Saint Peter says: Second Advent = Second Resurrection - All Other Theories Debunked

Quasar92

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The above assessment of your above views is in direct conflict with the teachings recorded in the Bible. Review the following for the chronological order of end time events:

The chronological order of end time events:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed. All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel. From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation. The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27.

Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948.

5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.

6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14.

7. Jesus will fight the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21. And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26...

8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end.
9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.

10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them..

11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church, all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9.

12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10.

13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled.

14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16.

15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever.


Quasar92


AMENDMENT TO POST #500:

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


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BABerean2

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AMENDMENT TO POST #500:

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


Quasar92

Ignore the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 and then maybe you can make the above work.

Ignore that Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36.

Ignore that Paul still referred to himself as an Israelite in Romans 11:1.

Ignore that James addressed his letter to "the twelve tribes..." in James chapter 1.

Do all of the above and maybe you can make the Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

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Quasar92

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Ignore the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 and then maybe you can make the above work.

Ignore that Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36.

Ignore that Paul still referred to himself as an Israelite in Romans 11:1.

Ignore that James addressed his letter to "the twelve tribes..." in James chapter 1.

Do all of the above and maybe you can make the Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

.


And you have ignored my post #501 you quoted. Let me see your proof for the ongoing false claims you keep making about what I allegedly ignore.

Your assumption the Church is Israel is a heresy and such teachings cannot be found in the Bible. Paul and James were Israelites AND believers in Jesus Christ, Making them members of His body, the Church. I am an Amjerican and a believer in Jesus Christ, making me a member of His bofy, the Church.

1. The Church consists of believers in Jesus Christ.

2. Israel as a nation are non-believers - until the day they accept Jesus as their Messiah, when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5, fulfilling the prophecy in Jer.31:31-32, of the New Covenant.

Got that?


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BABerean2

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Israel as a nation are non-believers - until the day they accept Jesus as their Messiah, when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5, fulfilling the prophecy in Jer.31:31-32, of the New Covenant.

Got that?

Notice the tense of the words "now" and "is" in the first verse below, written during the first century.

You will also find the exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 in the passage.

Based on the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25, nobody will be saved at His Second Coming.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine only works by ignoring the passage below.

Heb 8:6  But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 
Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 
Heb 8:8  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (Copied from Jeremiah 31)
Heb 8:9  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 
Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 
Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 
Heb 8:12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. 

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Quasar92

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Notice the tense of the words "now" and "is" in the first verse below, written during the first century.

You will also find the exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 in the passage.

Based on the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25, nobody will be saved at His Second Coming.

The Two Peoples of God doctrine only works by ignoring the passage below.

Heb 8:6  But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 
Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 
Heb 8:8  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (Copied from Jeremiah 31)
Heb 8:9  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 
Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 
Heb 8:11  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 
Heb 8:12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. 

.


FACTS PERTAINING TO THE FULFILLMENT OF THE NEW COVENANT:

While it has not been possible within the limits of this discussion to consider all aspects of the doctrine, certain important conclusions have been reached. The promises given to Israel in the form of a new covenant were found to remain unfulfilled to this hour. Any literal interpretation of the passages requires events and circumstances which are not a part of this age. Both the postmillennial and amillennial views were shown to depend upon spiritualizing the key words and important statements of the passage. Of the three views held by premillennialists, the view that the new covenant is exclusively and only for Israel was rejected. The use of the term new covenant in connection with the Lord’s Supper as celebrated by both Jews and Gentiles in the church was taken as evidence. Of the remaining views, the position that there are two new covenants, one for Israel to be fulfilled in the millennium and another for the church in this age, was found preferable. The sacrifice of Christ is the basis of any gracious covenant and remains the ground for fulfillment of God’s promised mercies both for the church and for the nation Israel.

For the complete article:

https://bible.org/seriespage/10-new-covenant-israel


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BABerean2

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FACTS PERTAINING TO THE FULFILLMENT OF THE NEW COVENANT:

While it has not been possible within the limits of this discussion to consider all aspects of the doctrine, certain important conclusions have been reached. The promises given to Israel in the form of a new covenant were found to remain unfulfilled to this hour. Any literal interpretation of the passages requires events and circumstances which are not a part of this age. Both the postmillennial and amillennial views were shown to depend upon spiritualizing the key words and important statements of the passage. Of the three views held by premillennialists, the view that the new covenant is exclusively and only for Israel was rejected. The use of the term new covenant in connection with the Lord’s Supper as celebrated by both Jews and Gentiles in the church was taken as evidence. Of the remaining views, the position that there are two new covenants, one for Israel to be fulfilled in the millennium and another for the church in this age, was found preferable. The sacrifice of Christ is the basis of any gracious covenant and remains the ground for fulfillment of God’s promised mercies both for the church and for the nation Israel.

For the complete article:

10. The New Covenant with Israel


Quasar92

Look at the statement below by Dr. Walvoord, which comes from the link in the post above.

"Dr. Allis has stated well the amillennial position, and has also himself indicated its fallacy, in the opinion of the writer, by begging the question. He states that the Hebrews passage “declares that this new covenant has been already introduced.”6 The passage states that a “better covenant” than the Mosaic covenant has been introduced (Heb 8:6), but it does not state here or anywhere else that this better covenant is identical with the “new covenant with the house of Israel,” or that the new covenant with Israel has been introduced. The argument of the passage does not hinge on this point at all, but rather on whether the Old Testament in any way anticipated an end to the Mosaic covenant. This the Old Testament does, but it does not follow that the new covenant of the Old Testament is identical with the better covenant of Hebrews."


Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH


Dr. Walvoord attempts to deny here that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the covenant referenced in Hebrews 8:6.

However, earlier in the article Walvoord made reference to the fact that this same text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found in Hebrews 8.

Here he is using double-talk to deny what he earlier admitted is the truth.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found filled during the first century by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

Walvoord is attempting to get rid of the text which destroys his Two Peoples of God doctrine.

I would be surprised that any serious student of the Bible would buy what he is attempting to sell, since the text from Jeremiah 31 is found two verses after Hebrews 8:6.


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Quasar92

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Look at the statement below by Dr. Walvoord.

"Dr. Allis has stated well the amillennial position, and has also himself indicated its fallacy, in the opinion of the writer, by begging the question. He states that the Hebrews passage “declares that this new covenant has been already introduced.”6 The passage states that a “better covenant” than the Mosaic covenant has been introduced (Heb 8:6), but it does not state here or anywhere else that this better covenant is identical with the “new covenant with the house of Israel,” or that the new covenant with Israel has been introduced. The argument of the passage does not hinge on this point at all, but rather on whether the Old Testament in any way anticipated an end to the Mosaic covenant. This the Old Testament does, but it does not follow that the new covenant of the Old Testament is identical with the better covenant of Hebrews."


Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH


Dr. Walvoord attempts to deny here that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the covenant referenced in Hebrews 8:6.

However, earlier in the article Walvoord made reference to the fact that this same text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found in Hebrews 8.

Here he is using double-talk to deny what he earlier admitted is the truth.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found filled during the first century by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

Walvoord is attempting to get rid of the text which destroys his Two Peoples of God doctrine.

I would be surprised that any serious student of the Bible would buy what he is attempting to sell, since the text from Jeremiah 31 is found two verses after Hebrews 8:6.


.


It is unfortunate the late Dr. John Walvoord, former President of Dallas Theological Seminary, is not here to personally rebuke the distorted assumptions made in the above post. As such, the following excerpt of His article from the link in post #505 providing the facts pertaining to the views he contributed:

"New Testament Teaching on the New Covenant with Israel

The Epistle to the Hebrews by its title is addressed to the Jewish people. The epistle is planned to show that Christ and Christian doctrine supersedes Moses and the Mosaic covenant. The argument in Hebrews eight proceeds on the revelation that Christ is mediator of a better covenant than Moses, established on better promises. At this point, the writer shows that the Mosaic covenant was never intended to be eternal (in contrast to other Jewish covenants) and that the Old Testament itself anticipated the day of its passing. To prove this point, the passage from Jeremiah on the new covenant is quoted (5

Dr. Allis has stated well the amillennial position, and has also himself indicated its fallacy, in the opinion of the writer, by begging the question. He states that the Hebrews passage “declares that this new covenant has been already introduced.”6 The passage states that a “better covenant” than the Mosaic covenant has been introduced (Heb 8:6), but it does not state here or anywhere else that this better covenant is identical with the “new covenant with the house of Israel,” or that the new covenant with Israel has been introduced. The argument of the passage does not hinge on this point at all, but rather on whether the Old Testament in any way anticipated an end to the Mosaic covenant. This the Old Testament does, but it does not follow that the new covenant of the Old Testament is identical with the better covenant of Hebrews.

There is no appeal at all to the content of the new covenant with Israel as being identical with the better covenant of which Hebrews speaks. The very absence of such an appeal is as strong as any argument from silence can be. It would have been a crushing blow to the opponents of the Christian order among the Jews to be faced with a quotation which described in detail the promises of God to the church. The writer instead merely refers to the word new and goes on to show in Hebrews nine how the Christian order superseded the sacraments of the Mosaic covenant.

Dr. Allis has, however, done premillennialism a service in demanding consistency on interpretation of this passage. Either the church fulfills the new covenant with Israel or it does not. While the writer has great respect for the Biblical scholarship of Dr. C. I. Scofield, he is inclined to agree with Dr. Allis that Scofield is not clear on this point in his Scofield Reference Bible. It is more consistent with the whole premillennial position to hold that the new covenant realized to-day by the church is different than the new covenant with the house of Israel than to hold that it fulfills it in part. The issue, after all, is whether the church inherits Israel’s promises. If it inherits any of them, the door is left open to the amillennial position. The proper doctrine is rather that while many of the blessings of the church are similar to those promised Israel, the promises to Israel remain intact to be fulfilled entirely by Israel. While the church may claim promises specified in the “new covenant” when it is not identified with Israel’s new covenant, it should remain on its own ground of blessing in Christ.

Another problem of interpretation may be mentioned, though Dr. Allis does not refer to it. In Hebrews 10:16, 17, a further reference is made to the new covenant with Israel. Here the argument is on the question of whether the sacrifice of Christ supersedes the sacrifices of the Mosaic covenant. Appeal is made to the new covenant with Israel in that it promises that sins will be forgiven and remembered no more. As in any sin-offering the sins are remembered, this would require a sacrifice once and for all, as provided in Christ. Again, it should be noted that there is no statement that the new covenant with Israel is identical with the new covenant for the church."


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precepts

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The OP and the poster's following posts are speaking of the following passage:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3:10-13

When this is carefully read, it becomes obvious that it most absolutely does not say what he claims it says.

He is making a very common error, that of interpreting what a person thinks is what a scripture means, and then claiming that is what it says. This is a serious error, and it keeps many people from ever being able to even begin to understand the scriptures.

A very great many scriptures explicitly say things that conclusively prove that what this poster says can not even possibly be correct.
Nonsense! Anyone that knows the scriptures knows the new heaven and new earth is at the 2nd resurrection, and that is exactly when Peter says the "2nd Coming" occurs. There's nothing to misinterpret.
 
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precepts

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The above assessment of your above views is in direct conflict with the teachings recorded in the Bible. Review the following for the chronological order of end time events:

The chronological order of end time events:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed. All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel. From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation. The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27.

Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948.

5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.

6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14.

7. Jesus will fight the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21. And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26...

8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end.
9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.

10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them..

11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church, all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9.

12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10.

13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled.

14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16.

15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever.


Quasar92
Au contraire, monsieur! You're the one contradicting Peter with your misinterpretation of the scriptures.
 
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Nonsense! Anyone that knows the scriptures knows the new heaven and new earth is at the 2nd resurrection, and that is exactly when Peter says the "2nd Coming" occurs. There's nothing to misinterpret.
Everyone who actually believes the scriptures, knows that the first and second resurrections are separated by by an earthly kingdom, that is said to last a thousand years. And the question of whether the thousand years is literal or figurative is immaterial. The scriptures very explicitly say that the 2nd resurrection comes a long time after the coming of Christ.

And very, very, many Old Testament passages describe this earthly kingdom in great detail.
 
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precepts

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Everyone who actually believes the scriptures, knows that the first and second resurrections are separated by by an earthly kingdom, that is said to last a thousand years. And the question of whether the thousand years is literal or figurative is immaterial. The scriptures very explicitly say that the 2nd resurrection comes a long time after the coming of Christ.
That is your misinterpretation that contradicts 2 Peter 3, because you refuse to accept the fact that the 1,000 years reign happened in heaven, where the old heavenly Jerusalem and temple are located.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


And we've been thru this already!
 
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That is your misinterpretation that contradicts 2 Peter 3 because you refuse to accept the fact that the 1,000 years reign happened in heaven, where the old heavenly Jerusalem and temple are located.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


And we've been thru this already!
Yes, we have been through this already, and I have already demonstrated the error of your interpretations. But for those than are new to this discussion:

Amillennialists argue that the use of the term “thousand years,” which occurs six times over in Revelation 20, is only a figurative expression for a very long time. In considering this claim we need to consider the scriptural uses of the term “thousand years.” In all of scripture it occurs only four times outside of Revelation 20.

The first place this occurs is Psalm 90:4, where we read, “For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.” In the Hebrew, the words here translated a thousand years are alph shnim, which translates literally as thousand-of years.

The second place where we find this term in the scriptures is Ecclesiastes 6:6, where we read, “even if he lives a thousand years twice.” In the Hebrew, the words here translated a thousand years twice are the same alph shnim, but with the added word phomim, which literally means two times.

The third and fourth places where we find this term in the scriptures both occur in 2 Peter 3:8, where we read, “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” In both of these cases, the Greek, words translated a thousand years are chilia ete, which literally translates as thousand years.

This is all the places where this term is used in the scriptures outside of Revelation 20. In each of these places it is obvious that, as the amillennialists argue, it is indeed simply a figurative expression for a very long time. But now we need to examine first ten verses of Revelation 20, where we read:

“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”

In this passage we find the same term we have been seeing, a thousand years, three times. This is used in verses 2, 4, and 6. In each of these cases we find exactly the same Greek words as in 2 Peter 3:8, chilia ete, which literally translates as thousand years.

The thing we notice is that in none of the passages we have examined so far did the Holy Spirit use any article whatsoever, whether definite or indefinite. Now anyone with even a smattering of knowledge of Hebrew and Greek knows that there is no significance in a lack of an article in either of these languages. This is because in both Hebrew and Greek, the use of an article is optional. So the translators were indeed correct in adding the indefinite article in each of these cases without putting it in italics, for it is implied, even though not stated.

But there is a different term also used in Revelation 20. In verses 3, 5, and 7 we find the words “the thousand years” as opposed to the term “a thousand years” we have been seeing. In each of these cases, the Greek words translated the thousand years are ta chilia ete, which literally translates as the thousand years. In each of these places, the Holy Spirit used the definite article. While there is no significance in the lack of an article in Greek, there is significance in the use of the definite article. When this is used, it is used for stress. It is used in regard to something particular. The clause “the thousand years” means a particular period of a thousand years, not just some thousand year period.

We have gone through this exercise to understand that there is a significant difference between the generic usage of the term “a thousand years,” as we see in Psalm 90:4, Ecclesiastes 6:6, and 2 Peter 3:8, and the specific use of the term “the thousand years” we see in Revelation 20. In the generic usage of the term “a thousand years,” it indeed simply means, as the amillennialists argue, “a long period of time.” But the repeated usage of the definite article in Revelation 20 makes it different there. This stresses that the reference is to a particular period of a thousand years.

The Holy Spirit told us six times in just six verses that this period would last a thousand years. Yet in spite of this, the amillennialists claim that He did not mean that this period would actually last a thousand years. They claim that we are in this period now.

But the Holy Spirit didn’t only tell us that this period would last a thousand years. He also very specifically said that during this period Satan would be shut up, and that a seal would be set on him, “so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.” To pretend that this is a description of the current condition is simply nonsense. Ephesians 2:2 calls Satan “the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience.” If he is now working in the children of disobedience, he is most certainly not at the present time “shut up” and sealed “so that he should deceive the nations no more.”

This brings to mind Hebrews 2:8, where we read, “‘You have put all things in subjection under his feet.’ For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.” Here we are specifically told of a coming state spoken of as if it were already in effect, but then we are specifically and explicitly told that this state has not yet come into effect.

But even if we did not have specific scripture that states that Satan is currently working, anyone with eyes can clearly see it. From the all pervasive sexual innuendo and the outright inappropriate contentography that we have to go out of our ways to avoid, to the outright persecution of believers that exists in most of the world today, and in almost all the world until the last few hundred years, Satan’s work is evident all around us. He is most certainly deceiving the nations at the present time.
 
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Jan001

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For some strange reason you read the word "water" into the verse above, instead of the word "spirit".

How many times is the word "water" found in John chapter 3 and how many times is the word "spirit" found in John chapter 3?

All false doctrines are built by ignoring certain verses.
Your view of salvation by water is an excellent example.


Did John the Baptist claim to bring people to salvation by water, or did he make it clear that Christ would baptize with something different?

Mar_1:8  I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.


John the Baptist did not say that some man would baptize with the Holy Ghost.
He said Christ would baptize with the Holy Ghost.


.

According to the oral teaching/preaching of the Apostles and the correct interpretation of their own Scriptures, the Baptism commanded by Jesus (Matthew 28:18-20) is what normally first gives us the Holy Spirit. (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38) The laying on of hands of the Bishops is what normally gives each of us a further outpouring of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 8:17-20)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. niv​

You keep trying to limit the Word of God to the Scriptures alone. This is not how Jesus (the Incarnate Word of God) set up His Church.

The Scriptures must be interpreted in agreement with the oral teachings of the Apostles which have been handed down for 2000 years within His Church which He personally founded. Jesus did not command His apostles to write a book, publish it, and give it to the people to interpret it for themselves and then determine their own doctrines. Instead, Jesus commanded His apostles to do the following":

Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” niv
Please note that there is no command for His Church's leaders to write the NT Scriptures and there is absolutely no command for people to interpret the Apostles' inspired Scriptures for themselves.

2 Peter 3:15-18
Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. niv

 
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BABerean2

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You keep trying to limit the Word of God to the Scriptures alone. This is not how Jesus (the Incarnate Word of God) set up His Church.

The Scriptures must be interpreted in agreement with the oral teachings of the Apostles which have been handed down for 2000 years within His Church which He personally founded. Jesus did not command His apostles to write a book, publish it, and give it to the people to interpret it for themselves and then determine their own doctrines.

You have got it right about limiting the Word to the scriptures alone.


Once we go outside of what is written in God's Word and rely on manmade traditions we are always in trouble.
The oral teachings must agree with the scripture, instead of vice versa.


When Bibles became available after the invention of the printing press it did not take long for many to see that the established Church was not being operated according to what was written in scripture.

Your salvation-by-water is one example of many.

The selling of indulgences is another.

The Bible is written in plain everyday language so that any person can read it in their own language and understand God's Plan of salvation through His Son.

I do not require another person to tell me what it says.

 
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precepts

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Yes, we have been through this already, and I have already demonstrated the error of your interpretations. But for those than are new to this discussion:

Amillennialists argue that the use of the term “thousand years,” which occurs six times over in Revelation 20, is only a figurative expression for a very long time. In considering this claim we need to consider the scriptural uses of the term “thousand years.” In all of scripture it occurs only four times outside of Revelation 20.

The first place this occurs is Psalm 90:4, where we read, “For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.” In the Hebrew, the words here translated a thousand years are alph shnim, which translates literally as thousand-of years.

The second place where we find this term in the scriptures is Ecclesiastes 6:6, where we read, “even if he lives a thousand years twice.” In the Hebrew, the words here translated a thousand years twice are the same alph shnim, but with the added word phomim, which literally means two times.

The third and fourth places where we find this term in the scriptures both occur in 2 Peter 3:8, where we read, “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” In both of these cases, the Greek, words translated a thousand years are chilia ete, which literally translates as thousand years.

This is all the places where this term is used in the scriptures outside of Revelation 20. In each of these places it is obvious that, as the amillennialists argue, it is indeed simply a figurative expression for a very long time. But now we need to examine first ten verses of Revelation 20, where we read:

“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”

In this passage we find the same term we have been seeing, a thousand years, three times. This is used in verses 2, 4, and 6. In each of these cases we find exactly the same Greek words as in 2 Peter 3:8, chilia ete, which literally translates as thousand years.

The thing we notice is that in none of the passages we have examined so far did the Holy Spirit use any article whatsoever, whether definite or indefinite. Now anyone with even a smattering of knowledge of Hebrew and Greek knows that there is no significance in a lack of an article in either of these languages. This is because in both Hebrew and Greek, the use of an article is optional. So the translators were indeed correct in adding the indefinite article in each of these cases without putting it in italics, for it is implied, even though not stated.

But there is a different term also used in Revelation 20. In verses 3, 5, and 7 we find the words “the thousand years” as opposed to the term “a thousand years” we have been seeing. In each of these cases, the Greek words translated the thousand years are ta chilia ete, which literally translates as the thousand years. In each of these places, the Holy Spirit used the definite article. While there is no significance in the lack of an article in Greek, there is significance in the use of the definite article. When this is used, it is used for stress. It is used in regard to something particular. The clause “the thousand years” means a particular period of a thousand years, not just some thousand year period.

We have gone through this exercise to understand that there is a significant difference between the generic usage of the term “a thousand years,” as we see in Psalm 90:4, Ecclesiastes 6:6, and 2 Peter 3:8, and the specific use of the term “the thousand years” we see in Revelation 20. In the generic usage of the term “a thousand years,” it indeed simply means, as the amillennialists argue, “a long period of time.” But the repeated usage of the definite article in Revelation 20 makes it different there. This stresses that the reference is to a particular period of a thousand years.

The Holy Spirit told us six times in just six verses that this period would last a thousand years. Yet in spite of this, the amillennialists claim that He did not mean that this period would actually last a thousand years. They claim that we are in this period now.

But the Holy Spirit didn’t only tell us that this period would last a thousand years. He also very specifically said that during this period Satan would be shut up, and that a seal would be set on him, “so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.” To pretend that this is a description of the current condition is simply nonsense. Ephesians 2:2 calls Satan “the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience.” If he is now working in the children of disobedience, he is most certainly not at the present time “shut up” and sealed “so that he should deceive the nations no more.”

This brings to mind Hebrews 2:8, where we read, “‘You have put all things in subjection under his feet.’ For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.” Here we are specifically told of a coming state spoken of as if it were already in effect, but then we are specifically and explicitly told that this state has not yet come into effect.

But even if we did not have specific scripture that states that Satan is currently working, anyone with eyes can clearly see it. From the all pervasive sexual innuendo and the outright inappropriate contentography that we have to go out of our ways to avoid, to the outright persecution of believers that exists in most of the world today, and in almost all the world until the last few hundred years, Satan’s work is evident all around us. He is most certainly deceiving the nations at the present time.
This is nonsense, no disrespect intended, because Peter says it clearly:

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness
.​
 
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Jan001

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You have got it right about limiting the Word to the scriptures alone.


Once we go outside of what is written in God's Word and rely on manmade traditions we are always in trouble.
The oral teachings must agree with the scripture, instead of vice versa.


When Bibles became available after the invention of the printing press it did not take long for many to see that the established Church was not being operated according to what was written in scripture.

Your salvation-by-water is one example of many.

The selling of indulgences is another.

The Bible is written in plain everyday language so that any person can read it in their own language and understand God's Plan of salvation through His Son.

I do not require another person to tell me what it says.


You and I disagree. :)
 
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BABerean2

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You and I disagree. :)

You and the Bible disagree.

The men you have placed your faith in have in the past sold indulgences.
This practice is not found in the Bible.
It is an example of placing one's faith in men, instead of scripture.


This is the 500th anniversary of the Reformation.

Our conversation is a fitting tribute to those men who were burned at the stake by the established church for uttering the words... "Sola Scriptura".

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Jan001

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You and the Bible disagree.

The men you have placed your faith in have in the past sold indulgences.
This practice is not found in the Bible.
It is an example of placing one's faith in men, instead of scripture.


This is the 500th anniversary of the Reformation.

Our conversation is a fitting tribute to those men who were burned at the stake by the established church for uttering the words... "Sola Scriptura".

.

FYI: Selling indulgences has never been approved by the Catholic Church's magisterium. Did some rogue Catholic prelates do this anyway? Perhaps. God will judge them, not me.

However, we do know for sure that Judas, one of the 12 men, personally chosen by Jesus the Son of God to serve His people after He returned to heaven actually betrayed Him instead of serving Him and His people. Does this make Christianity false because Judas, one of Jesus' chosen apostles, betrayed Him, the founder and builder of the Christian faith?

FYI: Sola Scriptura is not in the Scriptures. The following is in the Scriptures:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. niv​

FYI: Faith alone is not in the Scriptures. The following is in the Scriptures:


James 2:14-26
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. niv

It seems to me that instead of a reformation there was a rebellion by Luther and others against God and the NT Scriptures. The Word of God is what Jesus taught His apostles and also what these apostles and the disciples wrote in their inspired NT Scriptures. This is shown very clearly in Thessalonians 2:15.

James very clearly teaches that faith without (good) works is useless. Faith without (good) deeds is dead.
 
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BABerean2

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FYI: Sola Scriptura is not in the Scriptures.


Mat_4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mat_4:6  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat_4:7  Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Mat_4:10  Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.




Mar_7:13  Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

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