The truth about baptism

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Baptism in the Greek means submerge/dip. If your not buried under you’re not baptized. Acts 19King James Version (KJV)

19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

1A. It is by baptism in Jesus name that our sins are remitted/washed away/buried, because by the name of Jesus the blood of Jesus is applied to a person. (Matthew 26:28, Acts 2:38, Acts 10:43, 48, Acts 22:16(Paul when he believed Jesus as his savior was told he still had to go to Damascus to find out what he must do. Believing wasn’t enough. He got the Holy Ghost and then was told to be baptized in Jesus name for washing is his sins.), Revelation 1:5, Exodus 12:5-7, 13, 1Peter 1:18-19, Revelation 12:11, Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 1:14, Colossians 2:11-12. 1Corinthians 6:11) 2A. The Bible says we are saved by baptism. (1Peter 3:21) Water baptism in Jesus name is compared to Noah and the flood. The sin of the world in Noah’s day was washed away, while Noah was saved by the water, safe in the ark. Our sins are washed away, while we are saved by water baptism in Jesus name.ark is a type of the church. (i.e. One door – Jesus is the door.) We enter into the church by water and Spirit baptism. 2C. Water baptism in Jesus name is an essential part of obedience to the gospel. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. (1Corinthians 15:1-4, Romans 6:1-23.) We must obey the gospel in order to be saved. (2Thessalonians 1:8, 1Peter 4:17, Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the LORD ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. Romans 10:16.) Obeying/ living the gospel is by repentance and water baptism in Jesus name, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, which follows Jesus’ death (crucifixion), burial, and resurrection. . .1(Romans 6:1-4,, Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Acts 2:38.). 2D. Historical evidence of baptism In Jesus name ;

BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA

11TH edition, Vol 3, Pg 365-366

The baptismal formula was changed from the name of JESUS CHRIST to the words Father, Son, & Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in the second century.

________________________________________

BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA

Vol 3, Pg 82

Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.

________________________________________

CANNEY ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION

Pg 53

The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the 2nd century.

________________________________________

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

Vol 2, Pg 263

Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church.

________________________________________

HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA

OF RELIGION

Vol 2, Pg 377

Christian baptism was administered using the words “In the name of Jesus”.

.

________________________________________



________________________________________

HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION

Vol 2, Pg 377 on ACTS 2:38

NAME was an ancient synonym for “person”. Payment was always made in the name of some person referring ownership. Therefore one being baptized in Jesus Name became his personal property. “Ye are Christ’s.”

________________________________________



ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS

(1951), II, 384, 389

The formula used was ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ’ or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name… The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion….in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands. ….

________________________________________

INTERPRETERS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE

(1962) I, 351

The evidence … suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, nut ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus’.

________________________________________

A HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN THOUGHT (Otto Heick)

(1965), I, 53

At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the : Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

________________________________________

HASTINGS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE

(1898), I, 241

[] the original form of words was ‘into the name of Jesus Christ’. .

________________________________________


THE NEW SCHAFF-HERZOG ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE

(1957), I, 435

The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus …, which still occurs even in the second and third centuries.

________________________________________

CANNEY’S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS

(1970), Pg 53

Persons were baptized at first ‘in the name of Jesus Christ’ … or ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus.’… Afterwards, they were baptized ‘in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

________________________________________

ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA

(1899), I, 473

It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times ‘in the name of Jesus Christ,’ or in that ‘of the Lord Jesus.’ This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single – not triple, as was the later creed.

________________________________________

ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA

11TH edition, (1910), Vol 2, Pg 365

Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the new Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so wide spread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid.


2E. Historic evidence of baptism washing away sins.

“‘I have heard, sir,’ said I, ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’” (The Shepherd 4:3:1 to 2 [A.D. 80]).


Ignatius of Antioch


“Let none of you turn deserter. Let your baptism be your armor; your faith, your helmet; your love, your spear; your patient endurance, your panoply” (Letter to Polycarp 6 [A.D. 110]).


Second Clement


“For, if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; but if otherwise, then nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment, if we should disobey his commandments. . . . With what confidence shall we, if we keep not our baptism pure and undefiled, enter into the kingdom of God? Or who shall be our advocate, unless we be found having holy and righteous works?’ (Second Clement 6:7 to 9 [A.D. 150]). Clement of Alexandria


“When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons. Adopted as sons, we are made perfect. Made perfect, we become immortal . . . ‘and sons of the Most High’ [Psalms 82:6]. This work is variously called grace, illumination, perfection, and washing. It is a washing by which we are cleansed of sins, a gift of grace by which the punishments due our sins are remitted, an illumination by which we behold that holy light of salvation” (The Instructor of Children 1:6:26:1 [A.D. 190]).

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Been a while since I posted been busy but yeah this is just a bunch of evidence I have on the subject not all of it though but the main portion explaining baptism if you disagree with something let me know and why God bless

 

[Tinker Grey]

Yeah. Wrong forum.

Don't you think it might not belong in a Christians Only forum ... something with theology or doctrine in the title?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Yeah. Wrong forum.

Don't you think it might not belong in a Christians Only forum ... something with theology or doctrine in the title?

do you know which forum it would go? I couldn’t find one that was non niche creed where I could put it that made sense so just placed here

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT


I am going to move it to Controversial Christian Theology.

 

[Radagast]

Baptism in the Greek means submerge/buried.

Well, no, it doesn't mean that at all. It's derived from the verb baptō, to dip.

With regards to symbolism, baptism is connected to (1) burial and to (2) washing.

And yes, this is the wrong place.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Well, no, it doesn't mean that at all. It's derived from the verb baptō, to dip.

With regards to symbolism, baptism is connected to (1) burial and to (2) washing.

And yes, this is the wrong place.

To dip/ be submerged is the same thing as buried lol I mean someone is going under the water is the point don’t make this more difficult then it has to be and then what’s the right place?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Also A moderator just moved the forum so nvm about it being in the wrong place

 

[FreeinChrist]

I can edit the title for you if you wish.

 

[eleos1954]

Been a while since I posted been busy but yeah this is just a bunch of evidence I have on the subject not all of it though but the main portion explaining baptism if you disagree with something let me know and why God bless

Acts 2

38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.


Galations 3

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Colossians 2

12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

John 3

23 John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and people were coming and were being baptized

Matthew 3

13 Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. 14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” 15 But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted Him. 16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Acts 2

38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.


Galations 3

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Colossians 2

12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

John 3

23 John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and people were coming and were being baptized

Matthew 3

13 Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. 14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” 15 But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted Him. 16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

Good scriptures on baptism here amen

 

[ViaCrucis]

Christian Baptism connotes burial with Christ; but the word itself has nothing to do with burial.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Christian Baptism connotes burial with Christ; but the word itself has nothing to do with burial.

-CryptoLutheran

Dip/submerge is the equivalent of being buried though that’s why I used burial to describe it. Also as you pointed out it connotes buried with Christ. I would like you all to analyze the content a bit further though rather then word choice tbh. I will change the word choice though to describe the Greek I’ll just put the official definition dip/sub though sense it seems to be bothering quite a few people.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I can edit the title for you if you wish.

Yes please

 

[FreeinChrist]

changed!

 

[SBC]

Baptism in the Greek means submerge/dip. If your not buried under you’re not baptized.

First - all natural born men, are men with body's of the earth's element, called dust.
Secondly - all natural born men are born in SIN, and commit sin- BECAUSE- they -
DO NOT Know God, Love God, believe in God, worship God,
thus spiritually, all natural born men ARE born in Standing Against God ~
And those in Standing Against God ~ thou they be physically alive ~ are spiritually DEAD to God ~ Spiritually Separated from God.

( John the Baptist has special circumstances, as do children, without the ability to reason, and not part of this conversation)

Secondly - nothing natural can be QUICKENED ( ie made SPIRITUALLY ALIVE), until it has BECOME "DEAD".

This may seem like a conundrum ~ the alive are dead, and must become dead before they become alive? Yes.

The "natural" are born alive - and are dead to God - IN THEIR NATURAL STATE.
The "natural" who are alive - are who MUST VOLUNTARILY choose to become SPIRITUALLY DEAD, BEFORE they can BE MADE, Spiritually ALIVE.

The DEAD, are commonly KNOWN to be buried, and that is precisely what we do with DEAD body's. The Greeks, you reference are correct - but there is a lack of understanding. The death and burial is not physical, it's spiritual.

The physical natural BODY does not become DEAD and buried.
A living man - is being spiritually made DEAD, BY a Spiritual God, yet though the mans physical body remains living.

God has provided His Word, since the beginning, for men to hear, believe, trust, or reject.

Men do not baptize - God Does the Works "within" any man who confess, Belief in Him.
God receives their body given Him, in death to Him, Forgives their disbelief, God cleanses them, sanctifies them, anoints them, gives them Faith, restores their soul, gives them a new heart, gives them His Seed, gives them a new spirit, gives them HIS indwelling Spirit, seals them unto Him forever.

THIS is Gods Baptism - which is God preparing the man, making the man WHOLE, and wholly acceptable to BE with God and God with the man forever.

When a man at ANY TIME calls on the Lords NAME.....who can call on the Lords Name that does not BELIEVE in the Lord?

The Lord KNOWS, what every mans heart believes, and He rejects NONE that believe in Him.

It matters not if a man is dipped in water, goes to Church, is educated, is wealthy, is famous, is stuffed with food...or not.....IF any man calls on the Lord from the thoughts in his heart.....HE IS SAVED unto the Lord forever.....and the Lord Himself does the Baptizing.

When men in a Church go to an alter call, and call on the Lords Name, and confess their belief.....Gods forgiveness and internal changes are effected RIGHT THEN. ( not a week later when a water baptism "ceremony" is "scheduled" ) <--- THAT is for the Church's written certification, and official written record, of them "joining of that Church", before the witnesses, ie the other members of "that" Church.

An unsaved person lying in the woods all alone with a mortal injury, with his last breath, can call on the Lord, and confess belief, (which only requires TWO witnesses), and between the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and the man, the witness requirement is met....and such a man SHALL BE SAVED, and receive ALL the internal changes as ANY man who has lived his whole life as a SAVED man.

The thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus said nine words to Jesus - BEGINNING by calling on His Name ~ ie Lord.

The man was not water baptized...yet was saved by the Power of the Spirit Baptizing the man with His Spirit.

Luke 23
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Mark 5: 25 and forward -

A woman with great belief, just though to touch Jesus clothing would help her - and she was made WHOLE, (by touching His clothes? ), no, by her genuine belief in Him.

Again, no water baptism.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

First - all natural born men, are men with body's of the earth's element, called dust.
Secondly - all natural born men are born in SIN, and commit sin- BECAUSE- they -
DO NOT Know God, Love God, believe in God, worship God,
thus spiritually, all natural born men ARE born in Standing Against God ~
And those in Standing Against God ~ thou they be physically alive ~ are spiritually DEAD to God ~ Spiritually Separated from God.

( John the Baptist has special circumstances, as do children, without the ability to reason, and not part of this conversation)

Secondly - nothing natural can be QUICKENED ( ie made SPIRITUALLY ALIVE), until it has BECOME "DEAD".

This may seem like a conundrum ~ the alive are dead, and must become dead before they become alive? Yes.

The "natural" are born alive - and are dead to God - IN THEIR NATURAL STATE.
The "natural" who are alive - are who MUST VOLUNTARILY choose to become SPIRITUALLY DEAD, BEFORE they can BE MADE, Spiritually ALIVE.

The DEAD, are commonly KNOWN to be buried, and that is precisely what we do with DEAD body's. The Greeks, you reference are correct - but there is a lack of understanding. The death and burial is not physical, it's spiritual.

The physical natural BODY does not become DEAD and buried.
A living man - is being spiritually made DEAD, BY a Spiritual God, yet though the mans physical body remains living.

God has provided His Word, since the beginning, for men to hear, believe, trust, or reject.

Men do not baptize - God Does the Works "within" any man who confess, Belief in Him.
God receives their body given Him, in death to Him, Forgives their disbelief, God cleanses them, sanctifies them, anoints them, gives them Faith, restores their soul, gives them a new heart, gives them His Seed, gives them a new spirit, gives them HIS indwelling Spirit, seals them unto Him forever.

THIS is Gods Baptism - which is God preparing the man, making the man WHOLE, and wholly acceptable to BE with God and God with the man forever.

When a man at ANY TIME calls on the Lords NAME.....who can call on the Lords Name that does not BELIEVE in the Lord?

The Lord KNOWS, what every mans heart believes, and He rejects NONE that believe in Him.

It matters not if a man is dipped in water, goes to Church, is educated, is wealthy, is famous, is stuffed with food...or not.....IF any man calls on the Lord from the thoughts in his heart.....HE IS SAVED unto the Lord forever.....and the Lord Himself does the Baptizing.

When men in a Church go to an alter call, and call on the Lords Name, and confess their belief.....Gods forgiveness and internal changes are effected RIGHT THEN. ( not a week later when a water baptism "ceremony" is "scheduled" ) <--- THAT is for the Church's written certification, and official written record, of them "joining of that Church", before the witnesses, ie the other members of "that" Church.

An unsaved person lying in the woods all alone with a mortal injury, with his last breath, can call on the Lord, and confess belief, (which only requires TWO witnesses), and between the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and the man, the witness requirement is met....and such a man SHALL BE SAVED, and receive ALL the internal changes as ANY man who has lived his whole life as a SAVED man.

The thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus said nine words to Jesus - BEGINNING by calling on His Name ~ ie Lord.

The man was not water baptized...yet was saved by the Power of the Spirit Baptizing the man with His Spirit.

Luke 23
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Mark 5: 25 and forward -

A woman with great belief, just though to touch Jesus clothing would help her - and she was made WHOLE, (by touching His clothes? ), no, by her genuine belief in Him.

Again, no water baptism.

God Bless,
SBC

All the scriptures you posted are pre the church and pre the resurrection of Christ. Once the grace period or 6th despation of time starts all we see is Baptism my friend.
1Peter 3:21, acts 2:38, acts 10, acts
Acts 22:16 whre Paul when he believed Jesus as his savior was told he still had to go to Damascus to find out what he must do. Believing wasn’t enough. He got the Holy Ghost and then was told to be baptized in Jesus name for washing is his sins.), Colossians 1:14, Romans 6:1-4 etc.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

First - all natural born men, are men with body's of the earth's element, called dust.
Secondly - all natural born men are born in SIN, and commit sin- BECAUSE- they -
DO NOT Know God, Love God, believe in God, worship God,
thus spiritually, all natural born men ARE born in Standing Against God ~
And those in Standing Against God ~ thou they be physically alive ~ are spiritually DEAD to God ~ Spiritually Separated from God.

( John the Baptist has special circumstances, as do children, without the ability to reason, and not part of this conversation)

Secondly - nothing natural can be QUICKENED ( ie made SPIRITUALLY ALIVE), until it has BECOME "DEAD".

This may seem like a conundrum ~ the alive are dead, and must become dead before they become alive? Yes.

The "natural" are born alive - and are dead to God - IN THEIR NATURAL STATE.
The "natural" who are alive - are who MUST VOLUNTARILY choose to become SPIRITUALLY DEAD, BEFORE they can BE MADE, Spiritually ALIVE.

The DEAD, are commonly KNOWN to be buried, and that is precisely what we do with DEAD body's. The Greeks, you reference are correct - but there is a lack of understanding. The death and burial is not physical, it's spiritual.

The physical natural BODY does not become DEAD and buried.
A living man - is being spiritually made DEAD, BY a Spiritual God, yet though the mans physical body remains living.

God has provided His Word, since the beginning, for men to hear, believe, trust, or reject.

Men do not baptize - God Does the Works "within" any man who confess, Belief in Him.
God receives their body given Him, in death to Him, Forgives their disbelief, God cleanses them, sanctifies them, anoints them, gives them Faith, restores their soul, gives them a new heart, gives them His Seed, gives them a new spirit, gives them HIS indwelling Spirit, seals them unto Him forever.

THIS is Gods Baptism - which is God preparing the man, making the man WHOLE, and wholly acceptable to BE with God and God with the man forever.

When a man at ANY TIME calls on the Lords NAME.....who can call on the Lords Name that does not BELIEVE in the Lord?

The Lord KNOWS, what every mans heart believes, and He rejects NONE that believe in Him.

It matters not if a man is dipped in water, goes to Church, is educated, is wealthy, is famous, is stuffed with food...or not.....IF any man calls on the Lord from the thoughts in his heart.....HE IS SAVED unto the Lord forever.....and the Lord Himself does the Baptizing.

When men in a Church go to an alter call, and call on the Lords Name, and confess their belief.....Gods forgiveness and internal changes are effected RIGHT THEN. ( not a week later when a water baptism "ceremony" is "scheduled" ) <--- THAT is for the Church's written certification, and official written record, of them "joining of that Church", before the witnesses, ie the other members of "that" Church.

An unsaved person lying in the woods all alone with a mortal injury, with his last breath, can call on the Lord, and confess belief, (which only requires TWO witnesses), and between the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and the man, the witness requirement is met....and such a man SHALL BE SAVED, and receive ALL the internal changes as ANY man who has lived his whole life as a SAVED man.

The thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus said nine words to Jesus - BEGINNING by calling on His Name ~ ie Lord.

The man was not water baptized...yet was saved by the Power of the Spirit Baptizing the man with His Spirit.

Luke 23
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Mark 5: 25 and forward -

A woman with great belief, just though to touch Jesus clothing would help her - and she was made WHOLE, (by touching His clothes? ), no, by her genuine belief in Him.

Again, no water baptism.

God Bless,
SBC

Also the Bible says one must believe and be baptized not just believe. But lastly the word believe itself stems from the Greek word pisteou which means to act on what you believe. In acts 2 the Jews believed Peters gospel... but how come they got baptized and got the Holy Ghost after if believing is just enough? How come in acts 19... another example of baptism being essential they were asked have they gotten the Holy Ghost since they believed if confessing is just enough? Clearly post Christ ressurextion it’s not. Believing in a God is a step in the right direction but it’s not enough... as the Bible puts it the devils believe... so I mean are they saved too?

 

[amariselle]

In other words, Jesus plus something we do?

How is this different than the situation Paul spoke against where Jews were telling Gentile believers they must be circumcised?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

In other words, Jesus plus something we do?

How is this different than the situation Paul spoke against where Jews were telling Gentile believers they must be circumcised?

baprism circumcises the heart that’s the difference. Clenses from sin. Idk if I understood your question correctly but I’d so yeah that’s answer