Why Do We Get Onto the Rich About Taxes?

[Aldebaran]

I'm just arguing it's not right for those with power to tell those without power that they are worse sinners than anybody else. It's a form of shaming and it isn't right. IF they don't like somebody else's faults, the Christian thing to do is to help rather than to scorn or shame.

I don't think there's any rich people here doing that. However, a person who has something, whether it be money, power, a job, a certain ability, or anything else is certainly in a much better position to show those who don't have those things how to achieve them. After all, they have demonstrated that they knew how to do it in the first place. I mean, if I'm of low income and always struggling and want to do better, it would be wise of me to ask someone who has a higher income and success as to how they did it, and then follow in their footsteps if they did it honestly.

 

[Sketcher]

God's word for me is not necessarily "don't be envious". What God's word is for you, is going to be different for every person. It's the Holy Spirits job to speak that word to you personally.

This isn't God's word for me:

Those who have, have no right to lecture those who have not, about envy.

Ephesians 5:5 and Colossians 3:5 are, these were written to all Christians from the penniless all the way up to the rich.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think there's any rich people here doing that. However, a person who has something, whether it be money, power, a job, a certain ability, or anything else is certainly in a much better position to show those who don't have those things how to achieve them. After all, they have demonstrated that they knew how to do it in the first place. I mean, if I'm of low income and always struggling and want to do better, it would be wise of me to ask someone who has a higher income and success as to how they did it, and then follow in their footsteps if they did it honestly.

That's just a naive view of the world.

I would never ask business advice from Donald Trump, for instance. He got his wealth because his daddy was rich and he doesn't care who he hurt in his business dealings. Not good advice to emulate.

 

[Aldebaran]

That's just a naive view of the world.

I would never ask business advice from Donald Trump, for instance. He got his wealth because his daddy was rich and he doesn't care who he hurt in his business dealings. Not good advice to emulate.

That's why the last sentence I wrote is relevant: "I mean, if I'm of low income and always struggling and want to do better, it would be wise of me to ask someone who has a higher income and success as to how they did it, and then follow in their footsteps if they did it honestly."

But there are plenty of people of low income who think that the way to have more is to take it away from those who already have it, regardless of how they got it. It's on the basis of the idea that the person who has owes something to the one who has less.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

bc they don't need the money and other people do. There are lots of other reasons but that's the most important one.

Regardless of whether or not someone needs the money that they earned I don't think it's the right of people who have nothing to do with the person who earned the money to say where the money should go.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Many of us went through all of the financial hardships that many of the poor face without complaint or envy. We just plugged away and finally succeeded. My advice to the poor: keep plugging away, you will succeed (although it may take longer than you think).

 

[pakicetus]

Regardless of whether or not someone needs the money that they earned I don't think it's the right of people who have nothing to do with the person who earned the money to say where the money should go.

Making money ain't the same as earning it. Lots of rich people make huge sums of money by inheriting fortunes, or overcharging healthcare patients, or bribing politicians, or underpaying workers. If you want to know who really earned most fortunes, look at the millions of working-class people who are paid low wages to make other people rich, both here and abroad.

 

[pakicetus]

Many of us went through all of the financial hardships that many of the poor face without complaint or envy. We just plugged away and finally succeeded. My advice to the poor: keep plugging away, you will succeed (although it may take longer than you think).

You should look up a useful concept called survivorship bias. You may have left poverty for good. But for everyone like you, there's someone who works hard and still won't get out of poverty, or who will escape poverty for a while only to fall back in later.

Also, you may have placed it in parentheses, but "it may take longer than you think" isn't just a detail. For most poor people, "longer than you think" is too long. Millions of people need healthcare now. They need to feed their kids now. They need a roof over their heads now. They need peace of mind now. And even if they eventually reach comfort and security, that won't erase the years they spent without it. We only get one life on this Earth, and it lasts only a moment. No one should have to waste any of it struggling to escape poverty.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Making money ain't the same as earning it. Lots of rich people make huge sums of money by inheriting fortunes, or scamming people, or overcharging healthcare patients, or bribing politicians, or underpaying workers. If you want to know who really earned a lot of people's fortunes, take a look at the millions of working-class people who are paid slave wages to make other people rich, both here and abroad.

Fair enough brother fair enough. I do agree people are paid unlivable wages and it's pretty sad to see.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You should look up a useful concept called survivorship bias. You may have left poverty for good. But for everyone like you, there's someone who works hard and still won't get out of poverty, or who will escape poverty for a while only to fall back in later.

Survivorship bias=useless gobbledegook in this issue. Also "the poor you will always have with you" isn't going to change anytime soon.

Also, you may have placed it in parentheses, but "it may take longer than you think" isn't just a detail. For most poor people, "longer than you think" is too long.

This 'time imperative' is important if the poor have kids to support, as they are only kids for a short time. Single adults have lots of time to get out of 'poverty'.

Millions of people need healthcare now.

Lacking health care people should tend to their health better. The poor have terrible health habits, which impacts their ability to work.

They need to feed their kids now.

There is no excuse for hunger in America. Good food is abundant and cheap here, especially with welfare programs such as SNAP. The poor too often 'comfort' themselves by overeating the wrong kinds of foods. Obesity is common among the poor, but malnutrition is rare.

They need a roof over their heads now.

Few families with kids are without shelter, and many who are live in the street by choice.

They need peace of mind now.

That comes more from proper thinking than anything else. Advocates and activists could help by not always portraying them as victims and by insisting on more responsibility from their 'clients'.

And even if they eventually reach comfort and security, that won't erase the years they spent without it.

If they have worked their way out of 'poverty' they will cherish those years.

We only get one life on this Earth, and it lasts only a moment.

A common misconception. We are all rich in 'time'. Sadly we waste much of it.

No one should have to waste any of it struggling to escape poverty.

Life is not a Monopoly game where we are given 'start up' money (although that might not be a bad idea). Life is very glitzy today, which leads many to believe that wealth, being everywhere, is easy to obtain. News flash. Life is as tough as it ever was and still requires the same effort to succeed as in any time in the past. The big difference is that there are more opportunities today than every before as the economy is much larger and more diverse than ever before.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Making money ain't the same as earning it. Lots of rich people make huge sums of money by inheriting fortunes, or overcharging healthcare patients, or bribing politicians, or underpaying workers. If you want to know who really earned most fortunes, look at the millions of working-class people who are paid low wages to make other people rich, both here and abroad.

As a follow up comment to my last post, what does this have to do with the poor remaining in or getting out of poverty?

 

[Aldebaran]

Making money ain't the same as earning it. Lots of rich people make huge sums of money by inheriting fortunes, or overcharging healthcare patients, or bribing politicians, or underpaying workers. If you want to know who really earned most fortunes, look at the millions of working-class people who are paid low wages to make other people rich, both here and abroad.

Those millions of working-class people wouldn't have been working and earning anything if it wasn't for the "rich" people who took a chance, opened a business, and hired them.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Wealth is accessible to all in America. But you have to pay your dues through education, planning, work, and sacrifice. Sadly our education system doesn't discourage poor performance, or even failure, thus the A-F grading system. Children fail in subjects they are entirely capable of mastering due to the 'probationary' time limits on learning; if you fall behind, you are abandoned. What is tragic as well is that by the time some kids are in 6th grade they have more education than their parents. There's more to 'generational poverty' than meets the eye.

 

[Belk]

That's why the last sentence I wrote is relevant: "I mean, if I'm of low income and always struggling and want to do better, it would be wise of me to ask someone who has a higher income and success as to how they did it, and then follow in their footsteps if they did it honestly."

But there are plenty of people of low income who think that the way to have more is to take it away from those who already have it, regardless of how they got it. It's on the basis of the idea that the person who has owes something to the one who has less.

Why is it that anytime a social or government policy benefits those who have little someone feels the need to couch it in negative terms like "taking it away from those who have it"? Shouldn't those on the lower end of the income spectrum lobby for policies that help them? Those on the upper end of the spectrum certainly do so.

 

[Aldebaran]

Why is it that anytime a social or government policy benefits those who have little someone feels the need to couch it in negative terms like "taking it away from those who have it"? Shouldn't those on the lower end of the income spectrum lobby for policies that help them? Those on the upper end of the spectrum certainly do so.

If the policy you speak of offered training to do the jobs these people could do, or if the policy allowed a business to expand so that they could offer more jobs, or any number of other policies that would allow for more job creation rather than simply taxing those who have jobs of more of what they earn in order to give it to those who don't have it, then there would be no need to couch it in negative terms like "taking it away from those who have it".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why is it that anytime a social or government policy benefits those who have little someone feels the need to couch it in negative terms like "taking it away from those who have it"? Shouldn't those on the lower end of the income spectrum lobby for policies that help them? Those on the upper end of the spectrum certainly do so.

The poor have their 'lobby' in the form of activists and advocates, many of which are elected officials. Sadly they are more interested in getting freebies for the poor than encouraging the poor to better themselves through time-tested means.

 

[Aldebaran]

The poor have their 'lobby' in the form of activists and advocates, many of which are elected officials. Sadly they are more interested in getting freebies for the poor than encouraging the poor to better themselves through time-tested means.

And then those poor can go to the polls and re-elect those who got them those freebies because those are the politicians who "fight for the little guy".

 

[Belk]

If the policy you speak of offered training to do the jobs these people could do, or if the policy allowed a business to expand so that they could offer more jobs, or any number of other policies that would allow for more job creation rather than simply taxing those who have jobs of more of what they earn in order to give it to those who don't have it, then there would be no need to couch it in negative terms like "taking it away from those who have it".

Who is just having things given to them? As far as I am aware most US safety nets are time limited and have specific requirements to get on to them. So what specific programs are "taxing those who have jobs of more of what they earn in order to give it to those who don't have it"?

 

[Belk]

The poor have their 'lobby' in the form of activists and advocates, many of which are elected officials. Sadly they are more interested in getting freebies for the poor than encouraging the poor to better themselves through time-tested means.

I don't find you to be a credible source for what advocates for the poor want.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I don't find you to be a credible source for what advocates for the poor want.

Advocates are giving the poor a 'fish', not teaching them 'how to fish'. The poor are who provide jobs for advocates. Therefore those advocates, while seeming to care for the poor also want them to remain poor, so they remain employed.