Questions From a Protestant

[~Anastasia~]

There is a campus ministry organization - OCF.

http://www.ocf.net/

I haven't had any dealings with them but heard of some of the things they have done. I'm not sure but I wonder if they might have resources or information that could help you?

All I do know is that college-age students are often interested in finding things for themselves, and an investigation into Church history often brings a person to an interest in Orthodoxy. Even if you don't know anyone, it seems to me that if you have Christian students (and statistically there should be some), then whether they become Orthodox or not, I can imagine some would be interested in learning.

Maybe OCF has information or resources to let that start happening? I wish I knew more. This is actually an interest if mine, but I don't know much about these kinds of ministries yet.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you so much, I just emailed the Father there, I'm honestly not having an issue calling people by titles like Father...probably because the military ranking system of TSA. Titles have always been something to respect for me but I've heard some Protestants don't like it.

Some are afraid because they've been told it's a problem Biblically. They will cite the admonition to "call no man Father" ... but Paul himself calls himself Timothy's father. And there are other points by which we know what that admonition doesn't mean. But I think they are all sincere and don't wish to offend God. They just don't know the whole context.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There is a campus ministry organization - OCF.

http://www.ocf.net/

I haven't had any dealings with them but heard of some of the things they have done. I'm not sure but I wonder if they might have resources or information that could help you?

All I do know is that college-age students are often interested in finding things for themselves, and an investigation into Church history often brings a person to an interest in Orthodoxy. Even if you don't know anyone, it seems to me that if you have Christian students (and statistically there should be some), then whether they become Orthodox or not, I can imagine some would be interested in learning.

Maybe OCF has information or resources to let that start happening? I wish I knew more. This is actually an interest if mine, but I don't know much about these kinds of ministries yet.

OCF is great too since you don't have to have one at your college to go to OCF events, you just need to be college age (18-25)

 

[Kajiki]

Ya know maybe I could get a group of Christians together that also wish to find the apostolic church and join it. I’m sure I could find such people here…there’s about 3000 students on campus alone.


And I was honestly worried that the accapella music of Orthodoxy would bore me compared to the brass band music im accustomed to. Until I found this epic hymn. I’m listening to it on repeat. It’s so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noetoc2W4Pc

 

[☦Marius☦]

West Virginia (my home state) has a surprising growth of Orthodoxy. If you get a chance you should visit Hermitage of the Holy Cross. Beautiful little monastery.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Also once you go down the rabbit hole of listening to Orthodox chants there is no turning back. If you have spotify I could give you a HUGE list of recommendations. Here are a few on youtube though:

^ my favorite. Watch all the way through

Jesus's Crucifixion and Yield of Spirit

Megaloschemos II (Bulgarian Orthodox Hymn)

Our Father

Also to answer your question I would not recommend going to a different kind of Church. Buy some icons, a prayer book and ask Christ to lead you to a church. But avoid heresy like the plague.

 

[GoingByzantine]

Ya know maybe I could get a group of Christians together that also wish to find the apostolic church and join it. I’m sure I could find such people here…there’s about 3000 students on campus alone.


And I was honestly worried that the accapella music of Orthodoxy would bore me compared to the brass band music im accustomed to. Until I found this epic hymn. I’m listening to it on repeat. It’s so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noetoc2W4Pc

If you need more hymns, the Orthodox Church has a radio network called Ancient Faith Radio that streams music 24/7 (they also have talk programs and podcasts you can listen to):

Radio | Ancient Faith Ministries

 

[☦Marius☦]

 

[☦Marius☦]

Last one

Great rendition of cherubic hymn

 

[GoingByzantine]

The Proclamation of Anathemas is not one that I hear very often, I think I have heard it on the Sunday of Orthodoxy...I know I have heard it somewhere.

This Russian version certainly sounds very foreboding. Kind of weird that the video uses a Catholic Statue of Mary as an example of an Orthodox Image.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Apparently that isn't the Theotokos but another Catholic saint from what I have seen on the original video.

Also I think if there is one thing Orthodox and Catholics can come together on, it is protestant's love to disrespect all Holy art and all things beautiful about the apostolic faiths.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Ya know maybe I could get a group of Christians together that also wish to find the apostolic church and join it. I’m sure I could find such people here…there’s about 3000 students on campus alone.


And I was honestly worried that the accapella music of Orthodoxy would bore me compared to the brass band music im accustomed to. Until I found this epic hymn. I’m listening to it on repeat. It’s so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noetoc2W4Pc

We sing this during memorial services.

There is so, so, SO much wonderful Orthodox singing and chanting. It's difficult for me to choose a favorite between the sung music (often joined by the congregation) - and chanted music, either by a well-trained male chanter or a group of monks. Then again, I've heard beautiful chanting from women's monasteries too.

The Liturgy literally flies past for me, even if I get there early and it lasts for a few hours. Mostly due to the singing and chanting. And even though our parish does mostly the same hymns in the same style frequently. It never gets boring, or hasn't yet at least, in several years. Glory to God!

 

[Kajiki]

My Orthodox Study Bible came in. I didn’t realize it was actually nkjv (a version I do like a lot). I was wondering if you guys would mind reading a would-be-sermon had I written enough from a few weeks ago. The pastor at the church I go to wanted me to do one and so I did what I could. What do you guys think as Orthodox Christians? My apologies for the length...

This is gonna age me. Many of us have heard or even said this phrase on many different occasions. Well this sermon is going to age me to quite possibly younger than I actually am. As some of you already know I am a fan of the Power Ranger tv show. I go as far as watching the episodes on Netflix late at night and buying the toys. Something about these spandex wearing superhero fighting forces just gets me so excited. Watching these teams fight alongside each other to save the day is always cool. Well before I go any further with this I would like you all to think on the verse: Romans chapter 12 verse 2.

2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:2

Every Power Ranger team is given a set of morphers. These morphers are an external source or device such as a phone, a belt, or even a watch. This external source appears to immediately make an external change in appearance when the rangers use them. However, that’s not entirely true. That external change is preceded by the internal change that makes the rangers faster, stronger, and sometimes smarter. This set up is actually very similar to us as Christians. We have an external source in God and the scriptures which were inspired by Him. This external source is what allows for the renewing of our minds, or the internal change. Romans 12:2 isn’t saying that we have to go at this alone. That we have to or even can renew our minds on our own power. In fact in Matthew 20:29-34 we hear this.

29As Jesus and his disciples were leaving Jericho, a large crowd followed him. 30Two blind men were sitting by the roadside, and when they heard that Jesus was going by, they shouted, "LORD, Son of David, have mercy on us!" 31The crowd rebuked them and told them to be quiet, but they shouted all the louder, "LORD, Son of David, have mercy on us!" 32Jesus stopped and called them. "What do you want me to do for you?" he asked. 33"LORD," they answered, "we want our sight." 34Jesus had compassion on them and touched their eyes. Immediately they received their sight and followed him. Matthew 20: 29-34

These two men didn’t simply will their eyesight into existence and Jesus didn’t simply make their eyes appear to work to other people. No. Jesus made an internal change within them which allowed them to see. This being an external result. Now let’s stay in the book of Matthew but go back a few chapter to chapter 5. Verses 14 through 16 reads.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Matthew 5:14-16

By accepting the external source and allowing it to create an internal change we can produce the external change that others will see in hopes of them glorifying our Father in heaven. See, this light of the world is not created by us ourselves. We are simply supposed to reflect the light like how the moon reflects the sun we are to reflect the Son. And in order to do this we must renew our minds and we can’t do that with our own power we need that external source that is the Holy Spirit. To recap, we need to accept that external source so that we may do as Romans 12:2 tells us to do so that we can be what Matthew 5:14-16 calls us to be. I have one last question for you all, Are you ready? Because It’s Morphin’ Time.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Theologically I don't see any issues really. Someone else might point something out. The only think I would say is we believe those external forces you talk about are also the Church and the Holy Mysteries, as well as Church Tradition (which includes the Scripture), and Prayer.

As for your sermon as an ex Baptist who has preached before if you want my opinion tone it down a bit on the comedy. I don't know if its your first time preaching or not, but many people including myself have a tenancy to copy experienced pastor's styles when writing our own sermons. It can come off as very fake. For such a short sermon I would say stick to the points and be genuine. I once gave a very long sermon that many people came up to me afterwards saying I sounded completely fake. It was because I was taking up the style of an old pastor I had previously had and I guess people caught on.
If you feel that you are being genuine then go for it, I just felt from reading it that it was a little bit forced.
Good luck

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes, I had meant to reply, but I thought others might have more insight.

I do want to comment that I like you including the fact that Jesus didn't just make their eyes seem to work to others, but authentically changed them. It's a good point, if an unexpected context. Maybe that makes it all the more attention-getting.

Otherwise, all I can say is about the same, that it doesn't set off any theological red flags. It just isn't what I'd expect to hear from an Orthodox teacher, but that may be a matter of style. Honestly, they tend to dive deep and deliver a major teaching in 10-15 minutes, but that may well be because the sermon/homily isn't the main focus of the Divine Liturgy like it tends to be in Protestant denominations. Lord forgive me, but I can barely manage to sit through a 45-90 minute sermon that only delivers a basic surface understanding. I know some pastors can deliver a full teaching/study in that time, and I don't mean them. I similarly love Orthodox podcasts and Bible studies that go on for an hour or two.

Yours seems short enough for your topic though. I'm not meaning you. But there is usually pressure to stretch things out. And as aLuke mentioned, it is really the whole of living the life of faith we would expect to hear about. Prayer, the Eucharist, the Scriptures, being part of community, all of course with the grace of God.


I'd be careful too about the style as aLuke mentioned. If what you've written is your genuine style, that's fine. But I'm not used to seeing those mannerisms included in writing, so it gives the impression you might be trying to adopt something foreign to you. And if that's the case, people will probably realize. I would say in all things - be your real self. Always. That will help put across your sincerity in your message.

On the other hand, I don't like speaking in front of groups. If I had to plan such a thing, I'd probably be tempted to include my mannerisms to keep myself on track. I can speak well in front of groups, but only if it just wells up from deep conviction. Thankfully I'm not a preacher, lol.

I hope it goes well for you.

 

[Kajiki]

Theologically I don't see any issues really. Someone else might point something out. The only think I would say is we believe those external forces you talk about are also the Church and the Holy Mysteries, as well as Church Tradition (which includes the Scripture), and Prayer.

As for your sermon as an ex Baptist who has preached before if you want my opinion tone it down a bit on the comedy. I don't know if its your first time preaching or not, but many people including myself have a tenancy to copy experienced pastor's styles when writing our own sermons. It can come off as very fake. For such a short sermon I would say stick to the points and be genuine. I once gave a very long sermon that many people came up to me afterwards saying I sounded completely fake. It was because I was taking up the style of an old pastor I had previously had and I guess people caught on.
If you feel that you are being genuine then go for it, I just felt from reading it that it was a little bit forced.
Good luck

Yes, I had meant to reply, but I thought others might have more insight.

I do want to comment that I like you including the fact that Jesus didn't just make their eyes seem to work to others, but authentically changed them. It's a good point, if an unexpected context. Maybe that makes it all the more attention-getting.

Otherwise, all I can say is about the same, that it doesn't set off any theological red flags. It just isn't what I'd expect to hear from an Orthodox teacher, but that may be a matter of style. Honestly, they tend to dive deep and deliver a major teaching in 10-15 minutes, but that may well be because the sermon/homily isn't the main focus of the Divine Liturgy like it tends to be in Protestant denominations. Lord forgive me, but I can barely manage to sit through a 45-90 minute sermon that only delivers a basic surface understanding. I know some pastors can deliver a full teaching/study in that time, and I don't mean them. I similarly love Orthodox podcasts and Bible studies that go on for an hour or two.

Yours seems short enough for your topic though. I'm not meaning you. But there is usually pressure to stretch things out. And as aLuke mentioned, it is really the whole of living the life of faith we would expect to hear about. Prayer, the Eucharist, the Scriptures, being part of community, all of course with the grace of God.


I'd be careful too about the style as aLuke mentioned. If what you've written is your genuine style, that's fine. But I'm not used to seeing those mannerisms included in writing, so it gives the impression you might be trying to adopt something foreign to you. And if that's the case, people will probably realize. I would say in all things - be your real self. Always. That will help put across your sincerity in your message.

On the other hand, I don't like speaking in front of groups. If I had to plan such a thing, I'd probably be tempted to include my mannerisms to keep myself on track. I can speak well in front of groups, but only if it just wells up from deep conviction. Thankfully I'm not a preacher, lol.

I hope it goes well for you.

For better or worse this is my general writing style for papers. With my current questioning of TSA as a church however this will probably never see the light of day.

I know what you mean Anastasia. In the Southern Baptist Church I used to go to we sometimes had two hour long lecture sermons...

 

[~Anastasia~]

Its not length that bothers me, though there would never be a 2-hour teaching in the middle of a Divine Liturgy. But I enjoy 1-1/2 hour podcasts, some 2-hour or longer teaching segments, and our catechesis used to be 1-1/2 hour sessions. When it's worthy of the time spent, I want it to go on. But I don't like when a preacher spends an hour dragging out what could have been adequately said in a minute. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it, as it's rarely that bad - I just know there is frequently pressure to draw things out, so I was commenting rather generally.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the way you wrote. And if that's the way you speak, it's also fine. Forgive me, I can't actually know you from online posts, but reading it just gave me the impression that it could be an attempt to create a style which a person wanted to adopt, to be delivered by speaking - especially by a person nervous about speaking. I could see myself trying to do that at one time, is probably why I got that impression. I think I misunderstood the purpose of your writing though. Please forgive me. I'm glad you corrected my misunderstanding.

As I said, I do really like the point you made about Jesus really healing them. There's a good point inside that, and not one often made.

God be with you.

 

[Abel Gkiouzelis]

I have always gone to church. In fact, if my baby book is to be believed when I left the hospital a week after I was born my first destination was not home but instead was a Salvation Army Corps (Church) in West Virginia. So it’s safe for me to say I was born into the Protestant Church. I was raised mostly in TSA but also, on my Step-Mother’s side, I went to a Southern Baptist church every other Sunday while in Elementary School and every Sunday in Middle School. My parents would often times however go Church Hopping but only to Protestant Churches. Many Baptist churches as that’s what my step mother was raised as. I also went to a Wesleyan church and a non denominational church. Right now I’m a Soldier (member) in the Salvation Army. I have felt a call towards ministry and for a while I was being supported…the past year however its been slowing down until Labor Day where it halted entirely. I’ve chosen to rekindle my Faith by actively researching the Early Church and read the Acts of the Apostles. All of this including my prayers have led me to look into Eastern Orthodoxy. I do however, question some things.

1. How important is joy in an Orthodox service?(I believe Joy only comes from God and happiness is simply an emotion that can come from many sources)

2. Is there biblical evidence in support of Icons?

3. Do musical instruments have any place in Orthodox Christianity? (TSA places our brass bands on an esteemed level and I even play the snare drum. I love marching hymns.)

Thank you for reading and God Bless!

Hi my dear Kajiki! I wish you always have the smile of God in your heart! I'm praying for you! God loves you so much!

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1. Christ is joy!

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2. In the Holy Bible, Cherubim are Angels. Icons (images) of Angels.
(What are cherubim? Are cherubs angels?)

Exodus 26:31 > “Make a curtain of blue, purple and scarlet yarn and finely twisted linen, with cherubim woven into it by a skilled worker.

* * *​

Exodus 25:17-21 > 17 “Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. 18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. 21 Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law that I will give you.

* * *​

Hebrews 9:5 > Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.

* * *​

Acts 5:15 >As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by.

Peter's shadow is an icon (image) of Apostle Peter.

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3. The Orthodox Church traditionally does not use any instruments in the liturgy, instead relying entirely on choral music and chanting. Essentially all the words of Orthodox services, except sermons and such, are either chanted or sung by readers and choirs and when... Read more

Also:

Actually, the tradition of the Orthodox Church is to have no musical instruments in the church. This is not unique to the OCA (Orthodox Church in America), as you experienced during your trip to Greece and Mt. Athos. The appearance of organs in Orthodox churches is, to my knowledge, pretty much limited to Greek and a few Antiochian Orthodox parishes in the US. I have never heard of organs or other musical instruments used elsewhere. Hence, the use of organs in some churches in the US is an... Read more

 

[Abel Gkiouzelis]

I have always gone to church. In fact, if my baby book is to be believed when I left the hospital a week after I was born my first destination was not home but instead was a Salvation Army Corps (Church) in West Virginia. So it’s safe for me to say I was born into the Protestant Church. I was raised mostly in TSA but also, on my Step-Mother’s side, I went to a Southern Baptist church every other Sunday while in Elementary School and every Sunday in Middle School. My parents would often times however go Church Hopping but only to Protestant Churches. Many Baptist churches as that’s what my step mother was raised as. I also went to a Wesleyan church and a non denominational church. Right now I’m a Soldier (member) in the Salvation Army. I have felt a call towards ministry and for a while I was being supported…the past year however its been slowing down until Labor Day where it halted entirely. I’ve chosen to rekindle my Faith by actively researching the Early Church and read the Acts of the Apostles. All of this including my prayers have led me to look into Eastern Orthodoxy. I do however, question some things.

1. How important is joy in an Orthodox service?(I believe Joy only comes from God and happiness is simply an emotion that can come from many sources)

2. Is there biblical evidence in support of Icons?

3. Do musical instruments have any place in Orthodox Christianity? (TSA places our brass bands on an esteemed level and I even play the snare drum. I love marching hymns.)

Thank you for reading and God Bless!

Something more about Icons:

Icons are used to bring the worshippers into the presence of those who are in heaven, that is, Christ, the Saints, the Theotokos (=Holy Virgin Mary Mother of God) and the angels. The Orthodox believe these icons do more than visually remind the viewer of the fact that there are saints in heaven, they believe that these icons act as ‘windows’ into heaven through which we see those saints, Christ and the Theotokos. It is for this reason that God the father is traditionally not represented in icons because He has never shown His form to man and therefore man should not try to represent His form in icons. It is because of the connection which these sacred pictures have with their subjects that Orthodox Christians regularly venerate (but do not worship) them even as Orthodox still living on earth greet one another with a kiss of peace, so do they venerate those who have passed on through their icons.

Source: Eastern Orthodox worship​

 

[Dorothea]

To better clarify my idea of joy I guess I mean that sense of awe that moment you feel God’s complete presense and your happiness goes beyond simply feeling emotion. It’s more than a feeling. I keep hearing of Pascha being a very joyous celebration. What exactly is Pascha?

Hi, from what you described, it's how the Divine Liturgy is to me.