The Major Discrepancy Between Ezekiel and Johns New Jerusalem.

Davy

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The phrase “second coming” appears no where in the Bible. Nothing but a sectarian teaching.

Now's that truly straining at a gnat. That phrase doesn't have to be written as is to be Biblical. All one need do is count the number of times Jesus comes. TWICE per Scripture. So it's not my fault some have a problem counting.
 
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Davy

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Zech 9:9-10
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.


Jesus' 1st coming (above).


10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV


Jesus' 2nd coming (still future).

And wow! That's Old Testament prophecy! I guess we're supposed to study ALL... of God's Word? yes.
 
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keras

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Now's that truly straining at a gnat. That phrase doesn't have to be written as is to be Biblical. All one need do is count the number of times Jesus comes. TWICE per Scripture. So it's not my fault some have a problem counting.
There is yet to happen two 'comings' of the Lord Jesus:
The first in fire, the Lord's Day of wrath; Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 He won't be seen on His Day of wrath. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4
The second in glory, His Return for the Millennium reign; Revelation 19:11, Matthew 24:30, Zechariah 14:3 All the world will see Jesus Return. Matthew 20:30, Acts 1:11
 
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Davy

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There is yet to happen two 'comings' of the Lord Jesus:
The first in fire, the Lord's Day of wrath; Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 He won't be seen on His Day of wrath. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4
The second in glory, His Return for the Millennium reign; Revelation 19:11, Matthew 24:30, Zechariah 14:3 All the world will see Jesus Return. Matthew 20:30, Acts 1:11

Those are actually all descriptions of the same event, the Day of The Lord when our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming happens.

The Rev.6:14 is a reference to the events of Isaiah 34 on the day of The Lord.

Isaiah 66:10-24 is about the events of Christ's 2nd coming, the "thousand years" of Rev.20, and thereafter with the new heavens and a new earth.

Zeph.3:8 is about the destruction of the Gog/Magog armies out of the northern quarters that will come upon Jerusalem on the last day of this world, which is the time of our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming. Ezekiel 38 and 39 especially, God gives the idea that His people won't be the ones to defeat that army, but that He will be The One, and that is how His enemies will know the destruction will be from Him.

2 Pet.3:7 is about that day of The Lord God spoke of through His OT prophets. That is the day when all these events will occur 'suddenly', at an 'instant', with Christ's coming. An OT study of all the scriptures about the day of The Lord events will reveal where it was first written that our Lord Jesus and His Apostles were teaching it from.

1 Thess 5:1-3
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV


Apostle Paul was teaching that from the OT prophets. That's where Paul got that idea of when the deceived begin saying, "Peace and safety", that's when that "sudden destruction" will come upon them.

In Rev.16 on the 6th Vial timing, our Lord Jesus warned that He comes "as a thief". That idea of coming as a thief is from the OT prophets about the day of The Lord which is about God's consuming fire ending this present world age, and destroying the wicked (mainly the Armageddon northern army). In Isaiah 29, God said it will happen "at an instant, suddenly". His descriptions there are very graphic.

The "Peace and safety" idea is about the gathering of nations at the end for the Rev.13 beast kingdom of ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads. Rev.11 shows the nations will be against God's two witnesses He will send in that time, as they will have parties and give each other gifts once the two witnesses who tormented them are killed. This reveals all wars having stopped, with the one world government control supporting world peace (albiet a fake peace).

So really, all those Scriptures about the return of our Lord Jesus are on the same day and hour. It's just that much is written about those events to occur on that day, though they will actually occur in a very short span of time ("at an instant, suddenly" per Isaiah 29).
 
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Truth7t7

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Rev.21 is specific about no temple being there, thus pointing to the final new Jerusalem. So we're given specific differences between the Ezekiel and Revelation view because they are for two different times. The Ezekiel vision is the 'same' Jerusalem time and location as Revelation 22:14-15, which is the Millennial reign time...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Those two verses are in the same timeframe, which is what timing? The wicked are living outside the gates of that beloved city, so we know it's not new heavens, and new earth timing yet. It has to be the "thousand years" timing of Rev.20 when Satan is locked up. Yet there it is, "the tree of life" manifested inside the gates of the city with only the saved having right to it, showing a separation between Christ's sheep and the goats during His future Millennial reign.
Christ does not have goats in the sheepfold of his pasture as you claim.

the goats are the wicked, that are judged to the lake of fire Matthew 25:41
 
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DeaconDean

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Christ does not have goats in the sheepfold of his pasture

the goats are the wicked, that are judged to the lake of fire Matthew 25:41

Evidently, you have not read Rev. 20.

At the beginning of the millennial reign, Satan is bound.

Then at the end, Satan is "loosed for a little season" to see who he can deceive.

So evidently, there are some here who "only seem" to be saved.

At the end of all this, then he is cast into the lake of fire, and the Great White Throne Judgment takes place.

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season...And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." -Rev. 20:2-3, 7-15 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Truth7t7

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Evidently, you have not read Rev. 20.

At the beginning of the millennial reign, Satan is bound.

Then at the end, Satan is "loosed for a little season" to see who he can deceive.

So evidently, there are some here who "only seem" to be saved.

At the end of all this, then he is cast into the lake of fire, and the Great White Throne Judgment takes place.

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season...And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." -Rev. 20:2-3, 7-15 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.
The GWT judgment seen in Revelation 20:11-15 takes place at the return of Jesus Christ with the Holy angels, Matthew 25:31-46 is a parallel teaching of the same event :)

Verses 31-32 Jesus returns with the Holy angels, the nations are gathered before the throne for judgment.

Verse 34 The "Eternal Kingdom" is presented to the righteous.

Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the "Eternal Lake Of Fire"

Verse 46 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life" and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34

Pretty Simple :)

At the Return Of Jesus Christ, The Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom Takes Place :)

There will be no 1000 year kingdom on this earth as many teach in error.

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Not everything in those OT prophecies were fulfilled at Christ's 1st coming though. Much of what you quoted is about fulfillment at Christ's 2nd coming, especially the gathering of Jacob's seed, which also includes the ten lost tribes of Israel which were never known as Jews.

Those who only preach out of The New Testament will not know in what 'watch' we are in today. Apostle Peter told us to be mindful also of the prophets, as there is much Scripture in the prophets yet to be fulfilled today.
Fitst off no such thing as a "second" coming. The phrase does not exisit in the NT. Seondly almost none of those scriptures were fullfilled in the first century. The process only began then.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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Then let's all put on Indian guru gowns and become swamis, if that's all the kingdom of Christ is, just some eastern religious thought.

No, Christ's eternal Kingdom, is not only a spiritual kingdom, but also one that will have substance on this earth, because the meek are promised to inherit the earth. Are the meek already inheriting this earth? No, of course not. The central bankers that control the economies of the nations make sure the majority of peoples cannot get out from under their debt. Nations are still going broke because of those banking elites and their political lackeys. Murderers are still on the loose, wars are still going on, the poor are still with us, many are hungry, disease is still rampant. Only a lunatic would actually believe Christ's Kingdom to come is already manifest on earth today.
Sorry, I'll take Christs word on it. And yes, the meek are in the long term processs of inheriting the earth. You have to be born from above to see it though.
The Parables About the Government of God

TPOTK.jpg
 
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Truth7t7

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Keras you teach in error, as you have the day of the Lords wrath in 2 Peter 3:10-13 taking place.

Then you teach after the event see below, Jesus Christ returns to a earth with mortal humans watching.

Keras the earth no longer exists, because its was "Dissolved" by the Lords wrath in judgment, "Gone" Isaiah 24:20.

"Seeing Then That All These Things Shall Be Dissolved"

Verse 13 clearly teaches the believer to look for the "New Heaven & Earth", seen in Revelation 21:1-5 :)

Not a earthly kingdom of 1000 years, found no place in the scripture.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

In The Love Of Jesus Christ.

Truth7t7


There is yet to happen two 'comings' of the Lord Jesus:
The first in fire, the Lord's Day of wrath; Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 He won't be seen on His Day of wrath. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4
The second in glory, His Return for the Millennium reign; Revelation 19:11, Matthew 24:30, Zechariah 14:3 All the world will see Jesus Return. Matthew 20:30, Acts 1:11
 
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Davy

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Sorry, I'll take Christs word on it. And yes, the meek are in the long term processs of inheriting the earth. You have to be born from above to see it though.


Sorry, I don't go to links to hear others speak for you. I only consider what the poster says.

When the meek inherit this earth, it's not about some "long term process" which is instead a one-world-order view of the coming Rev.13 beast kingdom, and not a Christian view from God's Word about His future Kingdom setup on earth.
 
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Davy

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Christ does not have goats in the sheepfold of his pasture as you claim.

the goats are the wicked, that are judged to the lake of fire Matthew 25:41

I never claimed the goats of Matt.25 Jesus puts on His left hand are mixed in with His sheep He puts on His right hand. You have made a falsehood...

Matt 25:31-33
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:

32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
KJV


Moreover, our Lord Jesus in Matt.25 did not reveal exactly when those goats on the left hand go into the lake of fire. But in His Revelation He did reveal it, and it's AFTER the "thousand years" of Rev.20 is over, and not before like you are trying to change Scripture to read.
 
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Davy

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There is yet to happen two 'comings' of the Lord Jesus:
The first in fire, the Lord's Day of wrath; Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 He won't be seen on His Day of wrath. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4
The second in glory, His Return for the Millennium reign; Revelation 19:11, Matthew 24:30, Zechariah 14:3 All the world will see Jesus Return. Matthew 20:30, Acts 1:11

I'm not a pre-trib rapturist. I believe only in a post-tribulational coming of our Lord Jesus to gather His Church and begin the future thousand years of Rev.20.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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So what do you dispensationalist who fancy yourselves as literalists think of the horrendous discrepancies in Ezekiel's and John's visions of the New Jerusalem? Since you believe this to be a timeline of future prophetic events that both clearly come after the Gog and Magog prophecy. You can't possibly say these are different prophecies. Yet in Ezekiel's vision the New Jerusalem is 1.5 miles squared and in Johns vision it is 144 miles cubed. Essentially Ezekiel sees the New Jerusalem about the same size as it was and John see's a city that if you put 10 foot stories in it could hold hundreds of billions of people as it could contain 1.5 billion square miles of floor space. The land area of the earth is only approx. 58 million square miles. That quite a discrepancy if you take this literally. Note* Gingerbeer pointed out my calculations on the size of Revelations New Jerusalem were wrong based on its not 144 miles cubed but 1400 miles cubed. Sorry. If there were 12 foot stories in that it would give it 1.2 Trillion square miles of floor space. Which is about 21,000 times the land are of the earth.Then there are other things like the number of the trees' precisely what are they for etc etc.

So what are you to do with this? Did God change his mind on the scope and size of the city somewhere down the line? Did more people get saved than he anticipated so he decided to make a new dispensation? Does God like the idea of mega churches better than small intimate churches so he decided to go mega? Was ancient Israel all he had in mind at the time but then decided to branch out to the gentile nations? Or is it as the secularists say. This is positive proof that God did not write the Bible because we have a contradiction as big as the east is from the west? O wait I know. The Jews both the believers and unbelievers get the little city as promised to Abraham and the church gets the mega city. Come on now think. There can be only one reasonable and logical answer to this dilemma. Any takers?
Ezekiel's temple is the millennial temple on earth. There is no temple in the New Jerusalem.
The Glory of the New Jerusalem
Revelation 21
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

There happens to be a temple that will be built that will be on earth during the tribulation, and the dimensions of that temple are recorded in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in the Temple scroll. It will be built, next, and maybe even before the rapture, for the final battle that is recorded in the war scroll of the DSS has a battle lasting 40 years, and that temple will be standing at that time. and will not be the millennial temple.
 
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Davy

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Fitst off no such thing as a "second" coming. The phrase does not exisit in the NT. Seondly almost none of those scriptures were fullfilled in the first century. The process only began then.

Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

KJV

You might want to study more before making such statements.

Jesus is going to appear only one more time, and it will be when He comes to gather His Church. There is only two times in Bible prophecy that He is written to appear on earth. But there are many Scriptures written of events that are to take place at His next appearing.
 
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Davy

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Ezekiel's temple is the millennial temple on earth. There is no temple in the New Jerusalem.
The Glory of the New Jerusalem
Revelation 21
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

That is very... true. We agree on that. The meat of what is going to happen with that Ezekiel sanctuary when Jesus returns is in the Ezek.40-47 chapters though.
 
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DavidPT

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Rev.21 is specific about no temple being there, thus pointing to the final new Jerusalem. So we're given specific differences between the Ezekiel and Revelation view because they are for two different times. The Ezekiel vision is the 'same' Jerusalem time and location as Revelation 22:14-15, which is the Millennial reign time...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Those two verses are in the same timeframe, which is what timing? The wicked are living outside the gates of that beloved city, so we know it's not new heavens, and new earth timing yet. It has to be the "thousand years" timing of Rev.20 when Satan is locked up. Yet there it is, "the tree of life" manifested inside the gates of the city with only the saved having right to it, showing a separation between Christ's sheep and the goats during His future Millennial reign.


You're on the right track here. Your mistake is thinking this is not the new heavens and new earth, though you clearly acknowledged that the tree of life will be present during this time. Where will the tree of life be located? In the new Jerusalem of course. Where will the new Jerusalem be? In the new heavens and new earth of course. Per my view, I tend to conclude the thousand years are the first thousand years of the everlasting new Jerusalem and everlasting new heavens and new earth.

As to the goats, no there will not also be any goats upon the earth during the thousand years. Math 25 makes it clear that they have already been judged and sentenced at this point. Consider Zech 14 instead, and the survivors in that chapter. None of these would be the goats of Matt 25 though.
 
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Truth7t7

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Ezekiel's temple is the millennial temple on earth. There is no temple in the New Jerusalem.
The Glory of the New Jerusalem
Revelation 21
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

There happens to be a temple that will be built that will be on earth during the tribulation, and the dimensions of that temple are recorded in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in the Temple scroll. It will be built, next, and maybe even before the rapture, for the final battle that is recorded in the war scroll of the DSS has a battle lasting 40 years, and that temple will be standing at that time. and will not be the millennial temple.
There is no earthly 1000 year kingdom foundin scripture.
 
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Davy

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Ezekiel's temple is the millennial temple on earth. There is no temple in the New Jerusalem.
The Glory of the New Jerusalem
Revelation 21
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

There happens to be a temple that will be built that will be on earth during the tribulation, and the dimensions of that temple are recorded in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in the Temple scroll. It will be built, next, and maybe even before the rapture, for the final battle that is recorded in the war scroll of the DSS has a battle lasting 40 years, and that temple will be standing at that time. and will not be the millennial temple.

I'm not aware of what all the Dead Sea scrolls declare, I'm just familiar that Isaiah scripture was found with them which has helped prove the authenticity of The Bible. I'm also aware of the sect of the Essenes, and that quite a bit of those scrolls has their teachings, but I don't consider that part of God's Word.

The Book of Daniel indirectly reveals the building of a new temple in Jerusalem for sacrificial worship again at the very end of this present world. That one will not... be the Ezekiel sanctuary of Ezek.40-47. The next temple will be for the coming Antichrist to sit and play God in.
 
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DavidPT

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There is no earthly 1000 year kingdom foundin scripture.


Why do you keep calling it an earthly 1000 year kingdom? There is no such thing as a thousand year kingdom. There is only one kingdom once Jesus returns, and that is the everlasting kingdom. The thousand years are simply the first thousand years of the everlasting kingdom. There are not two kingdoms instead, where the first one lasts 1000 years, followed by an everlasting kingdom. That's ludicrous IMO.
 
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