Could ANY conservative President not be hated? Thanks Trump...

Maren

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You're right, it's didn't triple. It doubled. Sorry.

Here's how much debt the US government added under President Obama

58814485f10a9a6d008b926f-1200


Thus, the national debt under Obama will have grown by about $9 trillion, or an increase of 86%.

Here's how much debt the US government added under President Obama

I can understand though, why you don't want this brought up.

And, yet, you ignore that Pres. Bush, the one that preceded Obama, raised the debt by 101%, and even Pres. (St.) Reagan raised the debt by 186%. Strange that Conservatives only care about the debt being raised when it occurs under a Democratic President.

Oh, also, since you brought it up (and forgive the edit, but figured it was better than adding a new post), why are you only using the Workforce Participation numbers under Obama? The numbers are virtually unchanged under Trump (maybe a 0.1% increase) -- so I guess by your logic we are still in the recession?
 
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iluvatar5150

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It would appear that the sharp upward trajectory began before he took office though.

And the downward curve afternue took office means the growth rate (ie the deficit) was slowing/shrinking.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Liberal haters have been hating conservatives since Goldwater, at least. They hate what isn't liberal. Trump just gave them additional excuses. Had he run as a Democrat in 2004, they would have fawned over him however, and they would have glossed over his character issues just like they did with Clinton's.
What character issues does Trump have that his conservative supporters aren't glossing over?
 
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KCfromNC

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mark46

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pakicetus

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I'm not sure of your point. Goldwater also opposed Social Security.
Oh so he was even more terrible.
He wanted much less government intervention, especially at the federal level. With regard to the civil rights, he didn't think that this was a matter for federal legislation.
Yeah, and that's horrifying. Black people in the South didn't even have the right to vote. 93% of Southern Congressmen voted against the Civil Rights Act. Desegregation was not gonna happen without federal legislation.

This is one of the main things I don't like about American politics: A politician can justify any cruelty by saying he believes in "small government principles." If you ask me, it's sick to be so singularly focused on the size of the federal government that you want to terrorize black people and let old people die in poverty. I understand if deregulation was a priority for Goldwater, but some things should clearly, without question, take precedence over it, just like anything else. It's not like the Civil Rights Act or Social Security turned America into a dictatorship; they were entirely sensible government actions that people take for granted today.

No politician even consistently believes in small government. Take a look at all the politicians in your lifetime who've said we shouldn't do much about civil rights or poverty because small government is sacred. Then ask yourself how much their principles have meant to them when it comes to stopping gay people from marrying, or maintaining a larger military budget than the next eight countries combined, or imprisoning more people than any other country on Earth. The fact is that they have no "small government principles": they have screwed up priorities.
 
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pakicetus

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To demonstrate the nature of right-wing libertarianism, here's a little history I was just reading about. In the first big rally of his presidential campaign, Goldwater accused LBJ of "fomenting violence, destruction and disobedience" by supporting civil rights protests, and argued that "integration is a problem of the heart and of the mind. . . . You cannot pass a law that will make me like you—or you like me." Then Roy Wilkins, the president of the NAACP and one of the "Big Six" civil rights leaders, sent him this message in response:

Your declaration that the election of your party to power would cool the fires of racial strife ignores that that strife has grown out of the refusal of certain states to initiate corrective measures themselves or to permit the federal government to protect the Constitutional rights of United States citizens residing within their boundaries. The history on this issue is clear and is written in blood, all the way from the Civil War to the assassination of Medgar Evers in Jackson, Mississippi. Your record is clear also. You have stated repeatedly that you believe in leaving civil rights matters to the states. Regardless of how you rationalize your position, you grant immunity to, if you do not affirmatively support, the use of the cattle prods and shotguns of Alabama state troopers, the armored tank and dogs and fire hoses of the Birmingham police, the bomb murderers of little children in church in Alabama and the assassins in Mississippi. . . . There is no bill pending in any legislature which, to use your completely misleading language, seeks to force anyone to like anyone else. The pending civil rights bill seeks to secure the elementary rights to which every American citizen is entitled whether anyone likes him or not.
 
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mark46

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No politician even consistently believes in small government.

I disagree. There used to be a libertarian wing of the Republican Party. Goldwater did indeed consistently believe in small government.
 
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Belk

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You're making unsubstantiated claims about my standards. I'm attempting to correct your understanding of them. What I heard about the dressing rooms was that these were not prepubescent children, but teenagers. He walked through them which he shouldn't have done, but those conditions do not meet those of pedophilia.

What about the 13 year old who accused him of rape?
 
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Belk

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I did not hear about that. What's your source?

The lawsuit she filed against him during the campaign.

In the lawsuit the plaintiff, identifed by the pseudonym Jane Doe, alleges Mr Trump "initiated sexual contact" with her at four different parties when she was 13.

At the fourth encounter, she alleges he tied her to a bed "then proceeded to forcibly rape" her.

She says she was lured to the parties, held by billionaire-paedophile Jeffrey Epstein - who is also a defendant in the case - "by promises of money and a modeling career".

The Donald Trump underage rape accusation explained
 
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iluvatar5150

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I don't know. He ran for office in 1964. The war wasn't an issue in that campaign.

It sure was. LBJ's campaign painted Goldwater as a warmonger. I don't know how accurate those charges were - Goldwater said we should let the Vietnamese handle it, but also advocated for looser use of tactical nukes in the region.
 
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FireDragon76

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I don't think Trump is a true conservative in the traditional sense, he's more of a demagogue who doesn't mind flirting with extreme politics. He's far too chaotic and unreasonable.

True conservatives are getting squeezed in the Republican party. I don't think someone like George W Bush would stand a chance now days.
 
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mark46

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iluvatar5150

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Aryeh Jay

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If you haven't seen Ken Burns' Vietnam series, it's worth watching.

I remember watching a documentary about Vietnam, The 10,000 Day War, that covered a lot more information than “Missing in Action” and “Rambo”.
 
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Maren

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I don't think Trump is a true conservative in the traditional sense, he's more of a demagogue who doesn't mind flirting with extreme politics. He's far too chaotic and unreasonable.

True conservatives are getting squeezed in the Republican party. I don't think someone like George W Bush would stand a chance now days.

I think someone like Ronald Reagan would be labeled as a RINO and be targeted by the "Tea Party" and the alt-Right.
 
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