Trump is in violation of the canons of the Episcopal Church

[FireDragon76]

"Not living up to it very well" is a very Anglican understatement. I'm afraid the Lutheran in me wouldn't put it so nicely.

 

[SolomonVII]

I think that's the most ridiculous defense I've ever heard.

A wedding photographer is no Robert Maplethorpe or Andy Warhol. It's not a speech act, it's a public service.

The guy makes specialty cakes. That is why people seek out his services rather than getting them from somewhere else that just mixes ingredients.
Weddings are all works of art. They cost thousands, and it is is not for functional services. It is for the expertise of the decor.
That is what is being paid for. Otherwise Gramma could bake it just as well, and it would probably even taste better.

Likely you have eloped, so you do not know these things.
Oh, and every time I draw a happy face in the dust on my back window of the car, I am being more of an artist than Andy Warhol could ever be.
I respect that these specialty bakers are artists. It is something that I could not do.
That is what people pay for, their artistic skills.

 

[Blade]

Well Trump you me don't answer to man but to the Father of our lord Jesus Christ. And His word makes it VERY clear on BOTH of these things that have been talked about. God even said "for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

So.. it would seem only a GOD gets the last say view in all this

 

[ViaCrucis]

"The church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state. It must be the guide and the critic of the state, and never its tool. If the church does not recapture its prophetic zeal, it will become an irrelevant social club without moral or spiritual authority." - Martin Luther King, Jr., Strength to Love

The Church has an obligation to speak truth to power. St. Ambrose refused to even permit the emperor Theodosius to cross the sacred threshold of the church after the massacre he committed in Thessalonika.

Any act of ecclesiastical discipline against Trump would likely be nothing more than token; but even still a firm rebuff by the Church is necessitated by our Christian confession.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Albion]

Surely not any baptised Christian, but ony those bapised with a trinitarian baptism.

Well, yes. There are some churches that would not meet that standard, although The Episcopal Church recently caused a bit of a stir by floating the idea of communing unbaptised people. I'm not sure where that stands at the moment.

 

[FireDragon76]

Weddings are all works of art. They cost thousands, and it is is not for functional services. It is for the expertise of the decor.

Marriages cost whatever people are willing to pay for them.

Like I said elsewhere, though less seriously, the real magic of marriage is what two people make of it. It's a blank templat. on which two people make their lives together, in any way they see fit. Hopefully, for their sake, they love each other, but there are no divine promises attached to the institution in the manner that much of our culture assumes.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Well, yes. There are some churches that would not meet that standard, although The Episcopal Church recently caused a bit of a stir by floating the idea of communing unbaptised people. I'm not sure where that stands at the moment.

There is no change in the official positon of The Episcopal Church which states all Christians with a Trinitarian baptism may participate in the Eucharist. Some priests take liberty to deviate from this practice. My former priest, for example, gave the invitation as, "If you seek Christ, you are welcome at this table." My new Priest more strictly follows the church's position.

 

[Albion]

There is no change in the official positon of The Episcopal Church which states all Christians with a Trinitarian baptism may participate in the Eucharist.

I agree. But the idea of making a change has been openly discussed in the church.

Some priests take liberty to deviate from this practice. My former priest, for example, gave the invitation as, "If you seek Christ, you are welcome at this table." My new Priest more strictly follows the church's position.

 

[buzuxi02]

Im not sure how this all works in the episcopal congregation. To me its all bizarre. Trump identifies as a presbyterian, his wife openly declared she is a roman catholic when she visited the Vatican. They were married in an Episcopal Church near his resort and their youngest son was baptised there. Not sure how that works but I highly doubt Trump would care if they take some action against him. I can bet if they divorce the Son will be brought up and identify as a roman catholic as an adult.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yeah, it is strange, but Episcopalians tolerate it. In a big church you can just blend in and never join and you'll never be approached to join. I had that experience for years too, there was a period I was a closet Episcopalian, similar to what Trump is doing. I could never make myself commit because I didn't like the Church that well to actually join, it was a struggle.

I watched a Lutheran Hour show a year ago about the conversion of a Jewish man to being a Christian. He spent years in an Episcopal church as a guest, just listening to the sermons and liturgy. Finally, someone approached him because he was a regular and asked if he'ld lead a Bible study. He had to inform them he was in fact Jewish and not Christian.

That sums up my experience in the Episcopal Church as well, only I spent less time there. I did get to know the Dean and Canon, probably because I sought some spiritual advice and confession from them. But otherwise nobody approached me.

OTOH, at my Lutheran church, I met the pastor on the first day I visited the church and everybody greeted us warmly.

Episcopalians are good Christians in my experience but they don't like to "get up in your business".

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Tolerance is the one word I would associate with the Episcopal Church USA so why should it be a surprise that they would tolerate their political rival Trump? Is Trump even their political rival?

 

[FireDragon76]

Tolerance is the one word I would associate with the Episcopal Church USA so why should it be a surprise that they would tolerate their political rival Trump? Is Trump even their political rival?

Michael Curry, the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church, has criticized his administration's policies on numerous points.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Trump is in violation of the Canons of the Episcopal Church. He communes twice a year at an Episcopal Church in Palm Beach, Florida. By supporting an Amicus Curiae through the Justice Department in regards to the case before the Supreme Court, he is not upholding the Episcopal Church's baptismal covenant of seeking justice, and is subject to the discretionary discipline of the Episcopal Church. It is agaist the canons of the Episcopal Church to dicsriminate against gays in public services.

I welcome discussion on this subject. I personally think he should not be offered communion, because his behavior is not in conformity with the Christian faith as taught in the Episcopal Church or the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. What he is doing is an egregious sacrilege that cries out to heaven, to support discrimination in Jesus name.

The Episcopal Church should find other ways of providing pastoral support to him and his family, such as instruction and catechism in the Christian faith. The Body and Blood of Christ is for the faithful who desire "to live in love and charity with your neighbor".

while it may or may nor be "canon", it is against god's word to partake in sodomy. to speak against sin is kind of what a Christian does. gay pride banners aren't exactly hanging off the pearly gates. get real.

 

[Open Heart]

Trump is in violation of the Canons of the Episcopal Church. He communes twice a year at an Episcopal Church in Palm Beach, Florida. By supporting an Amicus Curiae through the Justice Department in regards to the case before the Supreme Court, he is not upholding the Episcopal Church's baptismal covenant of seeking justice, and is subject to the discretionary discipline of the Episcopal Church. It is agaist the canons of the Episcopal Church to dicsriminate against gays in public services.

I welcome discussion on this subject. I personally think he should not be offered communion, because his behavior is not in conformity with the Christian faith as taught in the Episcopal Church or the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. What he is doing is an egregious sacrilege that cries out to heaven, to support discrimination in Jesus name.

The Episcopal Church should find other ways of providing pastoral support to him and his family, such as instruction and catechism in the Christian faith. The Body and Blood of Christ is for the faithful who desire "to live in love and charity with your neighbor".

First, you'll have to tell me what Amicus Curiae you are referring to. There is so much stuff about Trump in the news I can't keep up with it. Most of the stuff he does I despise, but even a clock is right twice a day.

Second, I can't speak for others, but given that the Episcopal Church gives out communion to gays that are publicly involved in ongoing sexual relations, it has no credibility with me. It's not that I don't consider Episcopalians Christians, or that I don't consider Episcopalianism of use. I would rather someone go there than be without a church and have in fact referred folks there. But even during the worst of the Catholic scandal, the Catholic church still preached pedophilia was sin. If the Episcopal church denied Trump communion, I would simply tell him to find a different church.

But sheesh, Trump shouldn't be going up for communion in any Church. Even though I can't point to any mortal sin, his character is so seriously flawed... The man says he has no need for forgiveness. How can someone who says that receive communion?

 

[Vicomte13]

Yeah, it is strange, but Episcopalians tolerate it. In a big church you can just blend in and never join and you'll never be approached to join. I had that experience for years too, there was a period I was a closet Episcopalian, similar to what Trump is doing. I could never make myself commit because I didn't like the Church that well to actually join, it was a struggle.

I watched a Lutheran Hour show a year ago about the conversion of a Jewish man to being a Christian. He spent years in an Episcopal church as a guest, just listening to the sermons and liturgy. Finally, someone approached him because he was a regular and asked if he'ld lead a Bible study. He had to inform them he was in fact Jewish and not Christian.

That sums up my experience in the Episcopal Church as well, only I spent less time there. I did get to know the Dean and Canon, probably because I sought some spiritual advice and confession from them. But otherwise nobody approached me.

OTOH, at my Lutheran church, I met the pastor on the first day I visited the church and everybody greeted us warmly.

Episcopalians are good Christians in my experience but they don't like to "get up in your business".

What is true of the Episcopalians in what you write is of the Catholics doubly so. You can meet as few or as many people as you want, and do as much or as little as you want, for decades. People do get to know each other, by face, or with a word of greeting, but beyond that, only those who are really interested in "doing church" do that sort of thing. Everybody else flows in and flows out for Mass and gets on with life. Unless you go out of your way to make the effort, you'll probably never talk to the priest, other than maybe at the door on the way out when some shake hands (which is easily avoided). It's not really ABOUT organization and social things - it's a big barn where people come together to individually talk to God and eat him. The meal (the eucharist) is collective, and there are familiar rituals, but Catholics are mostly there within their own heads or their little family group. Of course, for some people, the Church is their ethnic social club and the place they get together, for bingo, raffles, religion, etc. There's a men's group at my church that started about a year ago. We meet on Saturday morning to talk about the Gospel for the next day, or clean gutters, depending on whether or not something needs to be done that day.

Episcopalians do dress up for each other to "go to meeting". Catholics really don't to go to Mass. A few grouse about that. Most say "He's here - that's good enough." Catholics are a lot closer to their peasant roots than Episcopalians are, I think. The variants in Catholic Churches usually depend on the dominant ethnicities in that particular parish.

 

[FireDragon76]

The most obvious difference between Episcopalians and Catholics I see, though, is that Episcopalians will stay till the end of the service and actually sing the recessional hymn. I've been to Catholic churches where people start leaving after communion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It is agaist the canons of the Episcopal Church to dicsriminate against gays in public services.

I welcome discussion on this subject.

I think you already have read what Yahweh says. Trump just goes along with what Yahweh says in Scripture, instead of the things he beleives are UNScriptural...
That's what every person ought to do - Trust Yahweh in everything, and obey Yahweh, not man.

 

[Radagast]

He is anti-Christ as far as I am concerned.

Love your neighbour, as long as he isn't Republican.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Love your neighbour, as long as he isn't Republican.

Amen.
When the LIGHT comes to the United States, the people who hate it, why ?
(or any country on earth actually, why do people hate the LIGHT, everywhere ? )
What is written in Scripture ?

 

[Radagast]

black rights are more important than the rights of racists. Why? Because we won the war ... Victors justice means that Americans have the right to beat down, torment, discriminate against, and deny opportunity to anti-black racists for the rest of our existence. It is, in fact, the right thing to do. And it's fun.

Do you believe that, or are you some kind of agent provocateur?