was the King of the universe when the OT prophets were killed by unfaithful Israel
God was the King of the universe when Israel was ruled by gentiles from babylon to rome
God was the King of the universe when his Son died at the hands of men
God was the King of the universe when the disciples were persecuted and killed

God is always the King of the universe. There is never a time when God is not King of the universe. Just because there are trials and tribulations does not mean God is not in sovereign control. One must completely ignore the scriptures on Christs current authority to say he does not have all authority over heaven and earth. Do you deny that Christ is God?

God also expects His children to use common sense and be wise as serpents, and not allow any man to deceive us. To ignore the realities of wickedness going on in this world and saying our Lord Jesus is reigning over that is not facing the reality of this world which Satan is given to reign over until... Jesus' second coming.

To believe what you're saying, you would have to believe the garbage lie that Jesus' second coming has already happened! And that idea truly is... garbage, a huge stack of it too!

 

[BABerean2]

God also expects His children to use common sense and be wise as serpents, and not allow any man to deceive us. To ignore the realities of wickedness going on in this world and saying our Lord Jesus is reigning over that is not facing the reality of this world which Satan is given to reign over until... Jesus' second coming.

To believe what you're saying, you would have to believe the garbage lie that Jesus' second coming has already happened! And that idea truly is... garbage, a huge stack of it too!

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.


He did cast out devils about 2,000 years ago.
Therefore, some aspect of the kingdom came into being at that time.

It will be completed at His future Second Coming.

In Acts 2:36 Peter said on the Day of Pentecost that Jesus was both Lord (King) and Christ (Messiah) on that day.

His victory occurred at the Cross.

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

.

 

[Davy]

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.


He did cast out devils about 2,000 years ago.
Therefore, some aspect of the kingdom came into being at that time.

It will be completed at His future Second Coming.

In Acts 2:36 Peter said on the Day of Pentecost that Jesus was both Lord (King) and Christ (Messiah) on that day.

His victory occurred at the Cross.

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

.

The devil has only one main use for that kind of false view from men's doctrines. It's to try and establish a kingdom on earth prepared for him by Christ's own deceived people. Afterall, in Isaiah 14 God did mock Satan as saying that he would sit over the congregation, meaning over God's people playing God. And that exactly is what Apostle Paul was warning us about the coming Antichrist to Jerusalem in 2 Thess.2.

So if you don't care about our Lord's and His Apostle's warnings of the coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem for the end, then go to, keep trying to build Christ's kingdom here on earth for Satan to take over when he gets here, because Satan is coming here first, prior to Christ's return. And when Jesus returns, that... is when He will establish HIS Kingdom here on earth, and not before. So go ahead sucker, keep following the NWO hosts that have infiltrated many of the mainstream Church organizations.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[LastSeven]

If you believe our Lord Jesus is NOW reigning over the nations on earth today, then you have a lot of disappointment coming, that is if you live to see the coming time of great tribulation He warned us about. I'd also advice you to not travel to any radical Islamic country today like Iran, or Sudan, or Lebanon, or Libya, or any Muslim faction area in Indonesia, or Africa, etc., because you won't find Jesus reigning there at all! Same can be said for North Korea, Cuba, China, and any other Communist nation.

You seem to have this idea that during the thousand year reign there will be peace on earth. Where did you get that idea from?

 

[LastSeven]

Why do you think the angel looked in heaven for a man that could open the sealed book?
Revelation 5:3
"...no man in heaven, nor in the earth....under the earth...able to open the book, neither to look thereon."

God took Enoch to where?
We shall all be changed at the last trump.
The dead in Christ and those still alive. So, where does that leave Enoch? Is he still alive since then on the earth today? Did God take him to heaven in his translated body?
What does a translated body look like? Is that the same thing as an eternal life body? no ///He has not yet seen the first type of death, or did God just take him to be safe somewhere and had him live out the rest of his days on the earth? Did God translate him and his being now looked so different that other people just did not recognize him there?
I believe that Enoch will be back as one of the two witnesses. He could not have been left on the earth - as during the days of Noah at the time of the flood -he would have died - drowned as among the wicked. He was before the time of Abraham as to those that had left a country and looked for a new one.

So if Enoch went to heaven, and Jesus said no-one has gone to heaven, how do you reconcile that?

 

[claninja]

So, where does that leave Enoch?

According to the author of Hebrews, Enoch did not see death, but he still died and did not receive what was promised:


By faith Enoch was translated -- not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to -- that he had pleased God well,
Hebrews 11:5

In faith died all these, not having received the promises, but from afar having seen them, and having been persuaded, and having saluted [them], and having confessed that strangers and sojourners they are upon the earth,
Hebrews 11:13

And Enoch could not be made perfect apart from the body of Christ:

God for us something better having provided, that apart from us they might not be made perfect.
Hebrews 11:40


This reconciles nicely with John 3:13

Why do you think the angel looked in heaven for a man that could open the sealed book?
Revelation 5:3
"...no man in heaven, nor in the earth....under the earth...able to open the book, neither to look thereon."

Was Christ not in heaven?

And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”
Revelation 5:5

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[claninja]

Hebrews 11 is split into sections. Enoch is of those in faith, but he did not come out a country and became a stranger like Abraham did. Verse 13 "These all died in faith...v15...country of whence they came out..."

These having all died in faith is a part that only goes back to verse 8 as to those that came out of a country.

Hebrews 11:8
"...Abraham...called to go out..."
Hebrews 11:13
"These all died....."
Hebrews 11:15
"...they came out..."

The "All these people were still living by faith when they died." clearly refers to the list of people before this statement living by faith: Abel through Jacob.

Maybe if the author didn't state abel, enoch, and noah lived by faith, you would have an argument.



How do you reconcile enoch going straight to heaven, if Jesus said no had ascended to the father?

 

[claninja]

Seems that the saints as souls are in heaven and will come back

"seems"

Yes, this is an assumption that has been made based on a vague sentence and attempting to fit it into a certain view of eschatology. The direction of the saints is not explicitly given. But we can find a very clear verse to help us:


IF the soul goes directly to heaven in the presence of God BEFORE the resurrection, then Paul is wrong:
1 Corinthians 15:32
If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”d


Why would we ascend to heaven BEFORE the resurrection IF Christ ascended AFTER the resurrection???

 

[claninja]

To believe what you're saying, you would have to believe the garbage lie that Jesus' second coming has already happened!

Do you not believe Jesus had all authority over heaven and earth before he ascended?

Is there something that is currently outside the control of God?

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Matthew 28:18

 

[Davy]

Do you not believe Jesus had all authority over heaven and earth before he ascended?

Is there something that is currently outside the control of God?

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Matthew 28:18

You know, actually, our Lord Jesus had Authority before... this world began, as The Father created all things through Jesus, as written. Jesus was ordained before the foundation of the world to be born of woman like us and die on the cross. That's the Victory you're talking about He accomplished for us, and it includes everlasting life for those who believe. But ALAS... you're still in a liable to die flesh body today, aren't you? All things are in His power, but that does not mean what all He promised us is fulfilled just yet!

So no future wishing-well mystical states please. We have work to do for our Lord Jesus still during this present world. And things ain't exactly too pretty in this world today, and they are going to get worse before Jesus destroys all wickedness in the future. So instead of settling for the corruptions of this world today, you might want to think about the world to come, because that's the one our Lord Jesus is going reign absolute in.

 

[claninja]

You know, actually, our Lord Jesus had Authority before... this world began, as The Father created all things through Jesus, as written.

Hey look at that. We agree on something.

But ALAS... you're still in a liable to die flesh body today, aren't you?

I absolute am.

All things are in His power, but that does not mean what all He promised us is fulfilled just yet!

Wasn’t too concerned about fulfilled or unfulfilled promises, only in the current authority of Christ. Which it appears we agree, all things are in his power.

So instead of settling for the corruptions of this world today, you might want to think about the world to come, because that's the one our Lord Jesus is going reign absolute in.

Hey friend I agree with you. To live is Christ to die is gain