Would it be wrong to force a rule onto someone else?

[ArmyMatt]

I never really understood the transition from Old Testament Law to the New Covenant.

the transition is all about the Messiah. those rules and laws were there to keep God's people together and to keep them from becoming as pagan as the nations that surrounded them.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

the transition is all about the Messiah. those rules and laws were there to keep God's people together and to keep them from becoming as pagan as the nations that surrounded them.

So the rules are outdated in that their purpose has been accomplished? It seems as though 100% of atheists think Christians are being inconsistent when not obeying those laws, probably a consequence of reading individual Bible verses on the Internet.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So the rules are outdated in that their purpose has been accomplished? It seems as though 100% of atheists think Christians are being inconsistent when not obeying those laws, probably a consequence of reading individual Bible verses on the Internet.

legal and cultural, yes. theological, no. if we love Christ, we keep His commandments.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

legal and cultural, yes. theological, no. if we love Christ, we keep His commandments.

Is it because the 10 commandments are reiterated in the 2 highest of laws to love God and our neighbor? Or is it because those 10 commandments are special?

 

[Jackson Cooper]

It's probably a good idea to ask your priest about questions you might have. He can get at the questions behind the questions and explain so you will maybe be able to understand and figure out yourself.

But as a basic note - we look to Christ, Who is God revealed to us. What did He do with the woman caught in adultery? He did not stone her, but sent her on her way with an admonition to sin no more. That is the heart of God, that we be set free, saved, and no longer a slave to sin.

Is there anything in the New Testament that makes it ok to force someone to not commit murder?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is it because the 10 commandments are reiterated in the 2 highest of laws to love God and our neighbor? Or is it because those 10 commandments are special?

both

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is there anything in the New Testament that makes it ok to force someone to not commit murder?

yes, when Christ is approached by the rich young ruler

 

[Jackson Cooper]

yes, when Christ is approached by the rich young ruler

I've long known about Matthew 19, but I didn't know he was a ruler. What was a ruler of?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I've long known about Matthew 19, but I didn't know he was a ruler. What was a ruler of?

dunno, just that he was wealthy

 

[Jackson Cooper]

dunno, just that he was wealthy

I don't think that's a good example of someone ruling in the New Testament.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't think that's a good example of someone ruling in the New Testament.

meaning he might not have been a ruler per say, but a young man with worldly wealth and power.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

meaning he might not have been a ruler per say, but a young man with worldly wealth and power.

I suppose John the Baptist would've said something if it were wrong, since he baptized centurions of an evil pagan empire.
I am also bothered by the idea that we don't have an obligation to stop someone from committing murder or rape. I find nothing in the New Testament on that.
My conscience has proven to be wrong the majority of times though. Guess I need to just stop listening to it.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

As pointed out, my definitions may have been in error or lacking. I don't really like to talk about social or political systems since that is not my area of knowledge. I wouldn't want to try to convince you of any of the particulars.

What I do know is that God Himself forbids murder, so the making of a rule forbidding it is not anti-Christian or sinful. Simply ... thou shalt not murder is God's law, and we are always right to stand with Him.




Lord have mercy on you for whatever you have suffered.

Your definitions were fine. If libertarians tend to be opposed to criminalizing infanticide, why would anarchists be any different?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I suppose John the Baptist would've said something if it were wrong, since he baptized centurions of an evil pagan empire.
I am also bothered by the idea that we don't have an obligation to stop someone from committing murder or rape. I find nothing in the New Testament on that.
My conscience has proven to be wrong the majority of times though. Guess I need to just stop listening to it.

well, we do have that obligation to stop murder and rape. you cannot be for murder and rape and follow the commandments or the summary of the law or the golden rule.

and I am pretty sure John was baptizing the Temple guards and not the pagans.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Your definitions were fine. If libertarians tend to be opposed to criminalizing infanticide, why would anarchists be any different?

Unfortunately there's a lot of insight in that statement.

Often it comes down to people want to do what they want to do. That may not be the case for the group you ask about - maybe they just enjoy philosophizing about morality (philosophizing can be dangerous ... it's possible to reason out a thing to seem perfectly ok by flawed human reasoning - we can and should always look to the Divine for true wisdom instead).

But people want to do what they want to do. When it infringes on others, like wanting to kill an inconvenient baby - it is sin. But they want to do it so they find ways of arguing to make it seem ok in order to justify themselves.

The problem is, such justification only makes them comfortable for the now. It won't justify them before God, and further, failing to acknowledge sin means that they won't seek healing from it. So in the end it is much more damaging than seeing from God's point of view.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I suppose John the Baptist would've said something if it were wrong, since he baptized centurions of an evil pagan empire.
I am also bothered by the idea that we don't have an obligation to stop someone from committing murder or rape. I find nothing in the New Testament on that.
My conscience has proven to be wrong the majority of times though. Guess I need to just stop listening to it.

Obligation?

Well, if we cannot manage to prevent it, that doesn't necessarily mean we sin.

But we owe love to everyone. Loving the innocent and victims means protecting them. If we can prevent rape or murder or kidnapping - we should and in that sense we DO have an obligation.

Can we stand before God and tell Him that we could prevented His beloved daughter from being brutally raped and murdered, but we simply chose to let her suffer instead - and expect that to be ok with God? Would you think any loving parent would be happy to hear that?

No, if we can protect someone from harm, we should. We owe them that in love. There is no such thing as the "right" of another to cause harm. None of us has that right. Period.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

Obligation?

Well, if we cannot manage to prevent it, that doesn't necessarily mean we sin.

But we owe love to everyone. Loving the innocent and victims means protecting them. If we can prevent rape or murder or kidnapping - we should and in that sense we DO have an obligation.

Can we stand before God and tell Him that we could prevented His beloved daughter from being brutally raped and murdered, but we simply chose to let her suffer instead - and expect that to be ok with God? Would you think any loving parent would be happy to hear that?

No, if we can protect someone from harm, we should. We owe them that in love. There is no such thing as the "right" of another to cause harm. None of us has that right. Period.

What you said reminds me of the contradiction of those supporting a woman's freedom to murder her child. It is giving the woman freedom to take away all freedoms from someone else, so if you're doing so for the sake of preserving freedom, you're contradicting yourself.

 

[~Anastasia~]

What you said reminds me of the contradiction of those supporting a woman's freedom to murder her child. It is giving the woman freedom to take away all freedoms from someone else, so if you're doing so for the sake of preserving freedom, you're contradicting yourself.

Freedom is not the ultimate good though. At least not unless we define it absolutely correctly (freedom from sin). Freedom TO sin is not an ideal.

And a person does not have the right or freedom to kill another person - and that's what abortion actually comes down to. Killing someone - even our own child - even our own child not yet born - is not a right, choice, or freedom given by God.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

Not a single person on this thread feels conflicted. Only I.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Not a single person on this thread feels conflicted. Only I.

how so?