Stealthing

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
I'm trying to defend your posting this topic in this forum in the first place, but you're arguing that you were wrong and should have posted it elsewhere.
The purpose of the OP was to garnish answers to my question about how to handle it.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The purpose of the OP was to garnish answers to my question about how to handle it.

It would be a mistake to presume that the cause and cure for this particular form of sexually exploiting women is actually any different from other forms of sexually exploiting women.

To be honest, I'm not sure why young men are in that place. They don't have the sensibilities I was raised with in regard to how women should be treated by men who are real men.

I mean, after all, there has been an entire generation of "gender sensitivity training" given in schools--the young men you're talking about is the generation that from the cradle have been given the third-wave feminist-prescribed education in "personhood" rather than "manhood."

All the old rules I was taught about chivalry and gentlemanly manners were deemed outmoded and inappropriate--"the only difference between males and females is the plumbing."

In fact, the generation you're complaining about has a higher percentage of men directly raised only by women than any other generation.

So it's rather up to women to answer "what went wrong?"
 
Upvote 0

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,110
19,005
43
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,473,140.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Asking "what went wrong?" suggests that things are worse for women now than they used to be. I think that's a flawed premise.

I don't think it's a form of rape, exactly, but I do think it could perhaps be defined as some sort of assault (just as other types of actions involving the body without consent are assault), and treated as such by the law.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Tetra
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Asking "what went wrong?" suggests that things are worse for women now than they used to be. I think that's a flawed premise.

I don't think it's a form of rape, exactly, but I do think it could perhaps be defined as some sort of assault (just as other types of actions involving the body without consent are assault), and treated as such by the law.

As an older man, I certainly don't have the same level of social support to cuff a young man (physically or otherwise) to tell him it's wrong to treat a woman that way. If you wanted men to behave better, the answer was not to demolish chivalry, but to demand that it be strengthened and enlarged.

"Treated as such by the law" is not the fundamental answer to interpersonal relationships. That's only going to lead to continual attempts like this one to invent ways of doing evil that aren't covered by the law.
 
Upvote 0

RedPonyDriver

Professional Pot Stirrer
Oct 18, 2014
3,524
2,427
USA
✟76,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Democrat
Pray that people stop having sex outside of marriage. Otherwise, if proof is available, report it. It would be up to the local district attorney, or a judge in a civil case.

We're lost in a jungle of wide-open sex, living x-rated lives. I've reported posts here CF which are amoral. Maybe you only find out after you click on a link provided in their the OP.

its never occurred to you to think this can also happen WITHIN marriage? Thank God I'm infertile and in a long term monogamous relationship. If some man did that to me, husband or not...well...anyway...it wouldn't be pretty.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Paidiske
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
So it's rather up to women to answer "what went wrong?"
It's complicated, but the two biggest factors are:
1. Lack of fathers in the home.
2. A generation that is narcissistic to the point that it overwhelms all other teaching.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There is a form of sexual exploitation that is becoming increasingly common, or at least more reported.

Stealthing is the practice of men fooling women into having consensual sex with contraception when in fact they have deliberately punctured pin holes into the condom, or they then remove the condom during the sex act. These men then brag about it online or to their friends.

Women feel deeply violated, they are exposed to possible pregnancy and STD's, and are wondering if this is a form of rape.

What do you think? Is this a form of rape since it involves lack of consent? Is it a crime? If not, should it be a crime? What can be done about it?

It is a crime in Ireland and the UK. It is time for the US and rest of the world to catch up too.

"The Criminal Prosecution Service in the UK, defines consent - which is the marker of whether sex is rape or consensual - under section 74 of the ‘Sexual Offences Act 2003’, as requiring the participants to be “in a position to make that choice freely” and moreover “the crucial question is whether the complainant agrees to the activity by choice”. "
Stealthing: What You Need To Know About This Illegal New Sex Practice | The Huffington Post

'Rape-Adjacent': Imagining Legal Responses to Nonconsensual Condom Removal
Columbia Journal of Gender and Law, Vol. 32, No. 2, 2017
'Rape-Adjacent': Imagining Legal Responses to Nonconsensual Condom Removal by Alexandra Brodsky :: SSRN

Stealthing: What You Need To Know About This Illegal New Sex Practice | The Huffington Post
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's complicated, but the two biggest factors are:
1. Lack of fathers in the home.
2. A generation that is narcissistic to the point that it overwhelms all other teaching.

But if women were the same as men except for the plumbing, how could lack of fathers matter?

The problem of disrespecting women isn't confined to the Millinnial generation (and the "narcissism" of Millennials is a misunderstood social phenomenon--what people call "narcissism" is actually social media communalism).

BTW, I know of a couple of cases where women claimed to be on birth control and weren't specifically to get pregnant when their boyfriends didn't want children. And I'm currently warning a nephew he'd better handle the birthcontrol himself, because his live-in girlfriend (who says "we'll always be together" but turns him down from actual marriage) looks to be following that same path.
 
Upvote 0

Phil 1:21

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2017
5,869
4,399
United States
✟144,842.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is a form of sexual exploitation that is becoming increasingly common, or at least more reported.

Stealthing is the practice of men fooling women into having consensual sex with contraception when in fact they have deliberately punctured pin holes into the condom, or they then remove the condom during the sex act. These men then brag about it online or to their friends.

Women feel deeply violated, they are exposed to possible pregnancy and STD's, and are wondering if this is a form of rape.

What do you think? Is this a form of rape since it involves lack of consent? Is it a crime? If not, should it be a crime? What can be done about it?

Just for the sake of discussion, the only people I've ever heard of poking holes in condoms were women wanting to get pregnant, sometimes to "trap" a guy with money. This type of deception during otherwise consensual sex, whether men removing condoms or women poking holes in them or lying about being on the pill, has been going on for decades.

Is it rape? Of course not. Is it abhorrent? Absolutely. How do we stop it? Well, try not fornicating.

Welcome to the consequences of sin.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
BTW, I know of a couple of cases where women claimed to be on birth control and weren't specifically to get pregnant when their boyfriends didn't want children. And I'm currently warning a nephew he'd better handle the birthcontrol himself, because his live-in girlfriend (who says "we'll always be together" but turns him down from actual marriage) looks to be following that same path.
Sin certainly isn't confined to a single gender.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
It is a crime in Ireland and the UK. It is time for the US and rest of the world to catch up too.
Glad to hear it's a crime for you all. I think that SOME district attorneys may try to prosecute under existing laws, but the juries could go either way. We do need to make our laws explicit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phil 1:21
Upvote 0

Basil the Great

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 9, 2009
4,766
4,085
✟721,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Green
There is a form of sexual exploitation that is becoming increasingly common, or at least more reported.

Stealthing is the practice of men fooling women into having consensual sex with contraception when in fact they have deliberately punctured pin holes into the condom, or they then remove the condom during the sex act. These men then brag about it online or to their friends.

Women feel deeply violated, they are exposed to possible pregnancy and STD's, and are wondering if this is a form of rape.

What do you think? Is this a form of rape since it involves lack of consent? Is it a crime? If not, should it be a crime? What can be done about it?
This is news to me. I must say, Open Heart, you post some of the most interesting and informative posts.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
This is news to me. I must say, Open Heart, you post some of the most interesting and informative posts.
I'm one of those people that I would literally die of boredom if I didn't keep my mind active. I have all sorts of filters on google news designed to get me interesting stuff, ethics, science, health, israel, religion, you name it. I even have a filter for chimpanzees. Did you know they've been seen using spears for hunting? But only the females!

Anyhow, as an INFJ, my personality functions around ethical thinking, so any time I run into some sort of new ethical problem it's a big deal for me. Stealthing was one such problem. I came across it AGAIN on a Law and Order re-run the other day. The perp was called a "reproductive abuser." He had fathered over 40 children by poking holes in condoms so that they would break when he used them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Basil the Great

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 9, 2009
4,766
4,085
✟721,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Green
I'm one of those people that I would literally die of boredom if I didn't keep my mind active. I have all sorts of filters on google news designed to get me interesting stuff, ethics, science, health, israel, religion, you name it. I even have a filter for chimpanzees. Did you know they've been seen using spears for hunting? But only the females!

Anyhow, as an INFJ, my personality functions around ethical thinking, so any time I run into some sort of new ethical problem it's a big deal for me. Stealthing was one such problem. I came across it AGAIN on a Law and Order re-run the other day. The perp was called a "reproductive abuser." He had fathered over 40 children by poking holes in condoms so that they would break when he used them.
No, your chimpanzee news is one that I have not heard of previously. By the way, you have given me an idea. I believe that it is time to update my Google alerts, so I can keep up with some of my favorite topics of interest. Thanks much....
 
Upvote 0