Caution! NOT for the weak in faith

PeaceB

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I haven't seen anyone here deny the power of the Holy Spirit, quite the opposite actually.

What I have seen is a clear recognition (and an echo of what Paul wrote) "in my flesh dwells no good thing." An acknowledgement that the "flesh" wars against the Spirit, and that our only hope for salvation is Christ Jesus.

God bless.
Keep reading through Romans 8.
 
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amariselle

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I couldn't agree more. So can you tell me why the hostility when I give a testimony?

I can only speak for myself, and I don't recall being "hostile". My apologies if I came across that way. Honestly, I have no way of knowing the personal depth of your testimony, my focus has been on the Gospel, our only hope of salvation in Jesus Christ.
 
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amariselle

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Keep reading through Romans 8.

I've read Romans, more than once. And I understand that Paul was writing to believers who were already saved.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I can only speak for myself, and I don't recall being "hostile". My apologies if I came across that way. Honestly, I have no way of knowing the personal depth of your testimony, my focus has been on the Gospel, our only hope of salvation in Jesus Christ.
No worries - you do not have to be hostile (and I don't believe you were at all hostile) to be called hostile by others. That is the nature of the old self in man[-kind] and is quite common in controversial threads. When a persons support system is shaky and 'threatened' by truth posted by anyone, they often consider that 'hostile' and get hostile themselves.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I've read Romans, more than once. And I understand that Paul was writing to believers who were already saved.

Is Romans 7:13-25 about Christians
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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How rude. These are the types of statements that people resort to when they have nothing of substance to add.


Show me some Biblical substance that supports purgatory or praying to Mary,pal
 
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amariselle

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No, that is not what James said. This is what James said:

4 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?​

Exactly

"you see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." As James also says, he will show his faith by his works. Why? Because how can anyone see the faith we have in our hearts if we don't live it out? However, Scripture is clear, our "good works" do not justify us to God, only Christ does so, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Amen.

Uh huh. But you must trust Jesus. That is a verb, no matter how many word games and other semantics you try to play in order to deny the obvious fact that there is a condition for you to be saved. If there were no conditions, then every person on the earth from the believer to the rank atheist would be saved.

We who have believed have entered into rest. We do not go about to establish our own righteousness.

These sins are more serious:

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

Yep, that about covers it. We are all guilty before God, and unless we are in Christ His wrath will remain on us.

And can you please stop with the "nobody takes sin seriously enough" nonsense? Jesus suffered and died because of our sins, and the sins that you and I commit are the reasons why Jesus suffered and died. I take that seriously, OK?

I never once said anything about you personally not taking sin seriously, now did I? What I said was that Jesus makes it absolutely clear how high God's standard is. There is no ranking system for sin in the Gospel. He who offends in one offends in all, and the wages of sin is death. All sin is mortal.

Oh, his standards are very high. And so is his mercy towards those who have faith in his son.

Exactly. And He is faithful to His promises, even when we are not. He will never leave us or forsake us.

I think that John wrote that, and that he was referring to what we call venial sin - sin that does not lead to death.

That's definitely a dichotomy of sin that the Catholic Church claims exists. Scripture is clear, all sin is "mortal."

Now, when St. Paul wrote

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22"​

he was also writing to a church of saved believers, now wasn't he?

Yep.

And who was he writing about when he wrote:

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.​

I believe we went over these verses some time ago. How and why were the Gentiles "grafted in"? Because of faith, or because of their works?

And who was the author referring to here:

26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

The "willful sin" is to reject Christ. He is the only sufficient sacrifice for sin, there is no other.

What do you think is meant by "trampling the Son of God underfoot" or "profaning the blood of the covenant"?

Could it be in ALL of these instances the author is writing about non-believers? Or is it that you are looking past the obvious fact that believers are included among the people that those verses are directed to, in order to twist the Bible into conforming to your theology of "Once Saved Always Saved"?

When we rightly divide the word of truth, we see there are no contradictions. Salvation is a gift, entirely unearned by us.

If I get a chance to speak at my day of judgment, I would like to say "For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on me." You seem to think that people will say "I did and did not do XYZ so I deserve to get in." That is ridiculous. Nobody believes that. And we have explained that to you numerous times. You are arguing against a straw man. It is disingenuous. Please stop it.

You may not believe that, but many do. Or do you think Jesus was making it up when He said that many will say "Lord", "Lord", and bring Him their "many wonderful works" done in His name?
 
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amariselle

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Is Romans 7:13-25 about Christians

Paul was writing about himself. Was he a Christian, a believer?

The answer to that should answer your question.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Paul was writing about himself. Was he a Christian, a believer?

The answer to that should answer your question.

Had he been a Pharisee? This was about the LAW. We are not under the law. Think again. Romans 7 was the end of his teaching on the law which had started in chapter 1, and chapter 8 introduces the Spirit. You are not the only one that believes this mistake. It is a dangerous teaching, making it seem we have no power as Christians. We do. I hope you all can find it.

Good night
 
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amariselle

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Had he been a Pharisee? This was about the LAW. We are not under the law. Think again. Romans 7 was the end of his teaching on the law which had started in chapter 1, and chapter 8 introduces the Spirit.

Romans 7 is Paul writing (under inspiration of the Holy Spirit) about the "new covenant" as now we are in Christ and no longer under the Law. Paul goes on to write regarding the "flesh" warring against the Spirit. An ongoing struggle.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. -Romans 7:24-25
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Exactly

"you see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." As James also says, he will show his faith by his works. Why? Because how can anyone see the faith we have in our hearts if we don't live it out? However, Scripture is clear, our "good works" do not justify us to God, only Christ does so, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.



We who have believed have entered into rest. We do not go about to establish our own righteousness.


Yep, that about covers it. We are all guilty before God, and unless we are in Christ His wrath will remain on us.



I never once said anything about you personally not taking sin seriously, now did I? What I said was that Jesus makes it absolutely clear how high God's standard is. There is no ranking system for sin in the Gospel. He who offends in one offends in all, and the wages of sin is death. All sin is mortal.



Exactly. And He is faithful to His promises, even when we are not. He will never leave us or forsake us.



That's definitely a dichotomy of sin that the Catholic Church claims exists. Scripture is clear, all sin is "mortal."



Yep.


I believe we went over these verses some time ago. How and why were the Gentiles "grafted in"? Because of faith, or because of their works?


The "willful sin" is to reject Christ. He is the only sufficient sacrifice for sin, there is no other.

What do you think is meant by "trampling the Son of God underfoot" or "profaning the blood of the covenant"?



When we rightly divide the word of truth, we see there are no contradictions. Salvation is a gift, entirely unearned by us.



You may not believe that, but many do. Or do you think Jesus was making it up when He said that many will say "Lord", "Lord", and bring Him their "many wonderful works" done in His name?


Satan has never had the need to chang tactics...Cain offered up his works. God rejected them. Nothing has changed. I am sure glad I have nothing to offer.....and KNOW it. I think I’ll go with Paul’s Gospel....after all , Paul said we would be judged by that Gospel.Jesus wants All the credit.i will gladly give it to Him.He shed His blood. Not me
 
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amariselle

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Pal? She's right; you are rude.

Perhaps you're not aware of just why he keeps saying "pal", (I'm not saying I agree with using that term). However, it is in reference to how PeaceB was addressing people in some replies.
 
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amariselle

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You are not the only one that believes this mistake. It is a dangerous teaching, making it seem we have no power as Christians. We do. I hope you all can find it.

Any and all "power" we have as Christians is in Christ. Greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world. And the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Good night

Good night.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Romans 7 is Paul writing (under inspiration of the Holy Spirit) about the "new covenant" as now we are in Christ and no longer under the Law. Paul goes on to write regarding the "flesh" warring against the Spirit. An ongoing struggle.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. -Romans 7:24-25

yes, Jesus is the end of the law, and the end of that chapter. Chapter 7 says nothing about the new covenant. The new covenant has to do with walking in the Spirit, which, again, is chapter 8.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Pal? She's right; you are rude.


Perhaps not rude enough....the demon-inspired doctrine of purgatory has sent many thousands to Hell.....why turn to Jesus if there exists the option to work off your sins in purgatory. I can see she is smart...please step back back and examine this craziness...forget your indoctrination for 5 minutes and see how this totally demolishes everything Paul taught
 
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1stcenturylady

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Any and all "power" we have as Christians is in Christ. Greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world. And the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.



Good night.

Right. We had no power being under the law. We couldn't be righteous, because it was kept in our own strength, and just knowing the law created a battle between our mind and our heart (Chapter 7). Now, through Christ's Spirit in us we finally have the power of God unto Salvation (Chapter 8). Well said.

Good night, again. LOL
 
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