Anyone that thinks they are “good enough” for Heaven is damned

[longwait]

Thank you for posting this.

I am glad the verses helped you.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Many in this college class had been church goers all their lives. They were just as troubled to hear this as the so called “heathen”...not a good reflection on churches...so much bad teaching out there

Yes, very sad. Jesus warned that MANY will say to Him, "Lord, Lord" and He will tell them to depart from Him. If people only read for themselves and stopped trying to justify themselves by changing their interpretations of Scripture to suit their mistaken beliefs, we would at least see a people caring for each other, like in the beginning of the church. Sadly, the visible church has largely become just a social club--just gathering membership and that is as deep as it goes. That isn't what God intended.

And, if people were troubled to hear it, then it was a good wake-up call for people that probably weren't going where they thought they were.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

We don't really makes accurate assessments of other people though we think we can.

I understand that we look at things differently. You have made that clear in other posts.

But, part of how I look at it is this: The New Testament is full of examples of people that I would consider "on fire" for God. They made assessments and were fueled by those assessments to reach the people they made assessments about with the Truth of God, before it was too late for them. In some cases, they actually made assessments that led to them cursing people.

You are certainly correct, I could be wrong. And so could you. We see through a glass dimly; but, so did they. I care and because I care, I act on my assessments and my understanding. Because I don't want to hurt anyone because of my mistakes or handed-down misinterpretations, I am always re-examining my beliefs to ensure they are in alignment with the Scriptures I believe.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Many in this college class had been church goers all their lives. They were just as troubled to hear this as the so called “heathen”...not a good reflection on churches...so much bad teaching out there

If they / anyone/ doesn't hear the truth in church, where are they going to hear it?

 

[SkyWriting]

The New Testament is full of examples of people that I would consider "on fire" for God. They made assessments and were fueled by those assessments to reach the people they made assessments about with the Truth of God, before it was too late for them.

Which people is that?

 

[SkyWriting]

In some cases, they actually made assessments that led to them cursing people.

Right. That violates the Royal law.
Moses killed some people as well because
he thought it was the right thing to do.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In some cases, they actually made assessments that led to them cursing people.

Actually, they did not make assessments in nor of themselves.
Yes, they did curse people(or spoke out against them if not cursed),
they cursed those people (or spoke out against them if not cursed)
WHEN YAHWEH DIRECTED THEM TO.
That's a big, big difference - to be directed by Yahweh, as Yeshua(Jesus) was,
so also He Trained His disciples to be.
To not have their own (nor our own) judgments, but to JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY, YAHWEH'S JUDGMENT.
To know Yahweh's Judgment is unique (rare) in this world we live in just as it was when Jesus trained the Apostles and disciples. Most people never know it nor realize it (God's Judgment) until it is too late for them. All their lives they reject God and His Judgment. Then when they are before His Throne , it is too late.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

If they / anyone/ doesn't hear the truth in church, where are they going to hear it?

Before there was a building, Christians went out. They didn't just bring everyone in to be "converted". A wrong decision, then, led to imprisonment and death in that powerful church. Today, it just leads to tares running/controlling the largely powerless church of today.

 

[SkyWriting]

I understand that we look at things differently. You have made that clear in other posts.

I feel honored that you learned "people are different" from me. I always hoped
I would reach at least one person with my message.

 

[SkyWriting]

If they / anyone/ doesn't hear the truth in church, where are they going to hear it?

The Old Testament was written about and by such people.

Also:
Rom1: 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Ladies too, if you accept some non-literal analysis.

 

[SkyWriting]

Actually, they did not make assessments in nor of themselves.
Yes, they did curse people(or spoke out against them if not cursed),
they cursed those people (or spoke out against them if not cursed)
WHEN YAHWEH DIRECTED THEM TO.
That's a big, big difference - to be directed by Yahweh, as Yeshua(Jesus) was,
so also He Trained His disciples to be.
To not have their own (nor our own) judgments, but to JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY, YAHWEH'S JUDGMENT.
To know Yahweh's Judgment is unique (rare) in this world we live in just as it was when Jesus trained the Apostles and disciples. Most people never know it nor realize it (God's Judgment) until it is too late for them. All their lives they reject God and His Judgment. Then when they are before His Throne , it is too late.

Jesus went to Hell and left. Would His Not-followers have that option?

 

[RaymondG]

Just curious....how did you arrive at that conclusion? I thought the teacher was spot-on

Jesus said that I am the light of the world.......you say not to even think that I am good enough for heaven.

The Lord said let the weak say I am strong.....You imply that if I am weak, I should not even think that i am strong....you say I should only think about my weak state.

Paul said whatsoever things are just, are of good report, are righteous....think on those things......you say that I should remove the best thought I could ever have from my mind.

The question is, should I believe the bible or man?

Thinking of failure may help some....but there are also a lot of people who arent willing to try to make something they believe they arent good enough for.

How many try out for a team when they are told they arent good enough to make it? How many go for that Job interview when they are told they arent qualified for it? How many go up and sing that song, when they are told they arent a good enough singer.

I see no fault in other preaching the message that you arent good enough for heaven.

My message however, will be: Jesus Loves you, and He believe you are good enough for heaven and wants you there with Him......if fact....he left the people in HEaven just to come down and get YOU.....This is how much He wants you there! Let Him show you the way back to where you belong.

 

[ToBeLoved]

We aren’t and will never be good enough.

Justification is Jesus declaring us righteous and giving us His righteousness.

We are only good enough because He is in our place and He is good enough

 

[RaymondG]

We aren’t and will never be good enough

We are only good enough because...

It would be more helpful to choose one of these statements, instead of implying that they both can be true.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It would be more helpful to choose one of these statements, instead of implying that they both can be true.

I don't see an issue.

we aren't good enough. Christ is. He is our Savior, Advocate and Lord.

Show me the verses that make either or both untrue

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

If they / anyone/ doesn't hear the truth in church, where are they going to hear it?

Internet and tv are full of great places......Jesus without religion......getgodsgift.org.....expreacherman.com...les feldick.org.....you tube ReneeRoland.....they all beat the legalistic ,dead churches I have seen . Check them out!

 

[RaymondG]

I don't see an issue.

we aren't good enough. Christ is. He is our Savior, Advocate and Lord.

Show me the verses that make either or both untrue

I see no problem with it. We can never be good enough, and we are good enough.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Jesus said that I am the light of the world.......you say not to even think that I am good enough for heaven.

The Lord said let the weak say I am strong.....You imply that if I am weak, I should not even think that i am strong....you say I should only think about my weak state.

Paul said whatsoever things are just, are of good report, are righteous....think on those things......you say that I should remove the best thought I could ever have from my mind.

The question is, should I believe the bible or man?

Thinking of failure may help some....but there are also a lot of people who arent willing to try to make something they believe they arent good enough for.

How many try out for a team when they are told they arent good enough to make it? How many go for that Job interview when they are told they arent qualified for it? How many go up and sing that song, when they are told they arent a good enough singer.

I see no fault in other preaching the message that you arent good enough for heaven.

My message however, will be: Jesus Loves you, and He believe you are good enough for heaven and wants you there with Him......if fact....he left the people in HEaven just to come down and get YOU.....This is how much He wants you there! Let Him show you the way back to where you belong.

Ray....thanks for your input....I don’t think we disagree that much....I think we just kinda see some things different.i would be interested for you to expand your thinking on your last sentence....what is The Way Back you referred to? God bless

 

[RaymondG]

Ray....thanks for your input....I don’t think we disagree that much....I think we just kinda see some things different.i would be interested for you to expand your thinking on your last sentence....what is The Way Back you referred to? God bless

I agree, we dont disagree. I aim to follow peace with all man.....holiness without no man shall see the Lord.

For expansion let me ask:
"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."

This is easy we say...we didnt exist....except God says:
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;"

Doesnt matter, in the end, when im dead and gone, all will be revealed in heaven....except Jesus says:
"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

I believe but this cant be serious...I'll ask the father when I get to heaven.....but:
"....no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

I can continue to try and understand this myself but the word says:
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

One day we will hear this:
"And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."

.....
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Some great quotes in there....that one about the purpose of speaking in parables is a real eye-opener .so much for the always “sweet and lovable” myth of Jesus.perhaps God doesn’t want everybody? Food for thought