God is big

primarymay

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Proverbs 15:21

Foolishness brings joy to those with no sense; a sensible person stays on the right path.

2nd Timothy 2

16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness ...
Why should I take this seriously, I don't have to follow something I don't believe in.

But you do.
 
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primarymay

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How Big is God?

]
Job 38

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:

2 “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Dress for action like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?


Go read Job Chapters 38 & 39 - How "Big" God is.

Revelation

8“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

1st Corinthians 13

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no account of wrongs. 6 Love takes no pleasure in evil, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

1 John 4

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

God IS love. I
I'm hard pressed where it might say that God is in fact big, as in size.
 
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primarymay

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Maybe you're taking this phrase, whatever the source is, a bit too literally. I don't think describing God's love as 'unmeasurable' is a statement of how physically big it is, or how much volume it has, or some other measurement of that sort. It means something along the lines of it being difficult to put limits on how, in terms of our capacity to understand it, as Paul puts it, high wide and deep is the love God feels and demonstrates towards us.
The problem with God being unmeasurable, is that there would be no end to him. Therefore creating a paradoxical problem, he'd be greater than the parts of himself.
 
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Tom 1

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The problem with God being unmeasurable, is that there would be no end to him. Therefore creating a paradoxical problem, he'd be greater than the parts of himself.

Hello, for this line of reasoning to be valid, I mean logically valid, you need a working definition of your subject and a different set of criteria, or at the least different terminology. Speaking about the ´bigness´of God or of his love being ´unmeasurable´ or of his ´parts´ is speaking figuratively, that´s your starting point. If you take those terms to mean that God has actual physical size, or that there is some sort of unit for measuring the volume of God´s love, or that his love is a ´part´of him in the sense of a physical part like an elbow or a finger, then your working definitions of God, and of love, don´t describe the God of the bible or give a satisfying definition of love. First of all, God is spirit - we don´t really have an adequate way of describing what that means, well not one I´m aware of in any case. In answer to Moses saying ´who shall I say sent me´God says ´I am´. I take this to mean an absolute expression of existence, absolute in the sense of being beyond terms of reference like size, time etc. He exists in a way that we cannot understand because he is outside of all of our terms of reference, we say that he is spirit but what do we mean by that? He is not bound by time, or physical size, or any other dimensions. There are no limits to his existential nature - he is a full and complete expression of who he is, and his existence is absolute. Secondly, God´s love is not part of him, it is an expression of who he is, in the same absolute way that he simply ´is´. We can talk about God´s love or God´s justice as being ´parts of him´, but that´s figurative language, it´s not using language used to describe something physical. He´s not made of lego, with parts than can be taken off and measured. Lastly you need to define what you mean by ´measure´. Love does not have physical dimensions. For instance, I can say ´I love my dog´, and, if you were curious, you might ask ok how much do you love your dog - so how would you measure that? Well, you can´t, because there isn´t a unit of measure for love, because love does not have properties that make it measurable, in the sense of defining its size or volume. You can however find out what the limits of that love are by testing the expression of it, you could ask me for example would you do this or that for your dog and so on, to get some idea of how far my willingness to do things for my dog can give you an impression of how my love for my dog is expressed and so what are the limits of my love for my dog. You could then say, if you wanted to use archaic language, that you ´have the measure´ of my love for my dog, i.e. that you have tested it and have some notion of how it is expressed, but you can´t really say in modern English that you have measured it if you want to be accurate about what you are saying. So, again if you want to pursue this argument you need to rethink your understanding of your subject and the terminology you´re using.
 
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The problem with God being unmeasurable, is that there would be no end to him. Therefore creating a paradoxical problem, he'd be greater than the parts of himself.

You might want to look into philosophical concepts like divine simplicity. Especially in the Neoplatonic tradition (which informed a lot of early Christian theology), monotheism was embraced because they didn't believe that the ultimate nature of reality could be a composite of parts. I can't find anything specifically on that issue, but you might find this more general article useful: Why Is There Anything At All? It’s Simple | Edward Feser
 
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primarymay

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Hello, for this line of reasoning to be valid, I mean logically valid, you need a working definition of your subject and a different set of criteria, or at the least different terminology. Speaking about the ´bigness´of God or of his love being ´unmeasurable´ or of his ´parts´ is speaking figuratively, that´s your starting point. If you take those terms to mean that God has actual physical size, or that there is some sort of unit for measuring the volume of God´s love, or that his love is a ´part´of him in the sense of a physical part like an elbow or a finger, then your working definitions of God, and of love, don´t describe the God of the bible or give a satisfying definition of love. First of all, God is spirit - we don´t really have an adequate way of describing what that means, well not one I´m aware of in any case. In answer to Moses saying ´who shall I say sent me´God says ´I am´. I take this to mean an absolute expression of existence, absolute in the sense of being beyond terms of reference like size, time etc. He exists in a way that we cannot understand because he is outside of all of our terms of reference, we say that he is spirit but what do we mean by that? He is not bound by time, or physical size, or any other dimensions. There are no limits to his existential nature - he is a full and complete expression of who he is, and his existence is absolute. Secondly, God´s love is not part of him, it is an expression of who he is, in the same absolute way that he simply ´is´. We can talk about God´s love or God´s justice as being ´parts of him´, but that´s figurative language, it´s not using language used to describe something physical. He´s not made of lego, with parts than can be taken off and measured. Lastly you need to define what you mean by ´measure´. Love does not have physical dimensions. For instance, I can say ´I love my dog´, and, if you were curious, you might ask ok how much do you love your dog - so how would you measure that? Well, you can´t, because there isn´t a unit of measure for love, because love does not have properties that make it measurable, in the sense of defining its size or volume. You can however find out what the limits of that love are by testing the expression of it, you could ask me for example would you do this or that for your dog and so on, to get some idea of how far my willingness to do things for my dog can give you an impression of how my love for my dog is expressed and so what are the limits of my love for my dog. You could then say, if you wanted to use archaic language, that you ´have the measure´ of my love for my dog, i.e. that you have tested it and have some notion of how it is expressed, but you can´t really say in modern English that you have measured it if you want to be accurate about what you are saying. So, again if you want to pursue this argument you need to rethink your understanding of your subject and the terminology you´re using.
Work it out:

If this god actually exists, then you'd be stepping into more than one paradox, so how can he exist?

How I tell you, how.
 
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primarymay

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You might want to look into philosophical concepts like divine simplicity. Especially in the Neoplatonic tradition (which informed a lot of early Christian theology), monotheism was embraced because they didn't believe that the ultimate nature of reality could be a composite of parts. I can't find anything specifically on that issue, but you might find this more general article useful: Why Is There Anything At All? It’s Simple | Edward Feser
And here's another thing if Jesus was fully god and fully man, but god is infinite, how could his wholeness fit into the body and brain of a man.
 
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Tom 1

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And here's another thing if Jesus was fully god and fully man, but god is infinite, how could his wholeness fit into the body and brain of a man.

Hello again. Do you acknowledge that things spiritual and things physical both exist, and are fundamentally different in nature? Or do you have a different view, and if so, what is it?
 
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Tom 1

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I just did, look up, hells another paradox.

Not really. There’s a difference between a paradox and ‘I don’t have a full understanding of what this means’. Without understanding that difference then this post is doomed to go round in circles. Unmeasurable, eternal circles
 
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primarymay

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Hello again. Do you acknowledge that things spiritual and things physical both exist, and are fundamentally different in nature? Or do you have a different view, and if so, what is it?
I can say physical things exist, but I can't say spiritual things do. For argument sake I gave that reply, but there are so many spiritual beliefs. Who would know what's true or false, if you can't test spiritual subjects then your left with opinion only.
 
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Tom 1

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I can say physical things exist, but I can't say spiritual things do. For argument sake I gave that reply, but there are so many spiritual beliefs. Who would know what's true or false, if you can't test spiritual subjects then your left with opinion only.

Well I wouldn't entirely disagree with you there. At the end of the day, whatever a person chooses to believe, they've put their faith in something, whether that's an intellectual construct or whatever else it might be. The notion of absolute proof, proof in the sense of something demonstrable to our senses, for any answer to life, the universe and everything, is a pretty dodgy one. But, I do think it is important to be careful just how you form opinions, and in my experience a process of examining any question from different perspectives, rather than just picking one and sticking with it no matter what, can eventually lead you to things that are true, and that is where God is found.
 
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primarymay

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Well I wouldn't entirely disagree with you there. At the end of the day, whatever a person chooses to believe, they've put their faith in something, whether that's an intellectual construct or whatever else it might be. The notion of absolute proof, proof in the sense of something demonstrable to our senses, for any answer to the life, the universe and everything, is a pretty dodgy one. But, I do think it is important to be careful just how you form opinions, and in my experience a process of examining any question from different perspectives, rather than just picking one and sticking with it no matter what, can eventually lead you to things that are true, and that is where God is found.
Sure god can be found, if there is a creator, it can be found. But then I disagree with myself, it might not be found.

But it just so happens Christians have found god, and he is Jesus, what are the chances that the creator of this universe popped in to say hello to some monkey's. He also decided to come as a monkey, and die for all the monkeys out there.
 
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Tom 1

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Sure god can be found, if there is a creator, it can be found. But then I disagree with myself, it might not be found.

But it just so happens Christians have found god, and he is Jesus, what are the chances that the creator of this universe popped in to say hello to some monkey's. He also decided to come as a monkey, and die for all the monkeys out there.

Yes, it’s all a bit mad. Like Paul said, the gospel is ‘foolishness’ to the Greeks (and maybe by extension all gentiles), and he was a ‘fool’ for Christ. The notion that there is a God who cares so intensely about us seems crazy, it’s so far outside of the everyday experience of life. But, it’s a good question to start with - why? (Btw current evolution theory doesn’t teach that we are a type of monkey but that humans and apes have a common ancestor, a kind of proto-human/monkey creature)
 
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primarymay

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Yes, it’s all a bit mad. Like Paul said, the gospel is ‘foolishness’ to the Greeks (and maybe by extension all gentiles), and he was a ‘fool’ for Christ. The notion that there is a God who cares so intensely about us seems crazy, it’s so far outside of the everyday experience of life. But, it’s a good question to start with - why? (Btw current evolution theory doesn’t teach that we are a type of monkey but that humans and apes have a common ancestor, a kind of proto-human/monkey creature)
I'm sure god cares, but not to the degree that it needs to sacrifice itself for monkey half breeds.

I'm sure here god can reconcile his creation without a drop of blood.

Now that seems foolishness too, so am I correct?
 
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Tom 1

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I'm sure god cares, but not to the degree that it needs to sacrifice itself for monkey half breeds.

I'm sure here god can reconcile his creation without a drop of blood.

Now that seems foolishness too, so am I correct?

Haha my friend I think that you need to go back to some first principles with your arguments. The gospel isn’t true because it seems foolish, you won’t get yourself anywhere just plucking things out of the air like that. I’d suggest establishing in your own mind some thing or things you are sure of and work outwards from there.
 
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primarymay

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Haha my friend I think that you need to go back to some first principles with your arguments. The gospel isn’t true because it seems foolish, you won’t get yourself anywhere just plucking things out of the air like that. I’d suggest establishing in your own mind some thing or things you are sure of and work outwards from there.
I'm sure that the years I was a Christian failed me. That my experience as a Christian was such a maddening one, I choose the right to dismiss it now.
 
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