Why Are We Divided and Can We Fix It (With the Holy Ghost)?

[Monk Brendan]

Sounds like you have no idea what Protestants believe.

Ah, but I do. Protestants believe every thing from Jesus is Not God, to Jesus is the only God. The range goes from Altar servers with white gloves to blue jeans and a T-shirt. The belief also ranges from God can heal--just believe it and you will receive it; to Healing and all the other gifts of the Holy Spirit went away when John the Apostle died. Beliefs also differ between Calvinism and Arianism to Church of England. So, which Protestant do I have no idea about?

And while we're chatting, what do you know about the Eastern Catholic Churches? or Orthodoxy? Or even the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Ah, but I do. Protestants believe every thing from Jesus is Not God, to Jesus is the only God. The range goes from Altar servers with white gloves to blue jeans and a T-shirt. The belief also ranges from God can heal--just believe it and you will receive it; to Healing and all the other gifts of the Holy Spirit went away when John the Apostle died. Beliefs also differ between Calvinism and Arianism to Church of England. So, which Protestant do I have no idea about?

And while we're chatting, what do you know about the Eastern Catholic Churches? or Orthodoxy? Or even the Roman Catholic Church?

You really need to understand other people’s beliefs before you talk. Lumping people into buckets is what lazy people do who don’t want to do the work to find out.

 

[Vicomte13]

You really need to understand other people’s beliefs before you talk. Lumping people into buckets is what lazy people do who don’t want to do the work to find out.

There are two types of people: those who classify people into two groups and those who don't.

 

[Tayla]

This is a very serious question I have concerning denominations. Denominations are NOT scriptural. Schisms and differing doctrines (from the one given by the Apostles in their teachings and letters) are to be avoided. How did we get to have over 3000 denominations? How could we fix this? Do people want to fix this? Could a full on ALL Christians ecumenical council occur to join us at least almost fully together? Is this idea of One Church and One Faith a pipe dream until He returns?

Denominations are scriptural. Christians are to form local communities. This is, at heart, all a denomination is.

The problem is in thinking true Christianity consists in having a specific set of doctrines, a specific kind of worship service, a specific kind of Church government and structure, a specific kind of sermon, a specific kind of day to day thinking, and etc.

In my opinion, Christians are fretting about disunity when they are, in fact, fully united via the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Monk Brendan]

You really need to understand other people’s beliefs before you talk. Lumping people into buckets is what lazy people do who don’t want to do the work to find out.

Forgive me. I served as a missionary in Alaska, and while I was the token "Catholic," I went to many other types of services, from a church with six chairs in a circle, plus a band much louder than the congregation, to a few "mega-churches," where the people were all super quiet, nobody spoke at all, at the preacher preached hell fire and damnation, and after an hour and a half of that, he gave a limp invitation, and nobody came to the altar.

There was a Lutheran church I went to once, and the entire thing was in Swedish. I didn't get a thing out of that. I've been to Greek Orthodox Church once and most of THAT was in Greek.

Then I settled into an AofG church, and sang in the Choir. The place was full of gossip and backbiting, and I was finally asked to leave because of a disagreement with the senior pastor. Now, this was also a mega-church, that billed itself as a, "Table for 5,000" And there, especially, was the table of contents of the church service that I described

 

[ToBeLoved]

There are two types of people: those who classify people into two groups and those who don't.

I can see that. Just resting to educate them with a little truth.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Forgive me. I served as a missionary in Alaska, and while I was the token "Catholic," I went to many other types of services, from a church with six chairs in a circle, plus a band much louder than the congregation, to a few "mega-churches," where the people were all super quiet, nobody spoke at all, at the preacher preached hell fire and damnation, and after an hour and a half of that, he gave a limp invitation, and nobody came to the altar.

There was a Lutheran church I went to once, and the entire thing was in Swedish. I didn't get a thing out of that. I've been to Greek Orthodox Church once and most of THAT was in Greek.

Then I settled into an AofG church, and sang in the Choir. The place was full of gossip and backbiting, and I was finally asked to leave because of a disagreement with the senior pastor. Now, this was also a mega-church, that billed itself as a, "Table for 5,000" And there, especially, was the table of contents of the church service that I described

I see you have been to a service at a few different churches and you are in awe that that doesn’t make you an expert at their beliefs?
You don’t see the hypocrisy there.

 

[Christie insb]

I am not in the position to call anyone a heretic however there can only be one truth unless God has multiple personality disorder. How, for instance can a Calvinist be right and an Arminian? I don't have the answers I know I don't. I have hardly even brushed the surface of theological thought. But I want to worship God and lead people to Jesus and what He actually taught. My apologies if this is offensive.

I think they are both true in a way we cannot understand. If we all start spouting our favorite Bible verses on this, I think we will see a glorious God..

 

[SBC]

Why Are We Divided and Can We Fix It (With the Holy Ghost)?

Why?
Because the LEFT thinks it's RIGHT.
And the RIGHT knows it's RIGHT.

We Fix?
No

We fix, With the Holy Ghost?
No.
We with the Holy Ghost, have become RIGHT.
Those without the Holy Ghost, are still not RIGHT.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Acts 13
[10] And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Monk Brendan]

I see you have been to a service at a few different churches and you are in awe that that doesn’t make you an expert at their beliefs?
You don’t see the hypocrisy there.

Not a few services. Hundreds. I know full well what goes into Protestantism, and it doesn't awe me at all. I find it AWful. And I try, very hard, not to be the hypocrite that others do.

I don't judge! Or at least try very hard! Jesus told us not to do it.
I am not an expert, however. That would make me a has-been drip under pressure.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Not a few services. Hundreds. I know full well what goes into Protestantism, and it doesn't awe me at all. I find it AWful. And I try, very hard, not to be the hypocrite that others do.

I don't judge! Or at least try very hard! Jesus told us not to do it.
I am not an expert, however. That would make me a has-been drip under pressure.

Your words are not accurate so I really read how little you know.

So you’ve attended hundreds of services about your God that you find “aweful”.

Now that is a waste. Who does that?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Your words are not accurate so I really read how little you know.

So you’ve attended hundreds of services about your God that you find “aweful”.

Now that is a waste. Who does that?

How are my words not so accurate? I am the one reporting to you about MY experiences. You have no idea of my feelings, what is going on in my heart, or how accurate my account is.

I grew up Roman Catholic. I went to 8 years of Roman Catholic schooling. As such, I know Roman Doctrine.

When I graduated from High School, I was an atheist. I didn't believe in God, and was mad at God for Him not existing.Being an atheist is difficult, especially when you see God's love shining down in the sunlight, the green fields, etc. So I amended my stand, and decided that I was an agnostic. For a while, I was okay with that, as long as He didn't bother me, I wouldn't bother him.

Through a long and twisted path, I finally came back to the simplicity of the Gospel, and I went back to the RCC, where I tried to cooperate with Jesus instead of fighting Him. The night I started cooperating, I received the gift of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I felt Him flood through me.

Within two months, God called me to be a missionary. So I packed up, bag and baggage, and left for Alaska to work at a missionary radio station called KJNP, in North Pole, AK. I spent a year there, being a disc jockey, and listening to radio sermons. We had to log the "commercial" (i.e. begging) portions of the show, because that content was taxable. Well, some of these half-hour programs would run 20 minutes of begging, and 10 minutes of preaching!

I was disgusted! Some of these radio evangelists were spending more time begging for money than preaching about the Lord! Well, I held on, and listened and learned. I found out that what this pious radio station cared more about was money and politics rather than the Gospel.

During that time, I sampled the Protestant Churches in town, (Fairbanks) and the surrounding area. I attended churches where there were hundreds, and sometimes thousands in the congregation plus the radio audience. On the other hand, there was this one church at a wide spot on the road with a congregation of six. The preaching was good, but for whatever reason, the church refused to grow any larger. The preaching styles were varied, from on preacher who hollered everything--even though the congregation was less than 100 people; to preachers who would mumble into his microphone and couldn't be heard. When I could, I would go to Sunday Mass, but as I didn't have a car, I either had to walk or hitch a ride.

I worked for a year, sometimes having to gnash my teeth, to sound pleasant to the radio audience, and fill up their time with radio programming. At the end of the year, I was dead broke, had NO income, and I fell down on a bare wood surface and broke my back--a compression fracture of the 12T.

I had to go home, as the doctor told me that Alaska would kill me if I stayed any more time. By that time I was ready to come back home, as to go any farther would have made me angry at all of the crap from different preachers, each one telling people they had to do this or that to get saved. And, of course, they all wanted everyone to tithe into that program's piggy bank. "We're so poor! If we don't get added funding, we are going to have to start cutting back on the number of radio stations we broadcast to. Every day, the same appeal.

The same month I came back from Alaska, I made a Cursillo, which is a short course in Christianity. This was a Roman Catholic group. There, I heard the Gospel preached in its simplicity, and God moved across my heart to begin working with them. Which I did for the best part of 20 years.

Certain changes in my life caused me leave the Catholic Church, and I ended up at an Assembly of God church in Rockford, Illinois. I attended for a few years, and the preaching style, even the doctrinal content varied from one pastor to another. When I started attending. the Music Minister was this flaming queen. Everyone there knew he was gay, and that he had a taste for little boys. However, the senior pastor kept him there even though he removed a couple of other "Associate Pastors" for the same thing.

Well, the Senior Pastor was offered a job at the AofG headquarters, and the church began looking for a new Senior Pastor. Eventually, we elected Ron Hembree, a genial fraud who threw out several members of the preaching staff to put his own family in. So, after the change, we had the senior pastor, then his wife, his father and mother, and one of his sons. Then he had a "vision" that God wanted him to build a table for 5,000--in order to become a mega-church and a mini-denomination. This silliness went on for several years, until the new church was built. Still, even among members of the Hembree family, the preaching varied from one person to another, the doctrine was uneven, to say the least. I even had a lay leader tell me that, seeing as how I had never been married, I was supposed to pray, and ask God to find out what spiritual "color" I was, and once I found out what it was, I was supposed to ask God to bring a lady into my life that was a complimentary "color," so that we could match with each other, and in our marriage, create a NEW "color." That was the breaking point, I went back to the RCC, and prepared to live a single. celibate life.

Changes in my body caused me to move to Phoenix, Arizona. (I was over 40 years old, I needed a gentler climate, and i was beginning to have health issues. The Cursillo group here in Phoenix was mostly a Spanish-American thing, and even though I was a national leader in the movement I couldn't speak Spanish.

A couple of years went by, and I still hadn't fond a real church home. Most of the Catholic Churches around here were heavily Hispanic. Fine, I have no problem with ANY race, creed or color of people. But, I would like to understand the sermon.

Then I met Fr. Basil online. At the time, he was Orthodox but he invited me to join a hermitage he was planning in Phoenix. His warm, caring, Christian heart encouraged me, and after not a long time, I was with him as a novice. After a time of instruction, he asked if I was ready for tonsure, and I said yes.

That was about 12 years ago. soon after, I saw the difficulties inherent in the various Orthodox jurisdictions. So we began investigating the so called "Uniate" churches, Those churches that use a byzantine style of worship while still being in communion with the pope. We finally chose the Melkite parish here in Phoenix, and we love everybody there, and they love us right back. We are valued for our piety, and our prayers.

So yes, I have seen hundreds of worship services, and I can say that the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is better by far than ANY Protestant service I have EVER seen.

 

[FireDragon76]

I prefer to just identify as Lutheran, not Protestant. It creates less confusion. Protestant is now largely a negative term that tells you almost nothing about your beliefs.

I told my pastor you are more likely to hear the Gospel in a Catholic church now days than a random Protestant church. He agreed. At least in a Catholic church you can go to confession and hear the Gospel.

 

[ToBeLoved]

How are my words not so accurate? I am the one reporting to you about MY experiences. You have no idea of my feelings, what is going on in my heart, or how accurate my account is.

I grew up Roman Catholic. I went to 8 years of Roman Catholic schooling. As such, I know Roman Doctrine.

When I graduated from High School, I was an atheist. I didn't believe in God, and was mad at God for Him not existing.Being an atheist is difficult, especially when you see God's love shining down in the sunlight, the green fields, etc. So I amended my stand, and decided that I was an agnostic. For a while, I was okay with that, as long as He didn't bother me, I wouldn't bother him.

Through a long and twisted path, I finally came back to the simplicity of the Gospel, and I went back to the RCC, where I tried to cooperate with Jesus instead of fighting Him. The night I started cooperating, I received the gift of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I felt Him flood through me.

Within two months, God called me to be a missionary. So I packed up, bag and baggage, and left for Alaska to work at a missionary radio station called KJNP, in North Pole, AK. I spent a year there, being a disc jockey, and listening to radio sermons. We had to log the "commercial" (i.e. begging) portions of the show, because that content was taxable. Well, some of these half-hour programs would run 20 minutes of begging, and 10 minutes of preaching!

I was disgusted! Some of these radio evangelists were spending more time begging for money than preaching about the Lord! Well, I held on, and listened and learned. I found out that what this pious radio station cared more about was money and politics rather than the Gospel.

During that time, I sampled the Protestant Churches in town, (Fairbanks) and the surrounding area. I attended churches where there were hundreds, and sometimes thousands in the congregation plus the radio audience. On the other hand, there was this one church at a wide spot on the road with a congregation of six. The preaching was good, but for whatever reason, the church refused to grow any larger. The preaching styles were varied, from on preacher who hollered everything--even though the congregation was less than 100 people; to preachers who would mumble into his microphone and couldn't be heard. When I could, I would go to Sunday Mass, but as I didn't have a car, I either had to walk or hitch a ride.

I worked for a year, sometimes having to gnash my teeth, to sound pleasant to the radio audience, and fill up their time with radio programming. At the end of the year, I was dead broke, had NO income, and I fell down on a bare wood surface and broke my back--a compression fracture of the 12T.

I had to go home, as the doctor told me that Alaska would kill me if I stayed any more time. By that time I was ready to come back home, as to go any farther would have made me angry at all of the crap from different preachers, each one telling people they had to do this or that to get saved. And, of course, they all wanted everyone to tithe into that program's piggy bank. "We're so poor! If we don't get added funding, we are going to have to start cutting back on the number of radio stations we broadcast to. Every day, the same appeal.

The same month I came back from Alaska, I made a Cursillo, which is a short course in Christianity. This was a Roman Catholic group. There, I heard the Gospel preached in its simplicity, and God moved across my heart to begin working with them. Which I did for the best part of 20 years.

Certain changes in my life caused me leave the Catholic Church, and I ended up at an Assembly of God church in Rockford, Illinois. I attended for a few years, and the preaching style, even the doctrinal content varied from one pastor to another. When I started attending. the Music Minister was this flaming queen. Everyone there knew he was gay, and that he had a taste for little boys. However, the senior pastor kept him there even though he removed a couple of other "Associate Pastors" for the same thing.

Well, the Senior Pastor was offered a job at the AofG headquarters, and the church began looking for a new Senior Pastor. Eventually, we elected Ron Hembree, a genial fraud who threw out several members of the preaching staff to put his own family in. So, after the change, we had the senior pastor, then his wife, his father and mother, and one of his sons. Then he had a "vision" that God wanted him to build a table for 5,000--in order to become a mega-church and a mini-denomination. This silliness went on for several years, until the new church was built. Still, even among members of the Hembree family, the preaching varied from one person to another, the doctrine was uneven, to say the least. I even had a lay leader tell me that, seeing as how I had never been married, I was supposed to pray, and ask God to find out what spiritual "color" I was, and once I found out what it was, I was supposed to ask God to bring a lady into my life that was a complimentary "color," so that we could match with each other, and in our marriage, create a NEW "color." That was the breaking point, I went back to the RCC, and prepared to live a single. celibate life.

Changes in my body caused me to move to Phoenix, Arizona. (I was over 40 years old, I needed a gentler climate, and i was beginning to have health issues. The Cursillo group here in Phoenix was mostly a Spanish-American thing, and even though I was a national leader in the movement I couldn't speak Spanish.

A couple of years went by, and I still hadn't fond a real church home. Most of the Catholic Churches around here were heavily Hispanic. Fine, I have no problem with ANY race, creed or color of people. But, I would like to understand the sermon.

Then I met Fr. Basil online. At the time, he was Orthodox but he invited me to join a hermitage he was planning in Phoenix. His warm, caring, Christian heart encouraged me, and after not a long time, I was with him as a novice. After a time of instruction, he asked if I was ready for tonsure, and I said yes.

That was about 12 years ago. soon after, I saw the difficulties inherent in the various Orthodox jurisdictions. So we began investigating the so called "Uniate" churches, Those churches that use a byzantine style of worship while still being in communion with the pope. We finally chose the Melkite parish here in Phoenix, and we love everybody there, and they love us right back. We are valued for our piety, and our prayers.

So yes, I have seen hundreds of worship services, and I can say that the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is better by far than ANY Protestant service I have EVER seen.

I’m not commenting on your feelings or experiences.

You said you know Protestant theology. You then started writing out that theology, but it was not correct.

I am correcting your description of Protestant theology. Just because you went to the churches doesn’t mean you know the theology.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I prefer to just identify as Lutheran, not Protestant. It creates less confusion. Protestant is now largely a negative term that tells you almost nothing about your beliefs.

I told my pastor you are more likely to hear the Gospel in a Catholic church now days than a random Protestant church. He agreed. At least in a Catholic church you can go to confession and hear the Gospel.

How do you hear the gospel at a Catholic confession?

 

[FireDragon76]

"God, The Father of Mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself, and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of Sins. through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, + and of the Holy Spirit."

That's almost identical to what Lutherans say, and we regard absolution as a form of preaching the Gospel, applied to the individual. It could also be considered a sacrament, inasmuch as it is a means of grace.

Compare to the Lutheran form (ELCA):

"Almighty God in His mercy has given His Son to die for us and for His sake forgives you all your sins. As a called and ordained minister of the Church of Christ, and by his authority, I therefore declare to you the entire forgiveness of all your sins, in the name of the Father and of the + Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

The LCMS form is even closer to the Catholic in wording, particularly "I forgive you all your sins".

 

[Kajiki]

Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.

I truly feel it was a childish mistake to post this thread. I still wish Christianity was more unified than it is however I am aware of how strongly some hold to their doctrine. I am young, unlearned, and unrooted in a denomination anymore. The Nicene Creed is the truth. Scripture is truth. Some traditions are Godly. That's all I know to be true. I don't know where I will be in fifty years however I do know I will show the love that He has for me. I guess that's the whole point in the end. Show God's love to each others and the outsiders in hopes of them joining us.

God Bless

 

[FireDragon76]

It can be a journey but I think many of us simply get older, busy with our families, run out of energy and are happy with the church and doctrines we have, as I pointed out here:

Is Eastern Orthodox the one true church?

 

[Monk Brendan]

You said you know Protestant theology. You then started writing out that theology, but it was not correct.

I am correcting your description of Protestant theology. Just because you went to the churches doesn’t mean you know the theology.

If your description of Protestant theology has Sola Scriptura, or Sola Fide, or any other Latin words, then your description is going to be incorrect. The Bible does NOT say ONLY scripture can be used in theology, or that ONLY faith in Jesus will get you to heaven, you are BADLY mistaken. Luther put that ONLY in Romans 1:17, not the Holy Spirit, where the Just “shall live by faith.” For if we are ONLY judged by our faith, then why has God said, (1Cor 3: 12-13)"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Now, if only perfection is allowed into heaven, and you are on trial, to find what good you have done in the world, and you are dead on earth, then where are you? The Roman Catholic Church calls this place "Purgatory." Whether YOU want to believe it or not, it is true.