- Feb 5, 2002
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What is the church's official position on the Inquisition?
Does the church still think it has authority to kill people?
Stabat, you are such a huge help as I try to navigate and understand the Catholic Church better. I wanted to send something your way, especially in light of your real, valid concerns about Pope Francis ('cause the other thread was locked).Except she never did, you're confusing the church with the state.
The church did declare people heretics, but the sword/ death sentence/ torture was carried out by the governments.
Stabat, you are such a huge help as I try to navigate and understand the Catholic Church better. I wanted to send something your way, especially in light of your real, valid concerns about Pope Francis ('cause the other thread was locked).
Mother of God
This link above gets you to an awesome forum, where Traditionalist Catholics and seekers can discuss, express fears and concerns, and call heresy heresy. And pray for one another, the Pope, and the Dubia Cardinals.
God bless you, man. You have been and are a great blessing, to me, and others.
Also, the only Scripture verse I've yet seen that might point to or allude to physical / life-ending punishment for sin would be1 Corinthians 5:1-5.
Before you participate with anyone calling anything heresy, and me too, we should read through the 4 Gospels, so that we can be sure we don't call a direct paraphrase of Christ Jesus a 'heresy'.....
Why? Because reading though homilies from Francis, I'm seeing direct paraphrase after direct paraphrase after direct paraphrase after direct paraphrase of Christ Jesus.
Read 5 or 10, and see for yourself:
Pope Francis - Homilies - Vatican Radio
Halbhh; I agree that heresy is a word not to be wielded lightly. But there are times when it is appropriate, and accurate. I won't get into that here. But having somewhere to talk about what is happening at the Vatican, in the Church, and in our hearts and minds as we go through increasingly difficult trials can be a huge blessing. I just wanted to point out a place on-line that might help Stabat, and others.
Ok, but my translation does say "destruction of the flesh". Not "emotional suffering".That excommunication, the only one in the NT I know of, was Paul wrote in hope that by suffering, that flagrant sinner would turn and be saved. In hope for his repentance. There was no execution.
Gospel of John, chapter 8 starts with how execution here on Earth is no longer done by believers, when when someone was guilty of an executable crime by the law.
Debatable. But again, not on-topic, so.... I think we can just agree that praying for Pope Francis right now is incredibly vital, and can not be done enough.Ok, and I don't know for certain you were thinking of something Francis said, and wanted to warn you that over and over Francis lines up perfectly with Christ Jesus our Lord.
That's the text, accurately, yes, meaning that without the protection of the Church, outside it, he would be subject to (normal mortal) suffering without any protection of fellow believers or fellowship, and thus feel, as an emotion and thought and experience, the bad effects of the life of sin, and thus, hopefully, turn and repent. Unrepented sin leads of course leads to death, spiritually, but it also leads to suffering even here in the mortal life, in time.Ok, but my translation does say "destruction of the flesh". Not "emotional suffering".
That's the text, accurately, yes, meaning that without the protection of the Church, outside it, he would be subject to (normal mortal) suffering without any protection of fellow believers or fellowship, and thus feel, as an emotion and thought and experience, the bad effects of the life of sin, and thus, hopefully, turn and repent. Unrepented sin leads of course leads to death, spiritually, but it also leads to suffering even here in the mortal life, in time.
While it is true that the State carried out the death penalty, it is also true that the Catholic Encyclopedia itself acknowledges that at least five popes and probably more, forced the civil authorities to put heretics to death, under threat of excommunication.Except she never did, you're confusing the church with the state.
The church did declare people heretics, but the sword/ death sentence/ torture was carried out by the governments.
I believe that Pope Francis is a Godly man.Ok, and I don't know for certain you were thinking of something Francis said, and wanted to warn you that over and over Francis lines up perfectly with Christ Jesus our Lord.
And my personal take on 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 is that it *seems* to be referring to a destruction of the flesh in this life, so that the soul may yet be saved on the Last Day. Which could at least include the possibility of executing heretics. Does anyone else have any info on this?While it is true that the State carried out the death penalty, it is also true that the Catholic Encyclopedia itself acknowledges that at least five popes and probably more, forced the civil authorities to put heretics to death, under threat of excommunication.
And my personal take on 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 is that it *seems* to be referring to a destruction of the flesh in this life, so that the soul may yet be saved on the Last Day. Which could at least include the possibility of executing heretics. Does anyone else have any info on this?
I agreeAlso, the only Scripture verse I've yet seen that might point to or allude to physical / life-ending punishment for sin would be1 Corinthians 5:1-5.
huh? where does it say that?Gospel of John, chapter 8 starts with how execution here on Earth is no longer done by believers, when when someone was guilty of an executable crime by the law.
thank youYou are right to wonder where is the man
But...a "mob" of scribes and Pharisees?
That's reading something into it.
How are they a "mob" when they come and ask Him and wait for His answer?
?
Read the passage and think again.
Once you realize it's not an impassioned mob, next notice what happens.
where does Jesus say this is the new rule?He changes the rule ...now His new rule is the person without sin is to cast the first stone.
Entirely new. That was #not# in the Law... until this moment.