No Sexual Ethic - Postmodernity's Chickens Come Home to Roost

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
So it´s not "everyone". I suggest you talk with them and ask them for their personal, individual ideas of "sexual ethics and conduct" - I´m sure many of them will be happy to explain them to you.


You would need to understand that "caring about sexual ethics" doesn´t mean agreeing with your personal sexual ethics, and not adopting your personal ethics doesn´t mean "not caring about" sexual ethics.
You would also need to understand that the fact that postmodernism doesn´t promote any particular sexual ethics won´t keep individuals from having (and possibly promoting) their personal, individual ideas about sexual ethics, conduct and appropriateness - just like you do.

Do you live in a society or just alone in the woods?
 
Upvote 0

Cearbhall

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2013
15,118
5,741
United States
✟122,284.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
I'm not mourning anything. I'm just saying that the secularists have failed to articulate an alternative sexual ethic. I'm also asking if there's been any credible attempt.
I would take this thread more seriously if you hadn't had to completely omit the concept of consent in order to make it work. I'm not sure why you think it was a good idea to pretend that it doesn't exist, but the absence of it is glaringly obvious and puzzling.
 
Upvote 0

Strathos

No one important
Dec 11, 2012
12,663
6,531
God's Earth
✟263,276.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
This is a somewhat unrelated tangent, but I've never understood the word 'post-modern'. Modern means the present, and post means after, so wouldn't 'post-modern' mean the future? But that's never how it's used.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajni
Upvote 0

Cearbhall

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2013
15,118
5,741
United States
✟122,284.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
This is a somewhat unrelated tangent, but I've never understood the word 'post-modern'. Modern means the present, and post means after, so wouldn't 'post-modern' mean the future? But that's never how it's used.
Relative to whatever has been labeled as modernism or the Modern Era within a certain discipline or aspect of society. Modernism in American literature is WWI-WWII, for example. Modernist sculpture starts around the turn of the 20th century. Or, relative to Modernism as a whole.

But yes, I agree, people use it colloquially and then it doesn't make much sense. In contexts such as this thread, it seems to mean "The rock-and-roll era of Satan."
 
Upvote 0

Hank77

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 26, 2015
26,368
15,457
✟1,099,338.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Just don't say that you don't care about sexual ethics and then demand people to resign because they've been sexually unethical.
Sexual assault and sexual harassment are crimes not just some made up changing ethics.
Assault and harassment have been crimes under common law for hundreds of years, especially assault. There have been many reasons that the sexual forms of these crimes have not been adequately addressed in the past and maybe now they will be.

The definition of assault varies by jurisdiction, but generally falls into one of these categories:

1. Intentionally putting another person in reasonable apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. Intent to cause physical injury is not required, and physical injury does not need to result. So defined in tort law and the criminal statutes of some states.

2. With the intent to cause physical injury, making another person reasonably apprehend an imminent harmful or offensive contact. Essentially, an attempted battery. So defined in the criminal statutes of some states.

3. With the intent to cause physical injury, actually causing such injury to another person. Essentially, the same as a battery. So defined in the criminal statutes of some states, and so understood in popular usage.

Harassment
(1) The use or threat of use of violence or other criminal means to harm the physical person, reputation, or property of any person.
(2) The use of obscene or profane language or language the natural consequence of which is to abuse the hearer or reader.

15 U.S. Code § 1692d - Harassment or abuse
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
I would take this thread more seriously if you hadn't had to completely omit the concept of consent in order to make it work. I'm not sure why you think it was a good idea to pretend that it doesn't exist, but the absence of it is glaringly obvious and puzzling.

I don't mean to eliminate the idea of consent from the Biblical sexual ethic. I see it as implied in the other principles.
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
This is a somewhat unrelated tangent, but I've never understood the word 'post-modern'. Modern means the present, and post means after, so wouldn't 'post-modern' mean the future? But that's never how it's used.

"Modernism" refers to enlightenment philosophy and the cultures it produced.
 
Upvote 0

Desk trauma

Front row at the dumpster fire of the republic
Supporter
Dec 1, 2011
20,193
16,172
✟1,173,411.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I don't mean to eliminate the idea of consent from the Biblical sexual ethic. I see it as implied in the other principles.
You don't have to eliminate it, in most cases its not there to start with.
 
Upvote 0

Waggles

Acts 2:38
Supporter
Feb 7, 2017
768
476
69
South Oz
Visit site
✟112,244.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Widowed
And yet Russia is experiencing a Christian revival wherein the State and
the Church are partners working together to protect Russia from the
moral depravity of the humanist liberal West.

Susanne.Posel-Headline.News_.Official-putin.atheist.blogger.russian.orthodox.church.free_.speech.religion.christianity_occupycorporatism.jpg
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Sarah G
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Cearbhall

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2013
15,118
5,741
United States
✟122,284.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
I don't mean to eliminate the idea of consent from the Biblical sexual ethic. I see it as implied in the other principles.
Then your argument that we're moving further and further away from it falls apart.
 
Upvote 0

Waggles

Acts 2:38
Supporter
Feb 7, 2017
768
476
69
South Oz
Visit site
✟112,244.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Widowed
And why do young people today think it is appropriate to sms (text)
inappropriate content photos of their nude selves to others?

Why is it Ok to sexualise very young children through dress and fashions
on sale for little girls?

Why are young people not counselled by psychologists in respect to gender
dysphoria and allowed to grow out of it? But instead are erroneously given
hormonal treatment and offered transgender surgery?
Young people have become victims to serve the sexual politics agendas of
the un-Godly who are out to destructure our society, and make it new
according to their image.

Why are children in homosexual "marriages" denied their fundamental human
rights [enshrined in the 1959 UN Declaration On The Rights Of The Child] to
know and be with both their natural biological parents?
Why are the rights of children to be with mothers and fathers denied to suit
the latest politically correct family craze?

Where there is no vision, the people cast off restraint; But he that keeps the law,
happy is he. Proverbs 29:18
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,796
✟247,431.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I'm struck by the affects of rejecting Scripture. When Scripture is rejected then the only thing that we have in order to call people to account is the law of the land. But there's not a lot of legislation on the books in America in regards to sexual morality. So, without the help of divine Revelation exerting its authority on the consciences of men, our society is forced to simply legislate sexual ethics more clearly.

In the secular world "legal" and "moral" will inevitably become synonymous.

You can follow scripture, correct?

Are you taken aback, because you expect everyone to have your same faith belief and feel people can't be moral if they don't believe as you do?
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
So it´s not "everyone". I suggest you talk with them and ask them for their personal, individual ideas of "sexual ethics and conduct" - I´m sure many of them will be happy to explain them to you.

"Everyone" is obviously hyperbole. You got me.

You would need to understand that "caring about sexual ethics" doesn´t mean agreeing with your personal sexual ethics, and not adopting your personal ethics doesn´t mean "not caring about" sexual ethics.
You would also need to understand that the fact that postmodernism doesn´t promote any particular sexual ethics won´t keep individuals from having (and possibly promoting) their personal, individual ideas about sexual ethics, conduct and appropriateness - just like you do.

I'm just saying that our culture (at least in my country) lacks a coherent, agreed upon sexual ethic from which to be outraged or to make other determinations about sexually moral behavior. We are certainly outraged when it comes to certain allegations and we're making judgments and determinations all the time, but it's unclear what the basis of these judgments is.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,475
18,455
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,426.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
This begs the question of if the Bible really presents a unified, detailed sexual ethic beyond "love your neighbor as yourself"?

ToL, I think recent events do show that Americans, despite not having your particular interpretation of what is Christian ethics ,do have a sense of sexual ethics and it is definitive. In this postmodern society, not everything is up for grabs. It's just now, women have a voice at the table and they get to put their word in about how they don't like men taking ownership of their bodies just because they are wealthy and powerful.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Cearbhall
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
This begs the question of if the Bible really presents a unified, detailed sexual ethic beyond "love your neighbor as yourself"?

The Bible certainly goes into greater detail concerning what it means to love.

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (1 Jn 5:2). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

ToL, I think recent events do show that Americans, despite not having your narrow interpretation ,do have a sense of sexual ethics and it is definitive.

They certainly have a sense of sexual ethics. Otherwise there would be no outrage. But is this ethic coherent? Could they articulate it? That is much more doubtful. Upon what is it based?
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,475
18,455
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,426.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
The Bible certainly goes into greater detail concerning what it means to love.

I'm not a conservative Reformed Christian, so of course I don't have such platonic notions. Ethics must be worked out in this nitty, gritty sinful wold of real people, with all their complexities. All I can offer them as a Christian is a foretaste of the world to come, physically present every sunday at my little church. That koinonia is part of the solution, no doubt.

What are you offering exactly? Another ideology, another big idea. The world has no shortage of those, and found them all wanting.

They certainly have a sense of sexual ethics. Otherwise there would be no outrage. But is this ethic coherent? Could they articulate it? That is much more doubtful. Upon what is it based?

I agree with what is said earlier, delve into real history and you will realize today's sexual ethic is much more coherent than any in the past, for the most part. Once you take the romantic blinders off.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Cearbhall

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2013
15,118
5,741
United States
✟122,284.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
I'm just saying that our culture (at least in my country) lacks a coherent, agreed upon sexual ethic from which to be outraged or to make other determinations about sexually moral behavior. We are certainly outraged when it comes to certain allegations and we're making judgments and determinations all the time, but it's unclear what the basis of these judgments is.
I'm in the same country as you are, as are most people in this thread, and most of the people I know are not at all confused that sane consent between adults is the basis of sexual ethics.
 
Upvote 0