Did Cain and Abel Keep the Torah or Sabbath?

Mercymessianicjudiasm

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Objectively, the verse said nothing about the Sabbath.
The verse mentioned "rest" and "seventh " year, Sabbath means "rest" celebrated on the seventh day. Objectively this verse is about the Sabbath year. Lev 25:4
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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"And there was evening and there was morning, the first day." In the verse, evening precedes morning, meaning that the day begins in the evening. This is the only interpretation that Israel has ever had of this verse, and is why Judaism has always begun Shabbat at Sunset (lighting candles a bit before so that we have time for error).
YHWH called the light "day", he called darkness "night". Thus "morning" is the beginning of the day (literal definition) and "evening" is the end of the day (factual definition). The evening is mentioned before the day, not because evening precedes the day, but YHWH prefers the evening or "cool of the day" or afternoon to meet with Adam. Hence the Sabbath may be celebrated the evening before the Sabbath light.
 
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Open Heart

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YHWH called the light "day", he called darkness "night". Thus "morning" is the beginning of the day (literal definition) and "evening" is the end of the day (factual definition). The evening is mentioned before the day, not because evening precedes the day, but YHWH prefers the evening or "cool of the day" or afternoon to meet with Adam. Hence the Sabbath may be celebrated the evening before the Sabbath light.
Thousands of years of Biblical scholars have disagreed with you. And those Biblical scholars that began Shabbat at sunset? Jesus never corrected them.
 
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Open Heart

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The verse mentioned "rest" and "seventh " year, Sabbath means "rest" celebrated on the seventh day. Objectively this verse is about the Sabbath year. Lev 25:4
It is not just ANY kind of rest, MMJ. For example, it's not about sleeping.

I'm not sure why you are changing the subject to go off about the sabbatical year. It's not what the discussion is about.
 
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pinacled

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It seems quite plausible that Adam would have been given an awareness of the significance of every 7th day as a "Day of Rest" and also both Abel and Cain that a "Day of Rest" was made for man from the Get Go. It may have been every 7th Day that the LORD walked in the cool of the day at the time of the evening breeze with Adam and his wife. Then again this awareness of the "7th Day of Rest" became even more meaningful after they left the Garden of Eden having to work by the sweat of their brow until they returned to the ground; "for dust you are and to dust you will return" (Genesis 3:19).

The-Lord-Of-The-Sabbath.jpg

Is it not possible that Abel honored the 7th Day of Rest unto the Almighty Creator; while Cain was half-hearted in his observance. And in time, it was the nature of fallen mankind to dishonor the 7th Day of Rest to the extent that ...

Bereshit 6:5-8 (Chabad Tanach ~ CJB ~ doesn't use all CAPS for YHVH)
5 And the Lord saw that the evil of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of his heart was only evil all the time. הוַיַּ֣רְא יְהֹוָ֔ה כִּ֥י רַבָּ֛ה רָעַ֥ת הָֽאָדָ֖ם בָּאָ֑רֶץ וְכָל־יֵ֨צֶר֙ מַחְשְׁבֹ֣ת לִבּ֔וֹ רַ֥ק רַ֖ע כָּל־הַיּֽוֹם:
6 And the Lord regretted that He had made man upon the earth, and He became grieved in His heart. ווַיִּנָּ֣חֶם יְהֹוָ֔ה כִּֽי־עָשָׂ֥ה אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֖ם בָּאָ֑רֶץ וַיִּתְעַצֵּ֖ב אֶל־לִבּֽוֹ:
7 And the Lord said, "I will blot out man, whom I created, from upon the face of the earth, from man to cattle to creeping thing, to the fowl of the heavens, for I regret that I made them." זוַיֹּ֣אמֶר יְהֹוָ֗ה אֶמְחֶ֨ה אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֤ם אֲשֶׁר־בָּרָ֨אתִי֙ מֵעַל֨ פְּנֵ֣י הָֽאֲדָמָ֔ה מֵֽאָדָם֙ עַד־בְּהֵמָ֔ה עַד־רֶ֖מֶשׂ וְעַד־ע֣וֹף הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם כִּ֥י נִחַ֖מְתִּי כִּ֥י עֲשִׂיתִֽם:
8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord. חוְנֹ֕חַ מָ֥צָא חֵ֖ן בְּעֵינֵ֥י יְהֹוָֽה:

Perhaps one reason Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD is that he and his family rested every 7th Day before and during the building of the Ark. Even though due to mankind's evil tendencies they still may have had some awareness of a 7th Day of Rest (according to the then reckoning of time), but they no longer observed it unto the LORD, but instead wasted the day in wanton pleasure.
Yes, the Sabbath is passed from generation to generation.
Excellent post
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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Thousands of years of Biblical scholars have disagreed with you. And those Biblical scholars that began Shabbat at sunset? Jesus never corrected them.
I do not think you actually read my posts. I know that Shabbat naturally begins in the evening, after the end of the sixth day; but I asked you why? You failed to answer my question. You say every day begins in the evening, so your theory fails because I have used a dictionary to define morning and evening.
 
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It is not just ANY kind of rest, MMJ. For example, it's not about sleeping.

I'm not sure why you are changing the subject to go off about the sabbatical year. It's not what the discussion is about.
I never said anything about "sleeping".
 
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Open Heart

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I do not think you actually read my posts. I know that Shabbat naturally begins in the evening, after the end of the sixth day; but I asked you why? You failed to answer my question. You say every day begins in the evening, so your theory fails because I have used a dictionary to define morning and evening.
You are using an English dictionary that comes from the heart of Western Civilization. The Bible is a product of Israelite Civilization. You have to look to Jewish Oral tradition to understand its interpretation. I'm not making this up. Oral Torah says that "And it was evening and it was morning, the first day" means that the day begins at sunset. And you want to quote a Western Civilizaiton English dictionary as if that would have more authority?
 
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Open Heart

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I never said anything about "sleeping".
Sleeping was simply an example, to show you that there are forms of rest that have nothing to do with Shabbat. IOW just because something is "rest", doesn't mean you can call it "Sabbath."
 
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Sleeping was simply an example, to show you that there are forms of rest that have nothing to do with Shabbat. IOW just because something is "rest", doesn't mean you can call it "Sabbath."
rest has everything to do with Shabbat.
And is exactly what the pharisees generation were neglecting just as Yeshua said.

And just as it was with Yov(job) experience, satan only comes as a thief offering the cup of devils.
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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You are using an English dictionary that comes from the heart of Western Civilization. The Bible is a product of Israelite Civilization. You have to look to Jewish Oral tradition to understand its interpretation. I'm not making this up. Oral Torah says that "And it was evening and it was morning, the first day" means that the day begins at sunset. And you want to quote a Western Civilizaiton English dictionary as if that would have more authority?
The bible is written using English words. Therefore it is plausible to define terms using an English dictionary so we don't have men promoting wild and foolish arguments that can not be supported using scriptures in its proper context.
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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Sleeping was simply an example, to show you that there are forms of rest that have nothing to do with Shabbat. IOW just because something is "rest", doesn't mean you can call it "Sabbath."
Sleeping is an example I never used. Again I do not think you understand my words.
 
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Open Heart

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Sleeping is an example I never used. Again I do not think you understand my words.
Again, Sleeping is the example that *I* used. I never said that you used it. sheesh. I'm simply pointing out to you that not all forms of rest are sabbatical. Therefore when you read about rest, you cannot automatically conclude that it is referring to Sabbath.
 
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Open Heart

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The bible is written using English words. Therefore it is plausible to define terms using an English dictionary so we don't have men promoting wild and foolish arguments that can not be supported using scriptures in its proper context.
The Bible is written in Hebrew and Greek, within a Jewish culture.
 
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tampasteve

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Therefore it is plausible to define terms using an English dictionary so we don't have men promoting wild and foolish arguments that can not be supported using scriptures in its proper context.
Not if we are trying to get to the true root of the meaning of the text. To do that we are always to refer to the original language, Greek or Hebrew in this case. Also the culture and idioms that may be used, without that we can take things far out of context or meaning, even when using a literal translation.
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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The Bible is written in Hebrew and Greek, within a Jewish culture.
The bible that YOU read is neither Greek or Hebrew, so please keep the discussion relevant to the discussion. You have not posted one Hebrew or Greek text or word. All your posts have been in English, therefore you must abide by the English language and grammar rules. It is not plausible to post English words then try to create your own definitions for those words, and then say well I'm telling you what those English words mean in Hebrew, I have heard these baseless arguments before. I am telling you what my English bible means in English, Greek have different grammar rules, so the name "Yeshua" would be impossible in Greek. Of course ancient hebrew have no vowels, so trust me I am not ignorant. YHWH, Sabbath.
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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Not if we are trying to get to the true root of the meaning of the text. To do that we are always to refer to the original language, Greek or Hebrew in this case. Also the culture and idioms that may be used, without that we can take things far out of context or meaning, even when using a literal translation.
The original language never explicitly says a day begins in the evening. Again it is common knowledge that a day begins in the morning.
 
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Mercymessianicjudiasm

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Again, Sleeping is the example that *I* used. I never said that you used it. sheesh. I'm simply pointing out to you that not all forms of rest are sabbatical. Therefore when you read about rest, you cannot automatically conclude that it is referring to Sabbath.
You are attempting to use your example to explain my point or reasoning. Sabbath not only means rest but normally occurs in sequence "seventh ", after all your good work is done. The fact that you would equate or limit this holy commandment to simply "sleeping" surprises me.
 
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The original language never explicitly says a day begins in the evening. Again it is common knowledge that a day begins in the morning.
It is not explicit, it is implicit. Regardless, this discussion is going nowhere for me as I also personally believe in the Oral Torah and Traditions.
 
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