MYSTERY SOLVED

Oldmantook

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How do we know that the Tribulation is over in Rev 6????

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Based upon your view, the tribulation is over in Rev 6 because Jesus comes back after the tribulation as cited in Matt 24. So logically and sequentially we need to first determine when Jesus comes back, then we know when the tribulation is over correct? Matt 24:30 states that everyone will SEE Jesus coming back in the clouds. This does not take place in Rev 6 but in Rev 19 which is after the tribulation.
 
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Based upon your view, the tribulation is over in Rev 6 because Jesus comes back after the tribulation as cited in Matt 24. So logically and sequentially we need to first determine when Jesus comes back, then we know when the tribulation is over correct? Matt 24:30 states that everyone will SEE Jesus coming back in the clouds. This does not take place in Rev 6 but in Rev 19 which is after the tribulation.
Yes Rev 19 is after the Tribulation. Rev 19 is the end of the Wrath of God.

What do you make out of these verses? Is it a rapture or what?

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
 
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Oldmantook

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Yes Rev 19 is after the Tribulation. Rev 19 is the end of the Wrath of God.

What do you make out of these verses? Is it a rapture or what?

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Indeed, Rev 14:14 refers to the Son of man upon a cloud which would parallel Matt 24. Notice also that in Rev 14 which you cite in v.7 it points to the "hour" of God's judgment. If we could determine the timetable of the hour, then we would know know when Jesus comes on a cloud - before or after the tribulation. We also know that the scriptures inform us that Jesus comes as a thief at an hour we do not expect. Jesus also promised the faithful Philadelphian Church that because they persevered, he would keep them from the hour of trial that comes upon the earth. So when does this hour occur?
Rev 18:10 They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, “Alas! Alas! You great city, you mighty city, Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.”
Rev 18:17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off
Rev 18:19 And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, crying out, “Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! For in a single hour she has been laid waste.
Jesus comes as a thief at the hour of Babylon's destruction which takes place at Armageddon. This is consistent with Rev 16:15-16.
 
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seventysevens

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There, with your phrase "both groups" you have admitted Paul was speaking of 2 separate and distinct groups of saints in the 1 Thess.4 Scripture.
Even though those events Paul described will occur very rapidly, there is a specific order to them. So adjectives like "same time" can be misleading, especially when the order Apostle Paul and our Lord Jesus declared is left out.
The distinction between the two different groups of saints and their order of gathering is important.
As Paul described in Thess 4 , the dead in Christ and we which are ALIVE are caught up together WITH THEM in clouds to meet Jesus .

Simple comparative to help you understand this better ...
Say you are going to your Grandma's house for the holiday dinner and you pick up a friend who lives 2 doors down from you and he gets in your car and off you go to grandmas house .

Now there is you meeting with your friend and now it is no longer just you but you have joined with your friend going to the same destination Together

In the very same car Together and at the very same time Together ,

in each others company Together until you arrive at your grandmas house
Together at the SAME TIME
get it ??

That is how it will be when the dead in Christ and those who are alive are caught up Together to meet Jesus together at the same time :)

Consider you have 3 brothers and mom and dad , that makes 6 people in your family , just one group , now if two members of your family die you are still 1 family with 2 of them dead , you do not now say that you are 2 groups of people ,. you are still just 1 group with 2 of them dead , just because they are dead does not make them a separate group
I realize that you believe the post trib is correct , but seriously it doesn't make any sense when you really understand why the rapture happens , I will be explaining this in a very detailed manner soon

When you can find a scripture that says the rapture happens after the GREAT TRIB as clear and concise as God telling Noah - Build an ark for I am going to destroy the world with a flood with a continuous rain and in that ark you will be protected through the flood , then I can consider it , as before Noah's flood came there had not been any rains before as the vegetation got it's water from heavy mists and underground water which is one of the reasons that the earths people thought Noah was crazy off the deep end telling them a flood was coming that would destroy the earth
The reason we have rainbows when it rains is Gods remembrance of His promise that he will not destroy the earth again with a flood
 
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BABerean2

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When you can find a scripture that says the rapture happens after the GREAT TRIB as clear and concise as God telling Noah - Build an ark for I am going to destroy the world with a flood with a continuous rain and in that ark you will be protected through the flood , then I can consider it

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 

A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church.


Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 

Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 

Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 




1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 
1Th 5:1  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 
1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


1Th 5:10  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 


 
2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 


Rev 16:15  Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 
Rev 16:16  And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 
 
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Indeed, Rev 14:14 refers to the Son of man upon a cloud which would parallel Matt 24. Notice also that in Rev 14 which you cite in v.7 it points to the "hour" of God's judgment. If we could determine the timetable of the hour, then we would know know when Jesus comes on a cloud - before or after the tribulation. We also know that the scriptures inform us that Jesus comes as a thief at an hour we do not expect. Jesus also promised the faithful Philadelphian Church that because they persevered, he would keep them from the hour of trial that comes upon the earth. So when does this hour occur?
Rev 18:10 They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, “Alas! Alas! You great city, you mighty city, Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.”
Rev 18:17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off
Rev 18:19 And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, crying out, “Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! For in a single hour she has been laid waste.
Jesus comes as a thief at the hour of Babylon's destruction which takes place at Armageddon. This is consistent with Rev 16:15-16.
You left out one of the most important verses that tell us who this great city is.

Rev 18
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

The great city being discussed here is Vatican City.

Additionally, the harvest of Revelation 14 is the twelve tribes of Israel. They are not appointed to wrath either.
 
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seventysevens

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Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 

A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church.

.
Obviously you have no clue to what that scripture actually means , nothing to do with the rapture ,
it is possible to overcome satan now by the blood of the lamb and with the testimony of our own on how Christ who shed HIS innocent blood for us so that we may have eternal life in the presence of the Creator of earth , stars , heaven and everything as we have loved Christ and what he has done for us More than we love our own lives even if it means we would rather die than forsake the Christ who has saved us from our sins by shedding HIS blood for us
 
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Oldmantook

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You left out one of the most important verses that tell us who this great city is.

Rev 18
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

The great city being discussed here is Vatican City.

Additionally, the harvest of Revelation 14 is the twelve tribes of Israel. They are not appointed to wrath either.
Your reply did not account for my explanation of Jesus' specific reference to the hour of his return. Mystery Babylon is not only a city but a system - spread worldwide. That is why believers are commanded to come out from her. We are not appointed to God's wrath but that does not mean believers will not be persecuted under Satan's wrath. As I already pointed out, the Philadelphian church which Jesus commends for their perseverance is told that they will be kept from the hour of his testing. This hour come at the end of the tribulation.
 
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Your reply did not account for my explanation of Jesus' specific reference to the hour of his return. Mystery Babylon is not only a city but a system - spread worldwide. That is why believers are commanded to come out from her. We are not appointed to God's wrath but that does not mean believers will not be persecuted under Satan's wrath. As I already pointed out, the Philadelphian church which Jesus commends for their perseverance is told that they will be kept from the hour of his testing. This hour come at the end of the tribulation.
A really, really good point you are making. However, the Church will be long gone before the tribulation occurs.

Matt 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

We see that people were eating and drinking and marrying until the day that Noah entered the ark. They were not in the tribulation or experiencing the Wrath of God. We also know that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. And we know about the 70th week of Daniel that is yet to happen.
 
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Truth7t7

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So when is the LAST trumpet to be blown? Its a MYSTERY!

1COR.15 [50] Now thisin, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

MYSTERY—last trumpet {it shall sound} – The LAST one! – No more trumpets to be blown – Its the LAST trumpet!

REVELATION 8 [1] And when he had opened THE SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. [2] And I saw the SEVEN ANGELS which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS.

Seventh angel has a trumpet. It shall sound. Its also the LAST one to be heard. Its also AFTER the trib period

REVELATION 10 [6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: [7] But in the days of the voice of THE SEVENTH ANGEL, when he shall begin to sound, THE MYSTERY OF GOD SHOULD BE FINISHED, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

MYSTERY SOLVED! The seventh angel begins to sound. This is the LAST trumpet you find being blown in the bible

REVELATION 16 [17] And the SEVENTH ANGEL poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, IT IS DONE.

REVELATION 11 [14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. [15]And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

As i said before, we do not flit off to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event. As the seventh angel sounds the trumpet the kingdoms of this world are to become the kingdoms of the Lord and thats where the Lord will bring us after meeting Him in the air. His kingdom
Your 100% Correct, You Get The A+ on your paper in exposing the false teaching of the pre-trib rapture!

Took me 20+ years sitting in the pew shouting Amen to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 as the preacher was wiping his forehead reading from the Scofield Reference bible 1909

The verses that pulled me out were 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

"Let no man deceieve you by any means" the man of sin would be revealed.

Then 1 Corinthians 15:54 at the event of the so called rapture, I saw "Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory" as we know death continues after the false rapture.

I then studied to see where this invention started, Lacunza, Darby & Scofield are the foundations of the false teaching we know today.

Thank you Lord Jesus for showing me the truth, Amen!

I have talked with several pastors, showing them the truth regarding the false teaching on the pre-trib rapture, hard to believe but 50% agree its a false teaching not found in the bible, but salary, living expanses, pensions, and orgaziational structure have them silenced.

"Forsaking All" To Follow Jesus?
 
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Oldmantook

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A really, really good point you are making. However, the Church will be long gone before the tribulation occurs.

Matt 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

We see that people were eating and drinking and marrying until the day that Noah entered the ark. They were not in the tribulation or experiencing the Wrath of God. We also know that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. And we know about the 70th week of Daniel that is yet to happen.
The problem is notice that verse 39 refers to those who were taken. Noah and his family were not the ones taken. V.39 refers to the disobedient people who were taken away in the flood; i.e. killed. Noah and family remained behind and God protected them in the ark during the flood on earth. So shall the coming of the Son of man be, as God will protect the Church from the hour of trial that is coming upon the earth.
 
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BABerean2

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1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 



 Rev 10:7  But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. 


Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 


Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 


Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (See John 5:27-30)


2Ti 4:1  I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 


There is no 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation.



.
 
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The problem is notice that verse 39 refers to those who were taken. Noah and his family were not the ones taken. V.39 refers to the disobedient people who were taken away in the flood; i.e. killed. Noah and family remained behind and God protected them in the ark during the flood on earth. So shall the coming of the Son of man be, as God will protect the Church from the hour of trial that is coming upon the earth.
Yes the disobedient people were taken away in destruction as Noah and his family were safely above it all.

Which brings us to Lot, notice the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction occurs, which we can see at the end of Rev 14 after the harvest.
 
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Your 100% Correct, You Get The A+ on your paper in exposing the false teaching of the pre-trib rapture!

Took me 20+ years sitting in the pew shouting Amen to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 as the preacher was wiping his forehead reading from the Scofield Reference bible 1909

The verses that pulled me out were 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

"Let no man deceieve you by any means" the man of sin would be revealed.

Then 1 Corinthians 15:54 at the event of the so called rapture, I saw "Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory" as we know death continues after the false rapture.

I then studied to see where this invention started, Lacunza, Darby & Scofield are the foundations of the false teaching we know today.

Thank you Lord Jesus for showing me the truth, Amen!

I have talked with several pastors, showing them the truth regarding the false teaching on the pre-trib rapture, hard to believe but 50% agree its a false teaching not found in the bible, but salary, living expanses, pensions, and orgaziational structure have them silenced.

"Forsaking All" To Follow Jesus?

I'm going to have to give you a C- and only because this stuff can be pretty confusing and we have to grade on a curve.

The verse that pulled you out is 2 Thes 2:3. But if we read verse 2 Thes 2:2 we can see that the man of sin will be revealed before the day of Christ.
2 Thes 2
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

So the people were concerned that they were in the Day of the Lord but were told........no.....before that happens the man of sin will be revealed.

Secondly the verses of 1 Cor 15 are not talking about a pre tribulation rapture, they are talking about the main harvest which we can see at the end of Rev 14.

Thirdly you should read Matt 24 again. It has some interesting verses.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:


33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.


44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


So after telling you all the things that are going to happen.......wars, famine, pestilence etc. and then immediately after that tribulation He is coming.......YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HE IS COMING. And yet he says for in such an hour as you think not the son of man cometh.

He's telling you be ready because Noah goes into the Ark 7 days before the flood. The times of the Gentiles get fulfilled. Then comes the 70th week of Daniel.....7 days when God deals with Israel.

Fourthly if you really studied when the teaching of the pre trib rapture began, you would find there is plenty of documented evidence that proves that it was around long before Darby and Scofield etc. This can be easily proven if you do a little research.

You might want to rethink everything and be ready before the doors to the Ark are closed. (7 days before the flood for the Gentiles)
 
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BABerean2

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I'm going to have to give you a C- and only because this stuff can be pretty confusing and we have to grade on a curve.

The verse that pulled you out is 2 Thes 2:3. But if we read verse 2 Thes 2:2 we can see that the man of sin will be revealed before the day of Christ.
2 Thes 2
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

So the people were concerned that they were in the Day of the Lord but were told........no.....before that happens the man of sin will be revealed.

Secondly the verses of 1 Cor 15 are not talking about a pre tribulation rapture, they are talking about the main harvest which we can see at the end of Rev 14.

Thirdly you should read Matt 24 again. It has some interesting verses.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:


33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.


44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


So after telling you all the things that are going to happen.......wars, famine, pestilence etc. and then immediately after that tribulation He is coming.......YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HE IS COMING. And yet he says for in such an hour as you think not the son of man cometh.

He's telling you be ready because Noah goes into the Ark 7 days before the flood. The times of the Gentiles get fulfilled. Then comes the 70th week of Daniel.....7 days when God deals with Israel.

Fourthly if you really studied when the teaching of the pre trib rapture began, you would find there is plenty of documented evidence that proves that it was around long before Darby and Scofield etc. This can be easily proven if you do a little research.

You might want to rethink everything and be ready before the doors to the Ark are closed. (7 days before the flood for the Gentiles)
Based one Lukes 21:24-28 the times of the Gentiles ends at the Second Coming of Christ. Based one Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18, the 70 th week was completed during the first century.

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Choose Wisely

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Based one Lukes 21:24-28 the times of the Gentiles ends at the Second Coming of Christ. Based one Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18, the 70 th week was completed during the first century.

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Yes you are correct about the times of Gentiles. I should not have used that term. Should have just said the ark doors are closed and God will begin dealing with Israel. He has 144000 first fruits for the coming harvest.

As for the 70th week of Daniel and the verses you provided..........not a chance.
 
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Davy

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As Paul described in Thess 4 , the dead in Christ and we which are ALIVE are caught up together WITH THEM in clouds to meet Jesus .

Right from the start you have misunderstood the 1 Thess.4 Scripture.

1 Thess 4:13-14
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

KJV

Those of us still alive on earth are not caught up first. Jesus first brings the asleep saints that had died with Him. Like Paul said, "the dead in Christ shall rise first"...

1 Thess 4:15-16
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (actually precede in the Greek) them which are asleep.


16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

KJV

We who are still alive on earth shall not precede the asleep saints who have already died in Christ. Paul is specific about a certain order with that gathering to Jesus. The idea of Jesus bringing the asleep saints with Him when He comes is about the asleep saints having been resurrected and appear with Him in the clouds. THEN... those of us still alive on earth are caught up to them and Jesus.

That's the order Paul taught there.
 
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BABerean2

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As for the 70th week of Daniel and the verses you provided..........not a chance.

Daniel 9:24 is a summary of the 70 weeks prophecy of the coming New Covenant Messiah, who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34. (See Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 8:6-13)
Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah, when the angel Gabriel appeared.


Dan 9:24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
 



Act 10:38  How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 



Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
 (The New Covenant found in Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 



......................................................................

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

......................................................................

Dr. Kelly Varner on Daniel chapter 9:


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