jgr said in post #331:
Christian faith is inextricably intertwined with spirituality.
Of course (John 4:24). But also with physicality (John 1:14; 1 John 4:3; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39).
jgr said in post #331:
He declares in John 6:63b “...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 means that flesh by itself can't give us eternal life. John 6:63b isn't contradicting that Jesus Christ's words can refer to the flesh. For example, Mark 10:33-34 was fulfilled in the flesh (Luke 24:39). So "spirit" in John 6:63 doesn't mean "wholly apart from the flesh".
jgr said in post #331:
Every mention of physical sustenance in John 6 is only to use it as the basis for contrast with spiritual sustenance e.g. John 6:27, 31-35.
Regarding John 6:27, note that it can refer to future, physical sustenance from the literal tree of life (Revelation 2:7).
Regarding John 6:31-35, note that the bread there is also physical (John 6:51b).
jgr said in post #331:
From the moment of conception, every human being who has ever lived or ever will live is immortal, believer and unbeliever alike, with and without the tree of life. The only difference is the ultimate eternal destiny of that immortality.
That is mistaken. For otherwise, Genesis 3:22 wouldn't have been said. Nor Genesis 2:17. Nor Romans 6:23. For just a few examples.
Also, sometime after the future Millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), the souls in Hades will be physically resurrected, judged, and cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:12-15), which is the second death (Revelation 21:8). This will be the death of both their resurrected bodies and their souls (Matthew 10:28). And yet, even though they will be dead in both body and soul, their spirits, which are distinct from their bodies and souls (1 Thessalonians 5:23), will remain conscious, and will suffer along with the spirits of Satan and his fallen angels forever (Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Matthew 25:41,46, Mark 9:45b-46, Isaiah 66:24).
But the future, eternal, conscious suffering of all non-Christians mustn't be considered as eternal
life, but as an eternal, conscious, ongoing, second
death (Revelation 21:8, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:45b-46).
jgr said in post #331:
Just as “antignosticism” would love to wholly-literalize it, just as it attempts to do with everything else.
Note that antignosticism in no way literalizes, in the sense of physicalizing, everything. For it fully embraces the fact that many things are spiritual (e.g. 1 Thessalonians 5:23).
Indeed, even the physical is ultimately based upon the spiritual.
That is, what science today is missing, in its search for a "Theory of Everything" which can unify all the physical forces in the universe, is spirit. So by continuing to exclude the whole idea of spirit, science can never hope to understand the universe at its most fundamental level, or what its ultimate origin was: "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit . . . even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all" (Ecclesiastes 11:5).
The relationship between the spiritual and the physical may be analogous to the relationship between energy and matter. Just as the relationship of energy to matter is summarized by the equation e=mc^2, meaning that immense amounts of energy are congealed and compacted, as it were, to form each tiny particle of matter, so the relationship between spirit and energy could theoretically be summarized by the equation s=ec^3, meaning that immense amounts of spirit may be congealed and compacted, as it were, to form each tiny photon of energy. All energy being based on spirit would make sense, for God is a Spirit (John 4:24), and in Him everything consists (Colossians 1:17, Acts 17:28).
When science's equations regarding such things as the Big Bang singularity, black holes and quantum entanglement require the inclusion of infinities, these infinities shouldn't be seen as "failures", but as pointers to something going beyond the boundaries of the physical: that is, spirit. If science ever becomes able to describe spirit mathematically using proportional numbers rather than infinities, this could lead to new technologies (e.g. spiritual power plants, spiritual bombs), just as when science became able to describe atomic nuclei mathematically, this led to new technologies (e.g. nuclear power plants, nuclear bombs).
Just as energy consists of both particles (photons) and waves (electromagnetic waves) at the same time, so the basis for all energy, spirit, could consist of both particles (spiritons) and waves at the same time. If spirit is equivalent to consciousness, and consciousness consists of logic, emotion and memory, spiritual waves could consist of 3 sine waves (logic waves, emotion waves and memory waves) interlocked at 60-degree angles, just as electromagnetism consists of 2 sine waves (electric waves and magnetic waves) interlocked at a 90-degree angle. But by our current, strictly-physical-based mathematics, a spiritual wave or spiriton would show up in a calculation as an infinity, and so it could be mistakenly rejected by our current science as a "failure". It's possible that by creating a mathematics which involves 5 dimensions of space-time (instead of 4), the apparently infinite value of a spiritual wave or spiriton could be reduced to a proportional value.
String Theory has shown that it's mathematically possible that space-time has more than 3 spatial dimensions. Because of observations such as Daniel 5:5, John 20:26b, and Luke 24:31b, the spiritual realm could be a 4th spatial dimension in which spiritual entities are able to move about without being seen by physical entities in our 3 physical spatial dimensions, because our physical eyes and light as we know it extend in only 3 physical spatial dimensions. The spiritual spatial dimension would be higher than our 3 physical spatial dimensions in the same sense that a 3rd physical dimension is higher than 2 physical dimensions. And so from the spiritual dimension, our physical dimensions may appear flat (or flatter), just as from 3 physical dimensions, something in 2 physical dimensions would appear flat. An entity with access to the spiritual spatial dimension could do such things as enter only part of himself into the physical realm (Daniel 5:5), or suddenly appear in a locked room (John 20:26b), or suddenly disappear (Luke 24:31b). This ability would apply not only to spiritual beings (1 Corinthians 15:44, Luke 24:39), but also to any spiritual wave or particle.
If spiritual particles exist, they could turn out to be "the God Particle" of science. While the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has reached a high-enough energy level so that a "God Particle" (a Higgs boson) has manifested itself, its observed qualities might ultimately be able to be described only by equations involving infinities, so that its qualities and actions could ultimately be seen as "impossible" and "spooky", instead of science finally admitting to the existence of a substance which is spiritual. And spirit wouldn't have to be seen by scientists as some weird, foreign substance, but as the most fundamental substance of even their own selves (1 Thessalonians 5:23). And could spirit also be the basis for the "dark matter" and "dark energy" which together make up 96% of the universe, but which science can't yet observe directly or explain?
The really sad and dangerous thing is that even if science does eventually determine that "the God Particle" (or some other particle, detected at even higher LHC energy levels) is a spiritual particle, which science could come to call the "spiriton", some scientists could still refuse to believe in and submit themselves to YHWH God of the Bible, saying that the existence of spirit per se doesn't require that there is one infinite, conscious spirit-being called YHWH God (John 4:24, Mark 12:30, Deuteronomy 6:5). And in its subsequent experiments with spirit, science could come into contact with the evil spirit-being called Lucifer (Satan), who could manifest himself in some future, ultra-high-energy LHC experiment and claim that
he is the true, beneficent God of mankind and must be worshipped instead of YHWH. In this way, a nascent spiritual science could be hijacked and employed by Lucifer and his current worshippers as one part of their future deception by which the world will eventually be deceived into consciously and openly worshipping Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his human son the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") as God (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), instead of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).
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The unity of mankind which will occur at that future time could be like the unity of mankind which occurred at the time of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:6). And there could even be a future equivalent to the Tower of Babel, which could be built in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For Lucifer could show mankind how to build there a huge tower device, a spiritual machine the size of the Empire State Building, which will be able to send into the sky an incredibly powerful spiritual beam analogous to a laser. Near the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Lucifer could tell mankind that it will need to employ this huge weapon during an impending battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:14b, Revelation 19:19). Mixing some science fiction with some ancient lies of Gnosticism, Lucifer could tell mankind something like:
"YHWH will soon come down to the earth in his gigantic spaceship which is shaped like a Borg Cube [cf. Revelation 21:16]. He's coming to enslave you and turn you all into Borg-like drones. But this mighty Tower Device will be able to blow his Borg Cube and him to bits with its spiritual ray. Then we can focus the Tower Device on any point of empty space until it burns in space-time a hole, a portal through which I will lead your spirits out of this vile material universe which YHWH made to be our prison. And I will lead you back up into the purely-spiritual realm of the Pleroma [i.e. Heaven], where you can live as gods in bliss, doing what you please, forever, just as you had done with me for all ages past, before we by mistake fell into YHWH's trap of this material universe".
Before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming from heaven, Lucifer could prove the power of the Tower Device to mankind by letting the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) use it to blow up some large asteroids and even some moons of other planets, so that mankind will go into its battle against YHWH in full confidence that it will be able to destroy him. But when the battle comes, the device won't work against YHWH (cf. Psalms 21:11, KJV). Instead, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will descend from heaven and take total victory in the battle (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).
jgr said in post #331:
There have been many antichrists, and there will continue to be many antichrists, until there no longer are.
That's right.
For any person is an antichrist who denies Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or who denies Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or who denies Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the 1st century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).
The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.
jgr said in post #331:
John 6:53-57 are by contrast spiritual.
Note that they can be literal.
jgr said in post #331:
Did the disciples drink from that cup of literal blood?
Yes (Matthew 26:27-28), by faith (Hebrews 11:1).
jgr said in post #331:
From STRONGS:
to distinguish or separate a person or thing from the rest, in effect equivalent to to prefer, yield to him the preference or honor: [a Greek word], 1 Corinthians 4:7 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 452 (421)); [some Greek words] 1 Corinthians 11:29.
Not sure what your source was, but it wasn't written by Strong, who actually wrote:
G1252: diakrino --dee-ak-ree'-no; from 1223 and 2919; to separate thoroughly, i.e. (literally and reflex.) to withdraw from, or (by impl.) oppose; fig. to discriminate (by impl., decide), or (reflex.) hesitate: -- contend, make (to) differ( -ence), discern, doubt, judge, be partial, stagger, waver.
The list of words at the end shows how the word was translated in the KJV.
And Matthew 16:3 shows that the word can indeed mean "discern".
jgr said in post #331:
If a sinner with no prior knowledge of other Scripture sincerely complied with Romans 10:9, and died immediately thereafter with no opportunity to acquaint himself with any other Scripture, he would be saved.
Based on what? For 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 shows what is needed to be saved.
That is, even when what one verse says appears plain, it can still be misinterpreted, such as by reading into it things it doesn't say, things which would contradict what other verses say. To arrive at correct doctrine, a verse in one place in the Bible must be compared with (qualified by) other, related verses elsewhere in the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10; 1 Corinthians 2:13). Our doctrine must be based on what the entire Bible says (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4), and not just on what some unqualified verses say.
An example of an unqualified verse would be John 3:36. We can't say it means that all we have to believe is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. For John 3:36 must be qualified by, for example, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (and vice versa). We have to believe both that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the 3rd day. So when John 3:36 is qualified, something is added to it, not subtracted from it. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 adds further belief requirements to John 3:36 (and vice versa). 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 doesn't subtract, negate or contradict the belief requirement of John 3:36 (or vice versa).
Another way that John 3:36 must be qualified is we can't say that it means all that Christians have to do is believe for at least one moment during their lifetime. For John 3:36 must be qualified by other verses which show that Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they continue to believe to the end (Hebrews 3:6,14, Colossians 1:23). And this is just one of the con
jgr said in post #331:
I see no evidence of transubstantiation in Galatians 3:1.
Then what is it referring to?
jgr said in post #331:
So on balance, should the Reformation have occurred, or should it have not?
There is no way to tell. For it depends on whether or not the RCC would have reformed itself eventually. Indeed, the Reformation only
hardened the RCC in its ways, inspiring the Counter-Reformation.
An analogy would be the Cold War. Eventually the USSR reformed itself, under Gorbachev, until it fell apart. It did not fall apart because the U.S. invaded the USSR. Similarly, without the Reformation, a pope could have arisen within the RCC who reformed it, until it fell apart and became again simply the Christian Church, with no man-made denominations (1 Corinthians 1:12-13).