Church of Sweden to formally stop referring to God as "he"

[Vicomte13]

.
JOHN.14: =
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. ...

25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

JOHN.15: =
26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Yes, by this device - a grammatical error - the author clearly conveys that the the Spirit of Truth, the Helper, the Holy Spirit to which he is referring, is/are of masculine gender. That may or may not apply to all of the spirits of God, of which we are informed of at least Seven.

 

[Vicomte13]

Resist the devil and she will flee from you!

If the Devil were a she, that is most certainly not true! Then it would be: "Resist the devil, and she will nag you."

 

[fat wee robin]

It brings to mind the question of if a tree falls in the forest, would anybody hear?
Does anyone in Sweden actually know that there is a Church of Sweden?

 

[discipler7]

When Jesus was on earth, that was true.
He himself taught that God is Spirit.

.
JOHN.4:24 says that God is Spirit, which just means that God is invisible and Omni-present on earth. Since He is everywhere, we should worship God in spirit and in truth, ie God is not just present in the Holy Temple of Jerusalem or on the Samarian mountain and worshipped at those places only.

Quoting God is Spirit has no bearing on the OP = "Church of Sweden to stop referring to God as 'he' or 'Lord'"

1JOHN.1:5 says God is light. 1JOHN.4:8 says God is love. God is light or love or Spirit has little relation to how God looks like on His heavenly throne, ie looks like a man or like a woman.

 

[fat wee robin]

Did I not already answer that in my previous post.? Ie, "GENESIS.2 says that God created the 1st woman, Eve, out of one of Adam's rib and likely in Adam's image."
.
1CORINTHIANS.2:11 and PROVERBS.20:27 also say that man is spirit.
... After we die, what do we become.?
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No, this is a related subject, as per 1COR.11:7 = "7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man."
... The Word of God did not say that a woman is the image and glory of God.

No not ina Adam's image ,but in God's image . God created Eve and the feminine ,not Adam .You are saying that man can create like God can .That is heresy . It simply means that God made the masculine active principle first, and from the active principle comes the receptive principle .
If you look closely you will see that there is a balance there . Adam has both types of genes ,but Eve produces the off spring , creative harmony .

I am sorry that you seem to have a dislike of women , but maybe if men had behaved as God intended them to women would be better too?

 

[ViaCrucis]

.
how God looks like on His heavenly throne, ie looks like a man or like a woman.

God doesn't look like anything. Because God is God.

"Then the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of words, but saw no form; there was only a voice." - Deuteronomy 4:12

"To whom will you liken Me and make Me equal, and compare Me, that we may be alike? Those who lavish gold from the purse, and weigh out silver in the scales, hire a goldsmith, and he makes it into a god; then they fall down and worship! They lift it to their shoulders, they carry it, they set it in its place, and it stands there; it cannot move from its place. If one cries to it, it does not answer or save him from his trouble. Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me," - Isaiah 46:5-9

"No one has ever seen God; God, the only-begotten, who is at the Father's side, He has made him known." - John 1:18

"It is He alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see; to Him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen." - 1 Timothy 6:16

God has no form, He is invisible, immortal, immutable; there is nothing like Him, nothing to compare Him to or with.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[The Times]

Wow. Much of that is paganism.

Please people do discern and understand that much of paganism and the antithesis religions are solely derived from Satan being portrayed as the devine male and the devine female.

This is called the sacred femanine in the occult circles and labelling God as a sacred femanine, is an occult practice and is the very means by which all the antithesis religions blaspheme the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel.

Lucifer was used as reference to Goddess worship as it secretly meant Venus - the morning star.

Venus traces a perfect pentacle across the ecliptic sky every eight years. So astonished were the ancients to observe this phenomenon that Venus and her pentacle became symbols of perfection, beauty and the cyclic qualities of sexual love. As a tribute to the magic of Venus, the Greeks used her eight year cycle to organise their Olympic games.

So let me answer you and others.....

Guess who is back in black?

Lucifer aka Satan.

This completes the identity, even during John's time, the synagogue of Satan, those Gnostic Churches who practiced the devine femanine. Which is why John would say......

15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

The counterfeit antithesis and Antichristos religion to Christianity is Gnosticism, which has its roots in elevating the devine femanine and this is why Lucifer as the Antichrist will manifest as the devine female and show the world to a path of literal apostasy and destruction, through his mark, that is his Androgenous Luciferean autocratic society.

Though Gnosticism is seen hostile to the feminine, it is the old idea of Yin and Yang concept of teratgram occult practice of the antithesis religions.

This is a good read.....why world religions personify evil, the very personhood of Lucifer aka Satan as the devine female.....

Satan and The Devil in World Religions

We need to quickly discern The Times that we are living in, otherwise all will be lost and the Church leaders will be blamed and held accountable for leading the flock to slaughter.

 

[Aldebaran]

God doesn't look like anything. Because God is God.

"Then the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of words, but saw no form; there was only a voice." - Deuteronomy 4:12

"To whom will you liken Me and make Me equal, and compare Me, that we may be alike? Those who lavish gold from the purse, and weigh out silver in the scales, hire a goldsmith, and he makes it into a god; then they fall down and worship! They lift it to their shoulders, they carry it, they set it in its place, and it stands there; it cannot move from its place. If one cries to it, it does not answer or save him from his trouble. Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me," - Isaiah 46:5-9

"No one has ever seen God; God, the only-begotten, who is at the Father's side, He has made him known." - John 1:18

"It is He alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see; to Him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen." - 1 Timothy 6:16

God has no form, He is invisible, immortal, immutable; there is nothing like Him, nothing to compare Him to or with.

-CryptoLutheran

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Man was created in the image of God, and woman was created from Man.

Genesis 2:22
The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.

 

[Sistrin]

Some of it. However since it's all taken out of context, it's hard to know how much is paganism and how much is attempting to get people to see God as having both male and female aspects.

I disagree in this regard, paganism isn't hard to spot. The video references the fact a High Priestess of Isis was scheduled to lead meditations. A modern Priestess of Isis with the photo caption quoted below:

"A modern priestess of Isis enters the temple at Isis Oasis."

From the Osiris Ministries, quote:

"#5…I Affirm that All Life is Sacred… May we see all life, humans, animals, birds, reptiles, insects, plants and trees as sacred, for indeed if we see all as a gift of Mother Earth than surely all is sacred. Treat all living things that are in our world as if they were a wonderful…"

Why would the Lutheran Church want to mess with this crap?

Subsequently the fact the conference featured a shaman is noted. A Shaman is defined as:

"a person regarded as having access to, and influence in, the world of good and evil spirits, especially among some peoples of northern Asia and North America. Typically such people enter a trance state during a ritual, and practice divination and healing."

Seriously, are you guys so afraid of being called a name or thought of as medieval you will quiver in the corner while this stuff infiltrates and destroys your church? I guess as long as the wine and cheese keep flowing...

The only overtly pagan example was from a conference that seems to have been interfaith. So having non-Christians speakers would be expected.

There is a significant difference between a non-Christian and a pagan. Here is what I know. If the pastor at my church said he had invited a Wiccan to speak next Sunday morning in order to provide an alternative viewpoint, it would be time to find another church.

For Christianity there is no compromise to be made with pagan beliefs, as inherent within all pagan beliefs is the destruction of Christianity. I won't go into detail but it is true for a short period of my life I attended a Lutheran church. What I learned is the membership tends to be overly populated by those who also embrace liberal political ideology. Which means many of them were far more concerned with not offending anyone as opposed to defending their religious beliefs. Even now I continue to have reason to associate with members of the Lutheran Church. I read their writings, a couple of people in particular, and continue to be convinced their religions beliefs are malleable, directly tied to and influenced by political concerns.

I won't link to this because it would expose the individual involved, but from a ELCA membership Twitter feed, quote:

"In this new age of Trump, many people of color are losing hope for an America that values diversity — and them."

Followed by a sixty year old photo of the KKK walking in the streets of Washington, D.C.

And this, from another skull full of mush in regard to who God loves, quote:

"Or Muslim people. Or Native people. Or immigrating people. Or women people. Or press people. Or people with disabilities. Or..."

As if Christianity teaches something different about God's love. This is followed by the ultimate in liberal hysteria, a quote from the Lutheran pastor who runs this account:

"75 years ago a presidential order upheld by the Supreme Court sent Japanese citizens to internment camps. #remember #never again."

Who exactly does this moron believe is in danger of being sent to internment camps? But hey, politics over faith.

If what the creator of the video says is occurring within the ELCA is occurring, and looking at his sources I find no reason to doubt him, then the Lutheran church is destroying itself by following the standard tactic of embracing evil because they are too afraid of offending it.

It was also at "herchurch," which we already know is on the fringe of the ELCA.

I had to look up "herchurch," but the instant I saw it was located in San Francisco I really didn't need to look any farther. However, from their statement of purpose page, quote, bold highlight theirs:

"At herchurch, we create a sacred space for those who wish to worship at the cutting edge and the leading edge of the traditional “religious/spiritual” frameworks. We are fortunate to have pagans, non-theists, yogis, spiritual seekers of all sorts as well as Christians, Jews, Muslims, and life-long Lutherans as members of our faith/spiritual community."

"Our purple church is home to a diversity of spiritual traditions and perspectives that are woven together to create a strong, stretchy, fabric that offers everyone ample room to grow."

Diversity...the most holy of holy words in the church of liberalism. You guys are doomed.

Of course there's equally weird and disturbing stuff on the edge of conservative Christianity.

Yeah? Like what?

Some of which we've seen in this discussion, like the idea that women aren't in the image of God.

Who here said that?

 

[fat wee robin]

Yes, but now read it correctly.
In Deuteronomy, God is referring to the Law - the Torah, of which Deuteronomy is the final piece. The entire Bible, all that would come later, is not the Torah, and most of what remains in the Old Testament is not God speaking directly. No more law is given by God in the Old Testament. Do not add to the Law is what God said in Deuteronomy, not "do not add to the Bible". The Bible and the Law are not at all synonymous. It is adding to the Bible to state they are.

The admonition to add nothing nor subtract anything from this scroll, in Revelation, is a direct reference to THAT scroll - Revelation - which John was told to take up and write. It does not in any sense apply to the rest of the Bible, which was not compiled until the 300s AD.

As to the admonition in Proverbs - absolutely so, but what are the words of God? The words of the Law, the rTorah, the words that God spoke. Solomon's proverb there is not words spoken by God, but by Solomon (et al). To call them "God's words" when they are Solomon's words is to add to the words of God. All of the LAW in Scripture came out of God's mouth. Jesus told the Devil that man lived on every word "that proceeds forth out of the mouth of God" - a lengthy and rather convoluted expression. The Bible always identifies the words that God spoke himself. It is THOSE words that Jesus referred to, specifically - the words that proceeded forth out of the mouth of God - that Jesus referred to.

The Torah is all law that came directly out of God's mouth. Jesus' words are recorded in quadruplicate.

THOSE are the words that God spoke, that can't be added to. To take the whole Bible and claim that God spoke all of that is not true. The Bible itself makes a very clean and clear distinction of what God said. And the Bible says - in those passages you quoted - to focus on what God said. To take, for example, what Jude said in his letter about Enoch and claim that Jude's words were spoken by God is to mash a bunch of words that God did not speak with what he did speak - and to break the commandment. Jesus gave commandments. If he wasn't really God, then what he did was blasphemous. That's why he was killed: the Sanhedrin did not believe he was divine.

The tradition of holding up the entire Bible and pretending that God spoke all of that is in violent conflict with these very passages warning people not to do that. It is a stubborn tradition, and one that we will not be ending today. Nevertheless, no: God did not speak out the whole Bible. Nor did he arrange the Bible, deciding what was in and what was out. Men did that. IN the Bible, what God said is recorded, mostly in the Torah, a few of the prophets, the Gospels and Revelation. The rest of the Bible is not what God said. It's what men said about God, and that does not have the same authority.
To say that it does is to add massively to the words of God.

This is something which is badly needing explained ,and it is well done . However the protestant bible for example, does not contain Solomons words ,ecclesiastus ,at all.

 

[RaymondG]

Can you explain this believe to us? Scripture please

How about this one....."God is not a man".........that he should lie?

 

[The Times]

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

Jesus regarded the Holy Place the temple of the Holy Ghost. So this multi-prophesy has an end of days definite article, leading to a complete capitulation of the congregation, that is the sabbath symbolising the Church itself. The captitualtion of the Church in the end of days, has other conditions tied to it, they are......

Great Tribulation for the true believer who remains faithful to the Word of God.

An urgent call to leave everything behind and to cut your loses.

Days of slaughter where humanity will become endangered as a species.

Many christs or should I say manifestation of the Satan as the sacred femanine.

An age of deception like no other seen or faced historically speaking.

Many false shepherdS who have infiltrated the churches to lead the flock astray and to their destruction.

Six points need to converge to usher in the new dawn of Lucifer as the abomination that maketh desolate replacing the Holy Ghost, in the hearts and minds of people. Take the cross away as the daily sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins and take the Holy Ghost away, you have the abomination standing in the Holy place of a new recreated species of the TEMPLE OF THEOLA.

The synagogue of Satan.

 

[hedrick]

I disagree in this regard, paganism isn't hard to spot. The video references the fact a High Priestess of Isis was scheduled to lead meditations.

This is borderline. It apparently wasn't at a Christian worship service, but an interfaith conference. We already know that this particular Lutheran congregation is an outlier. I can't imagine our congregation being involved in that particular event. But I don't think it's right to imply that it's showing the downfall of the ELCA.

Who here said that?

In 89 (Church of Sweden to formally stop referring to God as "he"), 99 (Church of Sweden to formally stop referring to God as "he") and following postings you'll see a claim that man is made in the image of God and woman in his image. In a later posting you'll see claim that man has full human genetics and woman has only half
"Only the males carry within them the whole gene pool , whereas women only carry that of the mother . This is because God made Adam like Himself , and from him made a help mate .We cannot change this even if we want to ,as the C. of Sweden and transgender etc would like ."

 

[Strong in Him]

Quoting God is Spirit has no bearing on the OP = "Church of Sweden to stop referring to God as 'he' or 'Lord'"

Yes it does. Spirit is spirit; invisible, not in the form of human, animal or vegetable, and has no gender.
What is it that makes a human being look a male or female? (Clue; think anatomy). God is not a human being so does not have those physical characteristics.

God is spirit. If you want to assign a gender to God, look at his nature and try to work it out.
God IS love, is creative, is logical, has mercy, shows compassion, is faithful, is strong and a rock, is a God of order, is a shelter, provides for his children, gives spiritual birth and nurtures his children.
Are those male or female qualities? Both? Well how about that!

 

[Rescued One]

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Man was created in the image of God, and woman was created from Man.

Genesis 2:22
The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.

The image is NOT physical.

 

[The Times]

Many churches who follow suite in the ecumenical movement, will lead the flock to the TEMPLE OF THEOLA.....

The Antichristos Theolalite trinity symbol is 666, the mark of the beast.

Ecumenism is leading church leaders to the rebirth of Gnosticism and they are now neck deep in the deception of the ages.

What will Jesus do to the unfaithful shepherds, after what they have done to his Church.

Are you ready to die for your Lord or have they recreated you in the image of the beast and have become the Temple of THEOLA.

 

[redleghunter]

The problem at the heart of this is that pneuma is neuter, but John has used a masculine pronoun, which is grammatically incorrect. So, either John has made a grammatical error - which is possible - or John is breaking the rules of grammar to make a point that the Spirit of Truth, to whom he refers here (note please, this text does not say "The Holy Spirit", but "The Spirit of Truth", which may or may not be the same spirit - there are many spirits of God, not just one. This one is taking a masculine pronoun where it shouldn't. That tells us something.

The same thing happens in Genesis 1. "Elohiym" - Powers - is a plural noun in Hebrew, and takes a plural verb. But when referring to God, it takes a masculine single verb. So, "God" is plural, but a He, the very first time that God appears as a separate word in the Bible.

And the Spirit of God - the one hovering over the face of the waters in Genesis - is a singular "she" the first time she appears.

So this argument cuts several ways. It cuts FOR a plural/single God (support for the inner plurality of the Trinity, though not perforce the number three (although the pictographs actually DO cut for the number three in Genesis 1:1), John's Greek cuts FOR a masculine "Spirit of Truth" in John 16:13. And it cuts FOR a feminine "Spirit of God" - the Ruach Elohiym that hovers over the face of the waters.

Given that in Genesis 1 we have already seen the Hebrew author break the grammatical rules to use the singular pronoun for "Gods" or "Powers" we cannot make that argument and then turn around a sentence later and disregard the "she" for Ruach Elohiym, not if we're honest anyway.

(You will note that the way I go about these things is not to find the version of the language that favors a position that I "want" to be so - I just recount what it says. In truth, I don't care, myself, what God's gender is, so it doesn't offend me either way. It DOES offend me when somebody starts screaming that it's a HERESY to identify the Holy Spirit is a "she" - because it's actually biblical. Ruach Elohiym is "the spirit of God" and that's a she. The Spirit of Truth, that's a he. There are seven spirits of God burning before God's throne, so to assert that the "Holy Spirit" is ONE is itself a traditional assertion, not actually a Scriptural one. And once again, I am indifferent to the facts of it - don't care what the real answer is. But I am not indifferent to Christians who assert things affirmatively without authority and who weaponize argument with words like "heresy". THOSE people are jackasses who need to be thrown off their horses, and I look for the contradictions in Scripture to force them down - dare they contradict Scripture itself? On what authority? Their own. Which is nothing.)

We know from the complete passage this is the Person of the Holy Spirit. As He is referred to as the Advocate.

Don't think there was an error on the beloved apostles part. He could not fill the neuter with "it" and applied He.

 

[The Times]

.

 

[Vicomte13]

We know from the complete passage this is the Person of the Holy Spirit. As He is referred to as the Advocate.

Don't think there was an error on the beloved apostles part. He could not fill the neuter with "it" and applied He.

It is a grammatical error. You can't use "he" where "it" is required, just as in French, if your house is named "Harvey", it's still "une maison" and its pronoun is "she". So if you're using "he", because your house is named Harvey, you're deliberately making a point by making an obvious grammatical error.

In a similar vein, a spirit in Greek is an "it", not a he. If you're calling it a he, you're deliberately making a grammatical error to make a point.

The same is true of the plural word "God" in Hebrew taking a masculine singular verb. It can't do that grammatically, it's an error, and it stands out as such. So if you doing it, you're making a point that THIS god is something particular and different.

It's like using "ain't" in formal writing. If you do it, you're doing it to make a strong point.

 

[Noxot]

the feminine is that which comes out of the masculine and so to call God a he makes sense even though it does not mean it is the fullness of the truth. it does mean that this one truth is true.

God is infinite. i'm sure there is more to learn.

I see feminine and masculine as an infinity symbol ∞. they keep giving birth to one another and both need one another because they are not really separated in God. masculine and feminine are as different as divine love and divine wisdom are.

God is a he because as he interacts with us the feminine component of him is revealed in us as his Word takes root in us.