Atheism is amoral

DogmaHunter

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Well Mark
We are indeed very different. I am so glad i am no longer like you.
I do not go around in a joyful trance like a deluded idiot.

And the condescension, arrogance and insulting just continues...........

Jesus Christ is very real, the Bible is the truth. It is a wonderful incredible thing to finally know this. We do not need to struggle alone. No human being can give you what Jesus can and will, if you ask with a humble heart.
Considering the last couple posts from you that I read, a "humble" heart is not something you seem to have.

That is why i have been able to face and deal with my husband's terrible death from throat cancer. I have felt all the grief but i have come through calmly and am now thriving. God has been with me every second and always will be. None of can cope on our own. We need God.

My mother, as an atheist, dealt with the death of her mom just fine.
Atheists all over the world, deal with the death of loved ones just fine. Not better or worse then any non-theists.

Get of your high horse.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Lol!
Well i don't really know what you are doing here. But never mind. You atheists who are reading these posts can never turn around and say you were not warned.

And you won't be able to say that you weren't warned of the "punishment" in case you refuse becoming a muslim or whatever.

The problem is that these "warnings" are without content and without bite.
It's like trying to scare me into being good "or santa won't bring you presents". Yes, you could "warn" me about that too. I won't be losing any sleep over that "warning" either.

But when the moment comes that you need the Lord, and it will, just be sure of one thing. Jesus Christ loves you whether you deserve it or not.

Great.
Now, when you're done preaching....
Perhaps you could return to topic.
 
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bhsmte

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Hi Mark

You are missing out on peace and joy untold. You just do not understand. This life is full of storms and pain. But we true christians can smile and feel secure no matter what. Why? Because we know that the greatest power of all, God, will always get us through.
This is why i was able to sit peacefully beside my husband at the hospice as he died. Then deal with appalling behaviour from members of our families and not fall apart. I dealt alone eith funeral arrangements because my own daughter walked away. I still have no contact three years later.
Jesus Christ has protected and guided me. I never felt scared on my own at home at night. I cried, felt all the grief. But never lost control. Never needed tablets or alcohol. I prayed for strength and it has always come.
I've done nothing but prosper. I have a new partner now and we are so happy. All through the power of Christ.
You may look cynically at all this. But just compare my experience with those who have no belief in God. Such people are lost. Family and friends can and do let you down. It's human weakness. We all let each other down. I am not perfect or saintly. I depend humbly on God who is perfect love. Christ is the light in this dark world.
But keep in mind that if your life is not guided by Christ, it certainly is guided by his opposite. The Devil is also just as real. He is the alternative. He has a free reign fir now because we have free will. We choose him or Jesus. Do have a think about who and what really drives you. At the moment of your death it will matter a great deal as eternity beckons. There is no neutral ground.

What you cant comprehend, is people can disagree with you and live a very fulfilling life. The fact you cant comprehend this, tells us a lot about you.
 
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Eudaimonist

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You are missing out on peace and joy untold.

I'm fine with that. I prefer integrity and reality.

This life is full of storms and pain. But we true christians can smile and feel secure no matter what.

I am capable of smiling and having a reasonable degree of security. I don't claim a perfect degree of security, but that's okay. I'll be fine. :)

This is why i was able to sit peacefully beside my husband at the hospice as he died.

I dealt with the death of my mother. I was shocked when it happened, but I faced it with honesty and I had survived just fine!

I've done nothing but prosper.

That's great. I'm prospering too.

I have a new partner now and we are so happy. All through the power of Christ.
You may look cynically at all this.

Cynically? No. I'm just not convinced that you understand things properly. I am happy that you are happy. Are you happy for me?

But just compare my experience with those who have no belief in God. Such people are lost.

LOL! Are prospering people lost? Why were you going on about personal prospering? Is it a good thing, or is it inconsequential? If it is inconsequential, why did you mention it?

Family and friends can and do let you down. It's human weakness.

Yes, so?

But keep in mind that if your life is not guided by Christ, it certainly is guided by his opposite.

Not certainly. That's just your party line. It's a great way of just writing other people off. If I'm not a Christian, then clearly I'm guided by evil. You can then just dismiss anything I say.

Do have a think about who and what really drives you.

Oh, I've had plenty of time to think about that. What if my drives are not what you personally think? What if they are actually positive?

At the moment of your death it will matter a great deal as eternity beckons. There is no neutral ground.

I'll be sure to choose Odin and die with a sword in my hand. Can you afford to do differently? Don't die without going to Valhalla.

We've gone through this already. Do you understand that your worldview has no more credibility to me than Scandinavian mythology? Your warnings are absolutely meaningless to me, just as warning you about missing out on Valhalla is absolutely meaningless to you.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Par5

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Hi Mark

You are missing out on peace and joy untold. You just do not understand. This life is full of storms and pain. But we true christians can smile and feel secure no matter what. Why? Because we know that the greatest power of all, God, will always get us through.
This is why i was able to sit peacefully beside my husband at the hospice as he died. Then deal with appalling behaviour from members of our families and not fall apart. I dealt alone eith funeral arrangements because my own daughter walked away. I still have no contact three years later.
Jesus Christ has protected and guided me. I never felt scared on my own at home at night. I cried, felt all the grief. But never lost control. Never needed tablets or alcohol. I prayed for strength and it has always come.
I've done nothing but prosper. I have a new partner now and we are so happy. All through the power of Christ.
You may look cynically at all this. But just compare my experience with those who have no belief in God. Such people are lost. Family and friends can and do let you down. It's human weakness. We all let each other down. I am not perfect or saintly. I depend humbly on God who is perfect love. Christ is the light in this dark world.
But keep in mind that if your life is not guided by Christ, it certainly is guided by his opposite. The Devil is also just as real. He is the alternative. He has a free reign fir now because we have free will. We choose him or Jesus. Do have a think about who and what really drives you. At the moment of your death it will matter a great deal as eternity beckons. There is no neutral ground.
I am sure that losing your husband to cancer was a very difficult time for you, compounded by a lack of support from your family, but for goodness sake don't imagine that no one else has felt the pain of losing a loved one and don't imagine everyone's family behaves as appallingly as you said yours behaved.
Non-believers suffer the loss of loved ones too and all the other problems that life throws at us all from time to time, but they still manage to get through those difficult times without going into meltdown, and I find it rather arrogant and indeed a downright lie for you to say that such people are lost and are being led by the devil. They are not lost and your bogeyman, the devil, plays no part in their reality.
You talk about having this great joy in your life, but the contents of your posts seem to suggest someone who has low self-esteem and an equally low opinion of others.
DogmaHunter has already advised you to get off your high horse. Sound advice, because you are sitting astride an old nag that is about to collapse, fit only to be carted off to the knackers yard!
 
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Grace2022

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Interesting. Why are you so full of negativity?
We christians operate from a basis of love.
You can say what you like it will never alter my faith in Jesus Christ. He loves every one of us and wants us to belong to Him. Isn't that simply the most brilliant wonderful thing you ever heard? He commands us to love God and each other.
Who in their right mind could possibly disagree with that?
 
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Freodin

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Interesting. Why are you so full of negativity?
We christians operate from a basis of love.
You can say what you like it will never alter my faith in Jesus Christ. He loves every one of us and wants us to belong to Him. Isn't that simply the most brilliant wonderful thing you ever heard? He commands us to love God and each other.
Who in their right mind could possibly disagree with that?
No one here is trying to alter your faith. If it makes you happy, more power to you.

The problem that we - most of the atheists here seem to agree - have with your stance is the, well, "negativity" you show towards us. Contempt, not love.

Let's see. We are "lost", cannot have the peace and happiness you have... "have been warned" [about something really really bad that is going to happen to us because we don't believe]... and you think it unbelievable and funny that an unbeliever might have similar life experiences as you do.

You keep talking about "love"... but in order to love someone, you have to take them serious. Not talk about them as cliches that your religion proscribes, and not as unsaved proto-humans that might be elevated to "human" status as soon as they start to agree with your religion.

This is what you need to realize: the difference between us is in the things we believe and don't believe in. For the rest, we are humans just like you. We are happy, we are sad, we trust, we doubt, we laugh, we cry, we hope and we despair.

As long as you cannot see that, and have to reduce everything about other humans to "Isn't Jesus the best thing you ever heard?", you will never understand us... and thus will never be able to show "love" towards us.
 
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Grace2022

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Wow very clever answers! Impressive answers to every point. Concise logical reasoning. Cold and rational. I am not clever like you. I have no idea what to say next. You have your opinions and i have mine.
There appears to be no point in further discussion. If you feel you have won then feel free to celebrate. It does not matter to me. I must walk away from this now as i have nothing more to add. You are apparently a very happy fulfilled strong person who certainly does not need God as you are so complete in yourself. I expect you can handle just about anything.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Wow very clever answers! Impressive answers to every point. Concise logical reasoning. Cold and rational. I am not clever like you. I have no idea what to say next. You have your opinions and i have mine.
There appears to be no point in further discussion. If you feel you have won then feel free to celebrate. It does not matter to me. I must walk away from this now as i have nothing more to add. You are apparently a very happy fulfilled strong person who certainly does not need God as you are so complete in yourself. I expect you can handle just about anything.

It's not so much about "winning" as it is about making sense.
 
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Freodin

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Wow very clever answers! Impressive answers to every point. Concise logical reasoning. Cold and rational. I am not clever like you. I have no idea what to say next. You have your opinions and i have mine.
There appears to be no point in further discussion. If you feel you have won then feel free to celebrate. It does not matter to me. I must walk away from this now as i have nothing more to add. You are apparently a very happy fulfilled strong person who certainly does not need God as you are so complete in yourself. I expect you can handle just about anything.
Won? No, it seems we have lost.

You don't listen. You don't want to listen... and we cannot reach you. It seems that, as your christian vocabulary has it, "your heart is hardened".
People here, me included, have told you how they deal with pain as well as happiness. If you think that this is "cold and rational", then it is clear that you don't listen to a word we say. You cannot see us as the people we are... you see us as the "lost souls, hardened hearts, unrepentent sinners, children of the devil" that your religion tell you we must be.

It is kind of insulting... but we can deal with being insulted. But being told that we are "loved" and then been treated so... that hurts.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Wow very clever answers! Impressive answers to every point. Concise logical reasoning.

Honest answers. Are you here for discussion, or just to be heard?

Cold and rational.

Cold? No. I have replied to you with a warm heart. You seem eager to see everyone as your enemy, and yourself as the helpless martyr. We aren't martyring you. We're actually interested in discussion. You, apparently, are not.

I am not clever like you.

Maybe you are. Perhaps you should try and actually communicate with us, instead of simply rehearsing some sort of script.

You have your opinions and i have mine.

We've already established that. No one disagrees with that.

There appears to be no point in further discussion.

Of course there is. You haven't discussed anything yet. You have simply talked at us. There has been no genuine discussion.

If you feel you have won then feel free to celebrate.

No, I've lost. I've wanted discussion. You have hardly addressed anything specific that I've said.

I must walk away from this now as i have nothing more to add.

That is sad. I am sure that you have more to add.

You are apparently a very happy fulfilled strong person who certainly does not need God as you are so complete in yourself. I expect you can handle just about anything.

And how precisely have you been presenting yourself?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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bhsmte

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Interesting. Why are you so full of negativity?
We christians operate from a basis of love.
You can say what you like it will never alter my faith in Jesus Christ. He loves every one of us and wants us to belong to Him. Isn't that simply the most brilliant wonderful thing you ever heard? He commands us to love God and each other.
Who in their right mind could possibly disagree with that?

2/3 of the worlds population would disagree with it. Do you judge them all the same way, just because they disagree with you?

It appears, being able to believe what you wish in your personal life, is not good enough for you, but you are completely miffed, people actually disagree with your personal beliefs.

I would learn to respect other people's disagreement and relieve this heavy burden you must have.
 
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bhsmte

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I have no such burdens. Mine i hand to lord Jesus. I hope one day you will hear and see clearly. The love of Christ is free for all who want it.
Have a good day and peace be upon you.

Your posts would indicate otherwise.
 
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Grace2022

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You can assume whatever you like.
I answer only to Jesus Christ. He alone is Lord of my life, my everything. To whom i owe every breath and all that i have. I am accountable to Him not to any human being.

So who or what is Lord of your life? Think carefully. Because whoever and whatever you value most is where your heart is and your destiny rests.
 
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Freodin

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You can assume whatever you like.
I answer only to Jesus Christ. He alone is Lord of my life, my everything. To whom i owe every breath and all that i have. I am accountable to Him not to any human being.

So who or what is Lord of your life? Think carefully. Because whoever and whatever you value most is where your heart is and your destiny rests.
Maybe you shouldn't think of it in terms of "answer to" or "accountability". Or, well, maybe you should.

The main question here is how you deal with other humans, how you treat other humans. This doesn't mean that you are "accountable" to them... but whether you show them kindness, respect... love.

For those of us who don't believe in deities, this is often enough... regardless what your faith tells you about us.

But you... you think you are accountable to an all powerful judge. A God who commands you to love others.
When you face his judgement, and he asks you whether you showed love towards other humans, or whether you disregarded and laughed about them... what will you tell him? "It wasn't my burden. I handed it to you."
Really?
 
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Grace2022

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Nobody is laughing at you. I certainly do not treat anyone with disrespect. God wants us to love one another. Yes it is a command, the greatest and best of all.
You look at things in a most peculiar light may i say! Christians are all about loving their fellow man and God. Thanking God for sacrificing his only son for us. Despite the fact we are all sinful wretches who deserve nothing at all! Certainly i am a wretch.
 
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FireDragon76

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Atheism is amoral because it's a worldview that everything including life came from nothing, by chance, and that it will all ultimately end in nothing.

That isn't a good argument for atheism being immoral.

So it's nothingness at the beggining and end, and in between is chance. That's the highest principle that sets up atheistic existence.

It seems to me that's only one way to look at it.

It's obvious that there's no place for true morality within atheism.

I'm not so sure sometimes there's a place for true morality among some Christians I have met, either.

But there is place for hedonism. What seems like morality withinin atheism is just a form of hedonism.

This is just an old rehash of the canard that atheists are dangerous because they are subversives and threaten order.
 
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bhsmte

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Nobody is laughing at you. I certainly do not treat anyone with disrespect. God wants us to love one another. Yes it is a command, the greatest and best of all.
You look at things in a most peculiar light may i say! Christians are all about loving their fellow man and God. Thanking God for sacrificing his only son for us. Despite the fact we are all sinful wretches who deserve nothing at all! Certainly i am a wretch.

And you can believe that. Many disagree with you and i would learn to respect and deal with that reality, without preaching and claiming those who disagree with you, are missing something.
 
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