Slavery in the bible.

Everybodyknows

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When it comes to what the Bible says on slavery, I think I will take the actions that believers in the Bible have taken to eradicate slavery world wide as giving the better understanding than the superficial understanding given to us by non-believers who make the argument that we really ought to still believe in slavery.
I don't think you are really following the discussion. No one on either side is making a pro-slavery argument. The point is that we all universally accept that slavery is immoral. The question is why is it considered immoral in our times when it wasn't considered immoral in Bible times? What changed? How did we determine that slavery is immoral?
 
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Everybodyknows

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Exodus 21:16“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
This is a prohibition against kidnapping. There are other ways to enslave people against their will, eg war captives. Are you saying that all slaves in Israel are willing slaves?
 
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Par5

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And since they were a conquered enemy, their choice was either to enter into slavery or death (they were not good people in regards to the enemies of Israel). They were not considered citizens of Israel, unless they adopted the Jewish faith and agreed to the tenets of Judaism, so they did not have the same rights as the Jews. Was it a perfect system? No. But God was bringing more humane treatment into a corrupt system.



They were supposed to both be treated fairly, Jew and Gentile. Even the foreigner was never meant to enter into slavery for their entire life, but they were supposed to be set free every by the 7th year of their servitude, Jew and Gentile, if I understand correctly.
Non-Hebrews could be forced into slavery and made slaves for life. Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Hebrew slaves could be freed in the seventh year, but if his master had given the slave a wife then the wife and any children became the property of the slave owner. The only way the slave could stay with his family was to become his master's slave for life. If he did so his ear was tagged like a sheep to denote his slave status.
 
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Par5

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If someone in the ANE couldn't pay their debts, then they could either beg, starve, or sell their future labor, and if they were able bodied, then begging wasn't an option, so slavery was an economic necessity. Furthermore, most people, especially women, were not able to survive on their own, so it was often to the advantage of someone to become a slave, where they would they would be cared for and have their basic needs met, especially if women were given the full status of becoming someone's wife. Someone who was released from slavery because they were mistreated often didn't result in long-term freedom, but in becoming someone else's slave. The major problems with slavery is when people are enslaved against their will, which the Bible forbids, and when slaves are mistreated, which the Bible also forbids.

A covenant is a very serious contract, where people would cut animals in two, stand between the halves, and say that they would become like these animals if they broke the terms of the covenant, so intentionally breaking the Sabbath was in violation of their covenant agreement, which comes with the death penalty. However, Jews do not have a history of carrying out the death penalty every time that the Law prescribed it, but rather they often imposed a fine instead. The harshness of the prescribed penalty was to show the seriousness of the offense, while the light penalty given was to show the mercy of God. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faith are weightier matters of the Law, so if mercy is not evident in how someone carries out the Law, then they are not obeying it correctly. Mercy is given with the expectation that the person who committed the offense will repent and turn from continuing to commit that offense, but if someone does not seek mercy and is not repentant, then no mercy is given. We know that God is just and that He judges the heart, so the issue is not that picking up stick is such a horrible offense that anyone who does it should be killed, but rather the issue was that he was intentionally breaking the Sabbath and thereby his covenant agreement and that he was not repentant.
The bible states that slaves could be taken from non-Hebrew nations and that the men and their families would become slaves for life. Leviticus 25:24-26
 
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Strathos

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Yea, having (almost) gotten into an argument myself with someone who believes that the moon emits its own light rather than reflecting the sun's light, I am acutely aware of just how right I am. In the end, what arguments could be possibly be made to convince a flat earther of the error of his ways.

Well, when civilian space travel becomes common and affordable it might help with that.
 
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Soyeong

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This is a prohibition against kidnapping. There are other ways to enslave people against their will, eg war captives. Are you saying that all slaves in Israel are willing slaves?

The problem with war is that when an army is defeated, it leaves behind the women, children, and elderly, who are the least capable of surviving on their own. If left to themselves, they would die of starvation and exposure, so it was to their advantage to be taken as slaves by Israel. For instance, the Law gives guidelines where a captive could gain the full status of becoming someone's wife, which was much more than they could hope for if taken as a slave by other nations.
 
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Par5

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No. God was dealing with an already existing system that was out of control and setting boundaries on it. Having a servant (a more proper perspective for the time in history and culture) was a way to keep a servant/slave alive. There was no welfare system then at all. So an enemy captured in a war, or someone who had brought themselves into massive debt, became a servant/slave to survive. And if they were treated well by the family they served, many chose to remain servants for the remainder of their life. If they did not become a slave/servant, their life was pretty much forfeit. Was it a perfect situation? No. Did God accept it as righteous? No, and I would assert you cannot prove from proper exegesis of scripture that to own slaves/servants was commanded for all believers/Christians at all times and in all places as a universal rule and a righteous deed.

Moreover, if God did not directly condemn something in the Bible, that does not automatically mean that that thing is automatically righteous. For example, the use of heroin or crack cocaine is never explicitly condemned in the Bible, so by following your logic, does that mean that drug use such as heroin or crack cocaine is automatically a righteous thing? I say no.


Not the best translation you are referring to there, so no I am not in variance to God.

Translation closer to the original language [ESV]:

Exodus 21:21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

The slave/servant was part of the way the Master made money. When the Master made money, he was able to provide for his servant/slave.

I think you are making the mistake of comparing modern day slavery to slavery in the time of the ancient Israelites, which is not an accurate comparison at all.
It never ceases to amaze me how Christian apologists call biblical slavery everything except slavery. You would think you were discussing some kind of aid program for the homeless.
A system where a person is beaten for not pleasing his master. A system where a persons wife and children can be taken from him and passed on as an inheritance. A system where a person can only save losing his wife and children by having his ear tagged and become a slave for life. That my friend is someone who is a slave, not someone who is receiving an act of charity.
Saying someone is their money is nothing more than a euphemism for being their property.
 
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Everybodyknows

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The problem with war is that when an army is defeated, it leaves behind the women, children, and elderly, who are the least capable of surviving on their own. If left to themselves, they would die of starvation and exposure, so it was to their advantage to be taken as slaves by Israel.
Was it in the Israelites advantage to be taken into slavery when they were the ones defeated? Would they cry out for God to rescue them?

For instance, the Law gives guidelines where a captive could gain the full status of becoming someone's wife, which was much more than they could hope for if taken as a slave by other nations.
This doesn't really make things any better for the rest.
 
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Par5

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In a sense we are all slaves...are we not forced to work everyday.. many just barely getting by pay check to paycheck .sounds familiar
You compare your life to that of a slave? Really? My goodness, it must be terrible for you. Imagine having to go to work to earn your pay. I just hope you have managed to avoid being beaten by your employer and that he hasn't claimed ownership of your children or placed a tag on your ear. Poor you, it can't be easy being a slave!
 
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Par5

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Absolutely. And they should be made to work without pay as well, doing whatever their parents require. Of course they should be treated humanely.
In an ideal world that would be great, but our children don't take long to learn there is such a thing as the Bank of Mum and Dad. And yes, they should be treated humanely.:)
 
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Soyeong

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Was it in the Israelites advantage to be taken into slavery when they were the ones defeated? Would they cry out for God to rescue them?

This doesn't really make things any better for the rest.

In Exodus 21:1-6, it gives guidelines where a slave could choose to become a permanent slave instead of going free, so you should be considering scenarios where people thought that they were better off as a slave than as someone who was free. In Israel, slaves could go free is they were mistreated, but there was nothing to prevent their mistreatment in other nations, so it would most likely not be to their advantage to be taken into slavery by them.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Philemon is a short book of the Bible which gives the example of a slave being given freedom as a picture of the liberty in Christ from sin and unbelief.

But of course if the Word of God is read in unbelief, with a view to diminishing its faith related content, then such writings will not be appreciated. Neither is there any profit in continuing the discussion where there is little or no desire actually to learn what God's Word means.
 
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Everybodyknows

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In Exodus 21:1-6, it gives guidelines where a slave could choose to become a permanent slave instead of going free, so you should be considering scenarios where people thought that they were better off as a slave than as someone who was free. In Israel, slaves could go free is they were mistreated, but there was nothing to prevent their mistreatment in other nations, so it would most likely not be to their advantage to be taken into slavery by them.
The key verse in that passage is Exodus 21:2

If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.​

This passage is only applicable to Hebrew servants, not all slaves.

For foreigners this applies:
Non-Hebrews could be forced into slavery and made slaves for life. Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Hebrew slaves could be freed in the seventh year, but if his master had given the slave a wife then the wife and any children became the property of the slave owner. The only way the slave could stay with his family was to become his master's slave for life. If he did so his ear was tagged like a sheep to denote his slave status.
 
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Everybodyknows

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Exodus, where God kicked pharaoh's butt big time for enslaving his people after Moses asked the petulant god-king to "let my people go".
That is a pretty important book in the scheme of things. One would think that it would be pretty hard to miss.
God only seems concerned with his own people being enslaved and rather tolerant of his people enslaving others.
 
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Everybodyknows

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Philemon is a short book of the Bible which gives the example of a slave being given freedom as a picture of the liberty in Christ from sin and unbelief.

But of course if the Word of God is read in unbelief, with a view to diminishing its faith related content, then such writings will not be appreciated. Neither is there any profit in continuing the discussion where there is little or no desire actually to learn what God's Word means.
Do you think there is a change in attitude towards slavery between the old and new testaments?
 
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JoeP222w

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Are you saying then that the Bible is not a standard of objective morality?

Not at all. God's word is the sole infallible rule of morality and faith. I don't know where you get this question from my previous comment.
 
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Everybodyknows

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Not at all. God's word is the sole infallible rule of morality and faith. I don't know where you get this question from my previous comment.
You said
He was dealing with an evil system for the people of that time under the covenant of Law alone.
I took that comment as though you were implying that God reduced his standards in accordance with the human culture of the time. And that the covenant of law alone is somehow incomplete.
 
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JoeP222w

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I took that comment as though you were implying that God reduced his standards in accordance with the human culture of the time. And that the covenant of law alone is somehow incomplete.

That is not what I meant. I apologize if I was not clear. God does not lower His standard. But God does use means to glorify Himself. God uses evil by His sovereign decree, but that does not make Him less than perfect or the author of evil. God allowed Pharoah to enslave Israel for a time, so that God could set the Israelites free to show His mercy and grace on the people of Israel, and to show His judgment on the false gods of Egypt and the Egyptians for following after false gods. God decree that Joseph was to be sold into slavery so that God would later use Joseph to preserve His people, even though Joseph's brothers intended it for evil.

So what if God was using the general practice of slavery in some manner to demonstrate His glory? Apart from the grace of God, we are all enslaved. We are slaves to sin. But by the work of grace by God, we become slaves to righteousness.

My primary point I was attempting to make, although I know I was not completely clear, is that when we look at the practice of slavery and the laws that God gave to the ancient Israelites concerning slavery, we far too often look at it from the modern lens and completely ignore what is going on at that time, in that place, with those particular people. We think we have the right to judge God's actions and laws, when we don't have that right at all.

I seek to defend the truth of God, although God does not need me to do this, I believe as a Christian, we have a responsibility to stand up when someone takes scripture completely out of context, has no concept of what was happening in history, has no love of truth or God, and attempts to call God evil, when they themselves are the evil ones, because of their hatred of God and attempting to make themselves God.
 
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