Are you afraid of going to Hell?

[Roseonathorn]

That may sound nice, but it's not what the Scriptures teach. According to the Scriptures a person is the person, not a spirit. We find in Scripture that God created the man from the dust of the earth. Thus the man is of the elements of the earth. Then God breathed into the man the Breath or spirit of life, and the man became a living soul. Thus a living soul consists of a body and the breath or spirit of God. We find also in Scripture that when a man dies, the breath or spirit returns to God and the man returns to the dust. There is nothing to live on after a man dies, so he can't have an after death experience. At least not until the resurrection. Also, people don't go to Heaven so whatever the claims are these people aren't in Heaven.

Are You seriously suggesting that the Devil is dressing out as Jesus and His demons is dressing out as a persons former relatives that a person knew from earth and that the Devil can have a positive atmosphere of light and warmth and joy that causes people to follow jesus with all their heart instead of coldness and fear. I have heard of people getting fooled but if You suggest that God has no contact or miracles or interference with his people today then I must tell You, maybe You have not seen it all yet. No I am not perfect, I have not seen everything either, but when miracles happen I rather thank God for them than say they did not happen.

 

[Butch5]

Are You seriously suggesting that the Devil is dressing out as Jesus and His demons is dressing out as a persons former relatives that a person knew from earth and that the Devil can have a positive atmosphere of light and warmth and joy that causes people to follow jesus with all their heart instead of coldness and fear. I have heard of people getting fooled but if You suggest that God has no contact or miracles or interference with his people today then I must tell You, maybe You have not seen it all yet. No I am not perfect, I have not seen everything either, but when miracles happen I rather thank God for them than say they did not happen.

Miracles can happen, however, so can false signs and wonders, as Jesus warned. You're telling me something that is opposed to Scripture, why should I believe that? The Scriptures tell us that the dead know nothing, that they are not conscious, that they cannot praise God, and that their thoughts have perished. According to what you're claiming the dead are just the opposite. Should I believe the Scriptures or what someone who claims to have been dead says?

 

[Roseonathorn]

Tell me, why should I believe someone who says they were dead and had this experience, especially, when what they claim runs counter to Scriptures?

- ok it is easy for You to say, You are not the one that have been dead, it is harder for the ones that know they have been dead and have gone through psychiatric therapy to try to find out if they are sane or insane because they had another opinion before they died. No matter if they are on or off medication memories are the same,

That is a dangerous thing to say actually, not to believe in a lot of other peoples experiences, but rather trust in a few persons translation of a book, what if someone rewrite the book in the future and gets it all wrong... like that old bible in one of the arabcountries they found, where someone wrote a false letter making Jesus a fraud...what if the next english bibletranslation says some are destined for salvation and it is no longer a choice,
Then one person says-
You either are born saved or not. You inherit a ticket to heaven.
Then comes someone and says but I have had this salvation experience, I was dead in my transgressions and then I met the Holy Spirit and now I believe in Jesus,
Then this first person says again - nonono the book say You came from the wrong people, you can not be saved.
Then the second person says, but I did die once and I went to heaven but I was not finished serving Him down here yet so I was sent back. Really, when I found my grandfather and grandmothers old bible there were many more books in it that are nowadays taken away from todays bible. Who has the right to say that theywere not scripture or biblical. How many more books are to be tken away in the future because they feel uncomfortable for certain groups to read?

 

[Roseonathorn]

Miracles can happen, however, so can false signs and wonders, as Jesus warned. You're telling me something that is opposed to Scripture, why should I believe that? The Scriptures tell us that the dead know nothing, that they are not conscious, that they cannot praise God, and that their thoughts have perished. According to what you're claiming the dead are just the opposite. Should I believe the Scriptures or what someone who claims to have been dead says?

Evidently we are not reading the same sort of bibles.

 

[Butch5]

Tell me, why should I believe someone who says they were dead and had this experience, especially, when what they claim runs counter to Scriptures?

- ok it is easy for You to say, You are not the one that have been dead, it is harder for the ones that know they have been dead and have gone through psychiatric therapy to try to find out if they are sane or insane because they had another opinion before they died. No matter if they are on or off medication memories are the same,

That is a dangerous thing to say actually, not to believe in a lot of other peoples experiences, but rather trust in a few persons translation of a book, what if someone rewrite the book in the future and gets it all wrong... like that old bible in one of the arabcountries they found, where someone wrote a false letter making Jesus a fraud...what if the next english bibletranslation says some are destined for salvation and it is no longer a choice,
Then one person says-
You either are born saved or not. You inherit a ticket to heaven.
Then comes someone and says but I have had this salvation experience, I was dead in my transgressions and then I met the Holy Spirit and now I believe in Jesus,
Then this first person says again - nonono the book say You came from the wrong people, you can not be saved.
Then the second person says, but I did die once and I went to heaven but I was not finished serving Him down here yet so I was sent back. Really, when I found my grandfather and grandmothers old bible there were many more books in it that are nowadays taken away from todays bible. Who has the right to say that theywere not scripture or biblical. How many more books are to be tken away in the future because they feel uncomfortable for certain groups to read?

Yes, I take what is written over the "supposed" experiences of other people. I can easily check the Greek or Hebrew texts to see if the English translation is accurate. I can't go and check some experience someone claimed to have had.

Also, as I said, these claims run counter to Scripture. The Scriptures say the dead know nothing. So, if these people really were dead, they wouldn't know anything. The Scriptures tell us that the thoughts of the dead perish. So if they were dead they wouldn't have any memory of it because their thoughts perish.

 

[brinny]

Are you afraid of going to Hell?

No.

 

[Roseonathorn]

Yes, I take what is written over the "supposed" experiences of other people. I can easily check the Greek or Hebrew texts to see if the English translation is accurate. I can't go and check some experience someone claimed to have had.

Also, as I said, these claims run counter to Scripture. The Scriptures say the dead know nothing. So, if these people really were dead, they wouldn't know anything. The Scriptures tell us that the thoughts of the dead perish. So if they were dead they wouldn't have any memory of it because their thoughts perish.

Sorry sir but I have never met someone quite like You, If You died death as a martyre and the Lord by His grace took You to heaven to speak some sence with You face to face and give You a hug, would You ask for a bible and say I do not think this is heaven and You are certainly not God and although this looks like described as Jesus in heaven it can not be because I can think, reason and I have a heavenly body and I can eaven understand the Lords thoughts. You might even go as far as saying You do not belong there, You should be resting in a cold grave under the earth where the worms and mold chew on Your flesh. - Then the Lord says I have called You by name You are mine, Your spirit and soul are with me and here You look like this, I will never leave You or forsake You, but your earthly body rests in that tomb until resurrection day...Happier now?

 

[Butch5]

Sorry sir but I have never met someone quite like You, If You died death as a martyre and the Lord by His grace took You to heaven to speak some sence with You face to face and give You a hug, would You ask for a bible and say I do not think this is heaven and You are certainly not God and although this looks like described as Jesus in heaven it can not be because I can think, reason and I have a heavenly body and I can eaven understand the Lords thoughts. You might even go as far as saying You do not belong there, You should be resting in a cold grave under the earth where the worms and mold chew on Your flesh. - Then the Lord says I have called You by name You are mine, Your spirit and soul are with me and here You look like this, I will never leave You or forsake You, but your earthly body rests in that tomb until resurrection day...Happier now?

Again, you have no way to verify anything people say. Just because someone said they died and talked with Jesus doesn't mean they died and talked with Jesus. You seem to be avoiding what is written in Scripture. It says the dead are dead.

 

[Almost there]

I agree with what you've said here. I would submit that that is why the Scriptures refer to death as sleep. Scriptures tell us that all will be resurrected. Thus the time between death and resurrection is akin to sleep.

I had a dream about 35 years ago. I was driving my car directly into a solid concrete embankment at 70 mph. When I hit it, it was like breaking through an opaque sheet into blinding light.

Yes, it is just a dream, but illustrates how I feel about this. The "white light", could have been at the end of the age, but from my perspective, it was instantaneous. The moment I died, I was there.

 

[Butch5]

I had a dream about 35 years ago. I was driving my car directly into a solid concrete embankment at 70 mph. When I hit it, it was like breaking through an opaque sheet into blinding light.

Yes, it is just a dream, but illustrates how I feel about this. The "white light", could have been at the end of the age, but from my perspective, it was instantaneous. The moment I died, I was there.

That's the logical conclusion.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Sorry been off the thread for awhile.

Are you guys talking about near death experiences?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I had a dream about 35 years ago. I was driving my car directly into a solid concrete embankment at 70 mph. When I hit it, it was like breaking through an opaque sheet into blinding light.

Yes, it is just a dream, but illustrates how I feel about this. The "white light", could have been at the end of the age, but from my perspective, it was instantaneous. The moment I died, I was there.

But does time exist outside of human or earthly life?

In theory, how do you know how much or little time passed or did not pass

 

[Almost there]

But does time exist outside of human or earthly life?

All we know is that it is a construct of our corner of creation. What's going on there is something we will find out when we get there.

In theory, how do you know how much or little time passed or did not pass

My point is that you don't. Whether it's five minutes or 3,000 years, the impression is that it was instantaneous.

 

[ToBeLoved]

All we know is that it is a construct of our corner of creation. What's going on there is something we will find out when we get there.

My point is that you don't. Whether it's five minutes or 3,000 years, the impression is that it was instantaneous.

I understand. I was just bringing up in the conversation that "time" as we understand it may not be in the afterlife and I think is not in the afterlife at all.

Just trying to add another layer to the conversation.

 

[Almost there]

I understand. I was just bringing up in the conversation that "time" as we understand it may not be in the afterlife and I think is not in the afterlife at all.

Just trying to add another layer to the conversation.

Hey, that is my take as well.

 

[Roseonathorn]

Again, you have no way to verify anything people say. Just because someone said they died and talked with Jesus doesn't mean they died and talked with Jesus. You seem to be avoiding what is written in Scripture. It says the dead are dead.

Try say the dead are dead to someone who has been dead and says they have met Jesus in heaven, they are just as stubborn as some other religious biblepounder. You can not make anyone believe anything else if they had such an experience so easily. They do not think they lie, besides there are bibleverses backing up that thinking too I understand. God bless You. John 10. 27-28 My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[Butch5]

Try say the dead are dead to someone who has been dead and says they have met Jesus in heaven, they are just as stubborn as some other religious biblepounder. You can not make anyone believe anything else if they had such an experience so easily. They do not think they lie, besides there are bibleverses backing up that thinking too I understand. God bless You. John 10. 27-28 My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Again, you have no way to verify this. Firstly, if one is dead how do they know they're dead? The Bible says, the dead know nothing. Secondly, at what point is on declared dead? Is it clinical? Thirdly, people dream. The mind is powerful thing. It's just a possible and probably likely that these people are having some sort of dream. After all the body is going through tremendous turmoil.

 

[DarkSoul999]

Anyone who so desires can go to heaven (John 1:12)

False. Only those who have the capacity for total blind belief can enter heaven.

Every mentally tormented person on this planet is basically damned already because the voices will keep telling them that they aren't really saved.

 

[marineimaging]

Every since I renewed my faith in God and Jesus, I can't stop thinking about it. I also can't stop thinking about everyone else either and about how they are likely going to hell. Am I alone in this?

The statement "...in God and Jesus" might be one issue you have. God Father, God Son, and God Holy Spirit are one. The God Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as one, made promises that your faith in Jesus Christ, and that HE died for your sins, and that HE was resurrected to prove that the grave could not hold HIM, and your public profession of faith, and that the Holy Spirit is here today to help you along the way all come together to the promise that God made each of us who believe. If you have renewed your faith, then remember this from Ephesians 4:30 "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Your salvation to be in heaven is guaranteed and cannot be taken away by anyone, including Satan. You cannot sin it away. Why? God knew you would be a sinner continually and if one little sin could take it away, of what value did Jesus die on the cross? So, don't grieve the Holy Spirit with your doubts. Put those fears and concerns aside and rejoice in your salvation and then, take those wonderful feelings with you to serve God by helping others come to Christ thorugh your behavior in public.

 

[marineimaging]

Hell obsessions. I do suffer from obsessions just not this one....yet. Maybe I should. Does God really want us to obsess over eternal torture? I don't think so. He wants us to wake up now and then, when we ignore Him. The Good Shepherd. The Father of the Prodigal Son. Fortunately my earthly father was like this anyway. I feel privileged to have received God's love through him.

If I understand correctly, like you I am grateful that our God in heaven was always there as Abba, Father when my own was not. I was not certain I could always rely on my earthly father to be there, but I knew my heavenly father was ALWAYS there to love me. And Jesus, who died on the cross for my eternal salvation, was always there as my Lord to lead and direct me. And that I could hear the quiet still voice of the Holy Spirit in times of trouble and need. Way too many times love and gifts, even from my own parents, came with strings attached. It made me hard hearted in some ways. But, the gift of eternal salvation from God, never a string. Just given out of Love.