The Church and the Messianic movement

[Heber Book List]

I understand and agree. I often cut short my post so people do not have to do a lot of needless reading. Sometimes there is just a lot that needs to be said. Don't forget, there are people who come here that have never heard some of the things we talk about. It's new to them.

An example is, when quoting scripture, there is no need to actually post the text, just the reference will do because even if someone doesn't have a Bible, hovering the mouse over the link brings the words to the screen.

Links to Wikipedia, with a description about the point being made, is better than reams of text to plough through. If people are interested they will go Wikipedia (or whatever) and read it, if they are not, they won't

 

[CherubRam]

An example is, when quoting scripture, there is no need to actually post the text, just the reference will do because even if someone doesn't have a Bible, hovering the mouse over the link brings the words to the screen.

Yes, but often the verse is not correct, and that is the point being made. I often have people complain that I did not say enough. Oh well!

 

[Heber Book List]

Yes, but often the verse is not correct, and that is the point being made. I often have people complain that I did not say enough. Oh well!

I enjoy reading lots of posts - yours as well - but I just can't be bothered when it is very long, whoever the poster is I guess it is about having a balance

 

[CherubRam]

I enjoy reading lots of posts - yours as well - but I just can't be bothered when it is very long, whoever the poster is I guess it is about having a balance

A person always has the choice of cutting short what they are reading.

 

[Christie insb]

It only has the baggage you personally attach. Whatever else it has, it deserves, and assembly doesn't get you away from it. I have no problems with it sounding religious, as serving God is a religious thing to do.

Yes. As people who are Torah-keepers, it seems odd to me that you would want your place of worship to sound less religious. I have a tendency to call Messianic churches "congregations" though. I think it does have to do with using words less offensive to Jews, which is sort of pointless anyway, what with our Messiah and all.

 

[Christie insb]

A person always has the choice of cutting short what they are reading.

They do. I don't remember you being such a long poster myself. Sometimes it is necessary to write a long post to make your point, but I sometimes probably err on the side usually of making too many short posts and getting repetitive.

 

[Soyeong]

We used to have a saying on these fora several years ago: Shorter posts are more likely to be read!

Not addressed to everyone, but I do not bother reading posts that really long

I try to be thorough in my explanations, especially when explaining a viewpoint that someone is unfamiliar with, but perhaps you can just read the first few paragraphs would be sufficient?

 

[Heber Book List]

I try to be thorough in my explanations, especially when explaining a viewpoint that someone is unfamiliar with, but perhaps you can just read the first few paragraphs would be sufficient?

I would have expected that you would have seen my comments about quotes from various sources - to give a link AND to write the material. verbatim, is not essential, I am sure

 

[Open Heart]

Yes. As people who are Torah-keepers, it seems odd to me that you would want your place of worship to sound less religious. I have a tendency to call Messianic churches "congregations" though. I think it does have to do with using words less offensive to Jews, which is sort of pointless anyway, what with our Messiah and all.

I usually call MJ houses of worship synagogues, since I consider MJ a Judaism which accepts Yeshua as Messiah.

 

[pat34lee]

In other words, they met in homes because either the community could not support a synagogue, they were persecuted, or just because they had to - not because they thought it was the best way to meet or the "right way" necessarily. Either way, they initially met in synagogues and the temple; so if we want to go back to the original we should start meeting in the synagogues again......maybe Messianic Synagogues...

Synagogues were where they went for the basics. Jesus
taught his disciples in homes and on the road.

 

[pat34lee]

The website IS a "Hebrew Roots" website, so yes it is pro-Law and anti-Church. However, I didn't see anything anti-Church on the particular page link you gave me and couldn't find one on the site with a cursory look around. I'm sure if I got into the articles it might be in there.

I don't like the description of Hebrew Roots as anti-church,
as the people are the church, not the organization. HR is
against the paganism brought into Rome's Christian theology.

 

[tampasteve]

Synagogues were where they went for the basics. Jesus taught his disciples in homes and on the road.

Yes Yeshua taught on the road as well as in synagogues and homes, but Jewish Believers and the early non-Jewish believers met in synagogues where they were as well as homes. This really is not questionable, it is provable by archaeology, history, and tradition. Essentially, Jewish people had been meeting for services, instruction, and Torah study in synagogues for centuries and the early believers continued to do so as well, they also met in homes of course - and at the Temple in Jerusalem while it stood. So, they were not just there for the basics, they were there for the full life cycle of events just as any other Jewish or G-d Fearer would be. Things changed of course after they were expelled from the Jewish community or where there was no Jewish community to start with.

 

[pat34lee]

I feel that God "is not willing that any should perish." I know the universal Church has been seriously off at times, but what about the renewals within the Church? What about the sincere believers throughout the centuries? He implies that somehow, a true ekklesia has existed separate from the Holy catholic and universal Church.

About the terms. The easiest to understand is the body.
The body isn't the building or the organization, or even
all the people there, but the believers only. In a church
building, 75% or more may be unbelievers. Consider
that perhaps most preachers are also lost. There is a
remnant always who serve God, but only a remnant.

 

[pat34lee]

Essentially, Jewish people had been meeting for services, instruction, and Torah study in synagogues for centuries and the early believers continued to do so as well, they also met in homes of course - and at the Temple in Jerusalem while it stood. So, they were not just there for the basics, they were there for the full life cycle of events just as any other Jewish or G-d Fearer would be. Things changed of course after they were expelled from the Jewish community or where there was no Jewish community to start with.

The synagogues are post-Babylon, so at most, maybe
150-200 years before NT times? OT instructions were
to teach all this at the home, all the time. Synagogues
were a nice addition, as long as we don't forget our
own responsibility.

Deuteronomy 6:4-9
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

 

[tampasteve]

The synagogues are post-Babylon, so at most, maybe
150-200 years before NT times? OT instructions were
to teach all this at the home, all the time. Synagogues
were a nice addition, as long as we don't forget our
own responsibility.

Deuteronomy 6:4-9
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

I agree with what you are saying. But to set the dates better, synagogues started during the Babylonian Captivity which was around 586-537 BC, so quite a while before NT times and longer that 150-200 years. Archaeology from Egypt shows a stone synagogue from around 300 BC, so they were widespread enough by that time.