Is there a gap between 1 Corinthians 15:23 and verse 24?

[claninja]

What does this have to do with anything? Obviously those currently in hell awaiting the resurrection unto damnation, are alive as well, in some sense.

So you believe people who have already died are currently alive in either heaven or hell?

That would mean death is already defeated for those in heaven.

So The last enemy is already defeated?

 

[claninja]

Jesus Chris will touch down on Mt. Olivet, as the world is destroyed by his fire in judgment, as the eternal new heaven, earth, Jerusalem are revealed, judgment complete all in the twinkling of an eye.

So it appears you agree that Jesus is in heaven, reigning, until his return With the last enemy of death to be defeated.

Death being swallowed up in victory, simply means this physical earth, with human life will be passed away, the eternal lake of fire, and eternal kingdom has started in the glorified immortal body.

So no one is currently alive with the Lord in heaven?

 

[DavidPT]

So you believe people who have already died are currently alive in either heaven or hell?

That would mean death is already defeated for those in heaven.

So The last enemy is already defeated?

They're not alive bodily. I'm meaning their souls and that ones' soul apparently leaves the body upon death and has to go somewhere. By alive I'm meaning they are in a conscience state wherever their souls depart to upon death, be that heaven, or be that hell.

 

[DavidPT]

Christ is at the right hand of the Father, in heaven, until his enemies are made a footstool.

For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”’
Acts 2:34-35

And the last enemy to be put under his feet is death. So Christ is at the right hand of the Father, in heaven, until death is put under his feet

For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1 Corinthians 15:25-26





How can Christ come back to the earth before death is destroyed, if he must be in heaven until all his enemies are made a footstool?

It looks like we both have a problem then. Because how can death already be destroyed before the sheep and goats judgment takes place? Where that judgment involves Christ here bodily upon the earth.

 

[claninja]

It looks like we both have a problem then. Because how can death already be destroyed before the sheep and goats judgment takes place? Where that judgment involves Christ here bodily upon the earth.

I agree, For futurist/dispensationalist theologies, these are contradictions that seriously need to be addressed

 

[claninja]

They're not alive bodily. I'm meaning their souls and that ones' soul apparently leaves the body upon death and has to go somewhere. By alive I'm meaning they are in a conscience state wherever their souls depart to upon death, be that heaven, or be that hell.

Well, we know from the words of Christ, that no one had ever ascended to heaven

13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
John 3:13-14

Not even the OT saints were able to receive the promise before Christ:

And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
Hebrews 11:39-40


Even after Christ was raised from the dead, Paul still states believers were still sleeping

Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:6

Paul goes even further to explain that if Christ isn’t raised then those who are sleeping have perished (that doesn’t sound like people have immortal souls).

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1 Corinthians 15:17-18

He goes even farther again, to say that if there is no ressurection, than nothing matters for tomorrow we die.

But if the soul goes to heaven, as you say it does, well than there is hope in life after death
before the ressurection, which is the opposite of what Paul says

What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”
1 Corinthians 15:32

Christ is the 1st fruit of being raised from the dead and ascending to the Father.

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:20

And here is my biggest point:

If Christ did not ascend to heaven until AFTER he was raised (John 20:17), why would we ascend to heaven BEFORE being raised?

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

I notice a lot of folks around here give great advice like this, but then when one examines some of their conclusions as to what this Scripture means, or that one means, etc, such as some of your conclusions in this post I'm addressing, I'm left wondering why they too are not following their own advice at times, but expect everyone else to?

(There is no gap (referring back to the OP) and the opening scripture, looking to the preceding verses speaks to the matter...)
Perception is everything (and each perceives from where they are at...as in the questions asked of Adam in the garden (after the deep slumber and change of eyesight), "Where art thou?", "Who told you...?", and "Hast thou eaten...?")
So you use your perception to tell me perception has nothing to do with it. The spirit of truth is promised to give revelation. When we take thought and try to fit things together, we come up with something other than the truth. The whole of scripture is about renewing/reconciling us inwardly/inner being. Why are you trying to figure out some

1 Corinthians 2:9-11 Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him. But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.…

Man looks to literal, outside of self events. The truth is within you/us.

 

[LastSeven]

They're not alive bodily. I'm meaning their souls and that ones' soul apparently leaves the body upon death and has to go somewhere. By alive I'm meaning they are in a conscience state wherever their souls depart to upon death, be that heaven, or be that hell.

A lot of people use the word "soul" as though it's something separate from the body, but according to Genesis 2:7 a soul is a living creature, not separate from the body, but rather a body which has life.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The Greek word used is nephesh and it means: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. If you don't know what the words mean, how can you possibly hope to know what the sentences mean?

 

[DavidPT]

Well, we know from the words of Christ, that no one had ever ascended to heaven

13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
John 3:13-14

Not even the OT saints were able to receive the promise before Christ:

And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
Hebrews 11:39-40


Even after Christ was raised from the dead, Paul still states believers were still sleeping

Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:6

Paul goes even further to explain that if Christ isn’t raised then those who are sleeping have perished (that doesn’t sound like people have immortal souls).

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1 Corinthians 15:17-18

He goes even farther again, to say that if there is no ressurection, than nothing matters for tomorrow we die.

But if the soul goes to heaven, as you say it does, well than there is hope in life after death
before the ressurection, which is the opposite of what Paul says

What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”
1 Corinthians 15:32

Christ is the 1st fruit of being raised from the dead and ascending to the Father.

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:20

And here is my biggest point:

If Christ did not ascend to heaven until AFTER he was raised (John 20:17), why would we ascend to heaven BEFORE being raised?

There's a very good chance you could be correct here. I fully acknowledge you could be correct rather than I, in this case. As a matter of fact, though it might not seem like it from my posts, I have actually been thinking along some of these same lines myself for quite some time now. In the meantime, I'm still processing all these things in order to fully decide which is more likely, Biblically speaking.

 

[DavidPT]

A lot of people use the word "soul" as though it's something separate from the body, but according to Genesis 2:7 a soul is a living creature, not separate from the body, but rather a body which has life.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The Greek word used is nephesh and it means: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. If you don't know what the words mean, how can you possibly hope to know what the sentences mean?

You being Amil and all, and the fact Revelation 20:4 mentions souls in relation to the first resurrection, and that you don't take that resurrection to be meaning bodily, your post here is a bit puzzling to me since I'm apparently failing to grasp how what you say here fits with the souls in Revelation 20:4 per your Amil POV?

 

[LastSeven]

You being Amil and all, and the fact Revelation 20:4 mentions souls in relation to the first resurrection, and that you don't take that resurrection to be meaning bodily, your post here is a bit puzzling to me since I'm apparently failing to grasp how what you say here fits with the souls in Revelation 20:4 per your Amil POV?

It's not a problem at all. Those "souls" and the thrones upon which they sit are a direct reference to the people Paul referred to in Ephesians 2:4-6

Ephesians 2:4-6
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus

In other words, those "souls" are the believers in Christ. They're not literally in heaven, just as we are not literally in heaven, but we are spiritually seated on thrones with Christ, just as we were spiritually crucified with him and raised with him.

Remember, John is describing what he sees in his "vision". He's not seeing literal things. Most of what he sees is symbolic. He didn't witness a sword literally coming out of Jesus' mouth, nor did he witness a literal dragon, or a beast, or a harlot. Nor did he witness literal marks on hands and foreheads or literal people sitting on literal thrones. It's all symbolism.

 

[Truth7t7]

So it appears you agree that Jesus is in heaven, reigning, until his return With the last enemy of death to be defeated.




So no one is currently alive with the Lord in heaven?

Being spiritually alive in heaven has absolutely nothing to do with "Physical Death" being swallowed up in victory.

You are a Preterist and don't believe in a future "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ.

At this future second coming, physical death will be abolished, the eternal glorified body will be received.

 

[LastSeven]

There's a very good chance you could be correct here. I fully acknowledge you could be correct rather than I, in this case. As a matter of fact, though it might not seem like it from my posts, I have actually been thinking along some of these same lines myself for quite some time now. In the meantime, I'm still processing all these things in order to fully decide which is more likely, Biblically speaking.

If you're interested in this subject, I did a study on it which you may find helpful.
What Happens When You Die.docx

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[DavidPT]

Being spiritually alive in heaven has absolutely nothing to do with "Physical Death" being swallowed up in victory.

You are a Preterist and don't believe in a future "Second Coming" of Jesus Christ.

At this future second coming, physical death will be abolished, the eternal glorified body will be received.

I guess I missed the fact this poster is a Preterist. I for sure don't agree with Preterism. But that doesn't mean Preterists can't be correct about some things though.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Truth7t7]

"When this corruptible...incorruption...then ...brought to pass...death is swallowed up in victory."

This is not about the wicked being raised from the dead.

Its about the "End Of This Physical World"

1 Corinthians 15:23-24 afterward they that are Christ's at his coming, "Then Cometh The End"

No 1000 year gap between verses 23-24

This resurrection of the believer takes place on "The Last Day" as Jesus Taught John 6:40

"All" that are in the grave will come forth, both righteous and wicked John 5:28-29

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm