Senate GOP repeals ObamaCare mandate

littotes60

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Well, the simple truth is that healthcare insurance has always been too expensive for individuals to afford.

Plenty of people can buy insurance. The key is that you have to make enough money to do so. If someone is too lazy to get a good job, maybe they shouldn't be so worried about health care.

Forcing individuals to buy insurance was always a bad idea.

I don't even know why we have "insurance" to begin with. You should pay for the healthcare you need at the fair market value. And if someone in America can't afford healthcare then they just have to either deal with it on their own or become less lazy and start making good money.

Healthcare is EXACTLY like buying a new television set. If you can't afford it maybe you shouldn't get it.
 
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mark46

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I don't even know why we have "insurance" to begin with. You should pay for the healthcare you need at the fair market value. And if someone in America can't afford healthcare then they just have to either deal with it on their own or become less lazy and start making good money.

Healthcare is EXACTLY like buying a new television set. If you can't afford it maybe you shouldn't get it.

Yup, if I can't afford surgery, I should just stay home and die of cancer. If I can't afford to treat treated for a communicable disease, I should just keeping going to work and infect others.

What a bunch of nonsense!
 
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wing2000

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Yup, if I can't afford surgery, I should just stay home and die of cancer. If I can't afford to treat treated for a communicable disease, I should just keeping going to work and infect others.

What a bunch of nonsense!


...and you could not afford it because you are lazy.
 
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wing2000

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The libertarian in me understands.. But my utilitarian side protests. When people are uninsured, their medical costs are shifted onto those of us who are covered. Partly through inflated fees. (Which increases our insurance premiums.) And partly through retroactive payments--the vast majority of which come from various levels of government. Kaiser reported on uncompensated care in 2013. (The year before ACA was in effect.) Uninsured patients incurred $85 billion of medical costs. Providers were eventually reimbursed $53 billion through federal and state sources. Which all of us taxpayers have to pay for in the end. It's exactly like states' mandating auto liability coverage. It has nothing to do with safe driving. Insurance is required for financial responsibility. If you injure someone in an at-fault accident, you have a financial resource to pay damages you legally owe. (At least at a minimum level.) Mandatory health coverage ensures that you have at least some ability to pay for medical care that you might receive. So your expenses won't be dumped on the rest of us. And if that's not the essence of conservative economic thinking, then what is?

Uncompensated Care for the Uninsured in 2013: A Detailed Examination

Well said.

Why should I (and my employer) have to pay for the irresponsibility of others?
 
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discipler7

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How different is this than auto insurance?
.
It's different because a person driving a car can cause major damage to other vehicles, properties, pedestrians and/or other drivers, besides to his or her ownself and own car.
... In fact, cars and trucks have been used by Muslim terrorists as weapons of mass murder.

Health insurance is to cover one's own health damage, especially hospitalization to repair the damage. It has nothing to do with covering others' health damage. People take care of their own health.
 
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Tanj

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It's different because a person driving a car can cause major damage to other vehicles, properties, pedestrians and/or other drivers, besides to his or her ownself and own car.

Car Insurance doesn't cover malicious acts. Someone damaging their car through malice doesn't get to claim.

In fact, cars and trucks have been used by Muslim terrorists as weapons of mass murder.

Also non Muslims.
Vehicle-ramming attack - Wikipedia

People take care of their own health.

Except they don't. So everyone else ends up paying for them.
 
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Vylo

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Well, the simple truth is that healthcare insurance has always been too expensive for individuals to afford

Healthcare overall wasn't that expensive. It cost on average $134 in 1958 (when my mother was born. It is now over $8,000 dollars:

The Cost of Health Care: 1958 vs. 2012
 
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I don't think I'm sad about the rich not getting tax breaks on the backs of the poor and the implosion of the healthcare industry, along with a horrendous violation of the 1st amendment. Hopefully the courts strike that part down, but who knows since Trump is injecting his puppets everywhere he can.
"The poor" are not hurt by tax breaks to "the rich". That is because "the poor" don't pay taxes. The only way it affects "the poor" is that they may get less money or stuff from "the rich" via the power of the government's gun.

And I put those two phrases in quotes because I see people as individuals, not part of a group. I care about the individual stories and like to avoid class warfare. That's more of a USSR sort of thing.
 
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wing2000

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"The poor" are not hurt by tax breaks to "the rich". That is because "the poor" don't pay taxes. The only way it affects "the poor" is that they may get less money or stuff from "the rich" via the power of the government's gun.

And I put those two phrases in quotes because I see people as individuals, not part of a group. I care about the individual stories and like to avoid class warfare. That's more of a USSR sort of thing.

...."stuff" such as funding health care for children (CHIP):

Sen. Orin Hatch:
“We’re going to do CHIP, there’s no question about it in my mind. And it’s got to be done the right way,” Hatch said. “But the reason CHIP’s having trouble is because we don’t have money anymore, and to just add more and more spending and more and more spending, and you can look at the rest of the bill for the more and more spending.”
GOP Senator says it’s hard to fund $14 billion children’s health care program — then advocates for $1 trillion tax cut

...and the voted to cut revenues more.
 
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...."stuff" such as funding health care for children (CHIP):
Yes. And much more.

This is not why government exists in this country and DEFINITELY not why the FedGov exists.
 
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hislegacy

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Healthcare overall wasn't that expensive. It cost on average $134 in 1958 (when my mother was born. It is now over $8,000 dollars:

The Cost of Health Care: 1958 vs. 2012


Pfft... thank you Mr. Obama. I actually went online to the Healthcare exchange to get a definitive price for health coverage for my family - me, my wife and son. I make 52,000 a year - here is a screen shot

Capture.JPG


That is the lowest cost - do you see the estimated yearly costs? 13,949.00 how on earth do I afford that?

I bring home just shy of 875 a week. That is 3,500 a month, 1,162.00 of that would have to go for medical insurance costs.
 
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Pfft... thank you Mr. Obama. I actually went online to the Healthcare exchange to get a definitive price for health coverage for my family - me, my wife and son. I make 52,000 a year - here is a screen shot

View attachment 215375

That is the lowest cost - do you see the estimated yearly costs? 13,949.00 how on earth do I afford that?

I bring home just shy of 875 a week. That is 3,500 a month, 1,162.00 of that would have to go for medical insurance costs.
My wife and I are 64. We have had no health care insurance since the day obamacare went into effect. And don't tell anyone, but if you go to a hospital without insurance and have a credit card, health care is very cheap. Still. It's comical, actually. I'm talking 70-90% cheaper.

But our health insurance is Jesus. And he has been very faithful. And we take personal responsibility for our health. i.e. diet and exercise.
 
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wing2000

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Yes. And much more.

This is not why government exists in this country and DEFINITELY not why the FedGov exists.

Then, I guess you won't object when Medicare and other entitlement programs are defunded down the road when the GOP claims we don't have enough money to help those who need it most.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Pfft... thank you Mr. Obama. I actually went online to the Healthcare exchange to get a definitive price for health coverage for my family - me, my wife and son. I make 52,000 a year - here is a screen shot

View attachment 215375

That is the lowest cost - do you see the estimated yearly costs? 13,949.00 how on earth do I afford that?

I bring home just shy of 875 a week. That is 3,500 a month, 1,162.00 of that would have to go for medical insurance costs.

For some reason, this assumes you'll be spending an extra $682/mo on medical expenses on top of your premiums. You'd have to have some kind of chronic illness to be racking up those kinds of bills, in which case, it would likely behoove you to have insurance.
 
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Belk

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Pfft... thank you Mr. Obama. I actually went online to the Healthcare exchange to get a definitive price for health coverage for my family - me, my wife and son. I make 52,000 a year - here is a screen shot

View attachment 215375

That is the lowest cost - do you see the estimated yearly costs? 13,949.00 how on earth do I afford that?

I bring home just shy of 875 a week. That is 3,500 a month, 1,162.00 of that would have to go for medical insurance costs.
You do realize it shows the monthly cost of the plan right on the screen, correct?
 
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iluvatar5150

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Pfft... thank you Mr. Obama. I actually went online to the Healthcare exchange to get a definitive price for health coverage for my family - me, my wife and son. I make 52,000 a year - here is a screen shot

View attachment 215375

That is the lowest cost - do you see the estimated yearly costs? 13,949.00 how on earth do I afford that?

I bring home just shy of 875 a week. That is 3,500 a month, 1,162.00 of that would have to go for medical insurance costs.

No, $480 would go to insurance costs.

And the answer to how you afford it is you live in a state where the median home price is $116,000, like, say, Oklahoma. The lower mortgage payments from the $150k+ you saved on your house (compared to a more densely populated state) would more than cover those projected expenses.
 
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Vylo

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Pfft... thank you Mr. Obama. I actually went online to the Healthcare exchange to get a definitive price for health coverage for my family - me, my wife and son. I make 52,000 a year - here is a screen shot

View attachment 215375

That is the lowest cost - do you see the estimated yearly costs? 13,949.00 how on earth do I afford that?

I bring home just shy of 875 a week. That is 3,500 a month, 1,162.00 of that would have to go for medical insurance costs.

You probably should be thankful, it could have been higher, and if this tax plan destroys the mandate it will be unaffordable.

For my coworker, a plan from our company when he retires is $18,000+ for just him and his wife, and that is with a company subsidy.
 
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Then, I guess you won't object when Medicare and other entitlement programs are defunded down the road when the GOP claims we don't have enough money to help those who need it most.
I would replace "GOP" with "our representtives".

And yes. I've been for that for my entire life. Medicare, medicaid, Social Security, you name it. If I had put into a private savings account what I've put into Social Security my whole life and just let it collect typical CD rates (certificate of deposit), I'd be rich and could live much more comfortably than I could on Social Security.

Did you know that when SS was created, most men died before the age it kicked in? I think SS eligibility should be increased by one year every 3 years until it hits 75. I'm almost 64. When I was younger the "Full" retirement age was 65. They've already bumped it. For me it's now 66. For people younger than me, it's even later. For those of you in high school it might end up even later, though I don't think this country, as we know it, will be around then. In fact, I strongly believe we'll enter the great tribulation way before that.
 
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hislegacy

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You do realize it shows the monthly cost of the plan right on the screen, correct?

Uh, yeah that is why I posted it. The issue is that you have to pay the total deductible before any of the benefits can be used. Well whoop tie do.

No, $480 would go to insurance costs.

And the answer to how you afford it is you live in a state where the median home price is $116,000, like, say, Oklahoma. The lower mortgage payments from the $150k+ you saved on your house (compared to a more densely populated state) would more than cover those projected expenses.

I’d love for you to come show me how!
 
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I’d love for you to come show me how!

My house was about $270,000 and we put 20% down, so my mortgage was about $217,000. Our monthly payment, including property taxes, is around $1700.

For a house half that expensive, you should pay about half that per month. If your property tax rates were higher than mine (as they are for my brother in Houston, where home prices are also low), then maybe the monthly payment drop wouldn't be 1:1. But my rates (2.248%) are almost 3x the average property tax rate in Oklahoma (0.868%), so your payment should be even lower.

The average mortgage payment in OK should be somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,000/mo cheaper than mine. That would cover nearly all of that projected medical expense.

For the record, this is a 1400 sq ft house, so it's not extravagant, and when we bought it a couple years ago, my wife and I were each making about what you are now (I was a shade under it), so it's not like we're rich.
 
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