The firmament of Genesis 1 assumes flat earth

[Edison Trent]

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I have used my telescope to do many of these things.


But you mentioned seeing some things some 30 miles away. If both the viewer and the object are on the same sea level (notice it is not "sea curvature") then there should be about 500' of curvature between the two. Ive accounted for the height of the person above sea level.

How did you do that math, there is 8 inch curve for every mile, at 30 miles away it is 20'

8x30=240''
240 divided by 12 what makes up a foot= 20'

 

[Dig4truth]

How did you do that math, there is 8 inch curve for every mile, at 30 miles away it is 20'

8x30=240''
240 divided by 12 what makes up a foot= 20'

How did you do that math, there is 8 inch curve for every mile, at 30 miles away it is 20'

8x30=240''
240 divided by 12 what makes up a foot= 20'

It is 8" per mile squared.

30x30 = 900 (mile squared)
900x8 = 7,200
7,200 * 12 = 600'

If the miles were not squared it would be a simple slope instead of a curve.

 

[Edison Trent]

It is 8" per mile squared.

30x30 = 900 (mile squared)
900x8 = 7,200
7,200 * 12 = 600'

If the miles were not squared it would be a simple slope instead of a curve.

That makes no sense, it is not squared, if you drive a mile are driving squared,. How long a mile in feet is that in squared feet no it is not. A straight line is not squared

 

[Dig4truth]

That makes no sense, it is not squared, if you drive a mile are driving squared,. How long a mile in feet is that in squared feet no it is not. A straight line is not squared

A straight line may not be squared but you are asking about a sphere. To calculate the curvature in a sphere the miles need to be squared.

 

[Doug Melven]

The moon is a light & generates its own light according to Genesis 1 & the rest of the Scripture. I can only speak on what the Scriptures say

Where do you see that it generates its own light?
Just because it is a light does not mean that it generates its own light.
We call a light bulb a "light" but it does not generate its own,light.
Jesus calls us lights, but we do not generate our own light.

I personally believe in a spherical earth. It is not shaped exactly like a basketball.
I also believe that God created this planet we call Earth in six days.
I do not need a flat earth to show me that evolution is junk science.
Just looking at the complexity of the human body will show you that it could not have come about by random means.

 

[Oldmantook]

When the moon enters the earth's shadow it just turns itself off a little bit at a time.

How do you reconcile your view with Gen 1:16?

 

[JackRT]

How do you reconcile your view with Gen 1:16?

Genesis 1:16 (KJV) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

This represents a pre-scientific understanding of cosmology. I regard the first four words of the Bible as the most accurate --- Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God ...."

 

[Oldmantook]

Genesis 1:16 (KJV) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

This represents a pre-scientific understanding of cosmology. I regard the first four words of the Bible as the most accurate --- Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God ...."

So do you align yourself with the scientific Coppernican cosmology. For myself I prefer to align with the Hebrew, biblical cosmology. "In the beginning God..." not "In the beginning Science..."

 

[Oldmantook]

It may look like a flat disc to you---it does not to me. And telescopes prove it. The shadow of the earth on the moon is round---so now you're saying that the earth is a flat disc that is standing on it side in order to create this shadow?

No, according to Scripture, Gen 1:16 states that the moon has it's own light as God made "two great lights." Thus our observations of the moon's shadow must be reconciled in light of what the scripture states and not the other way around. If the moon has its own light as the scripture states, how can it have a shadow said to be based on the sun's position?
'

 

[elliott95]

No, according to Scripture, Gen 1:16 states that the moon has it's own light as God made "two great lights." Thus our observations of the moon's shadow must be reconciled in light of what the scripture states and not the other way around. If the moon has its own light as the scripture states, how can it have a shadow said to be based on the sun's position?
'

I think one poster has already pointed out how sparce the original Hebrew text is.
You are reading a lot into the idea of the two great lights.
Does it say that one is the moon? I don't think so. I don't think that the sun was even mentioned in the English even, specifically.
We interpret the words to mean sun and moon, but that is not really the text. The text itself is very sparce.

 

[Oldmantook]

I think one poster has already pointed out how sparce the original Hebrew text is.
You are reading a lot into the idea of the two great lights.
Does it say that one is the moon? I don't think so. I don't think that the sun was even mentioned in the English even, specifically.
We interpret the words to mean sun and moon, but that is not really the text. The text itself is very sparce.

Making an argument from silence is one of the weakest if not the most weakest form of argumentation. Even given the sparcity of the text what do you propose as a viable alternate interpretation?
And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Besides the sun which we already know gives its light to rule the day and the moon which we know gives it light to rule the night, do you know of any other bodies of light that do the same thing?

 

[mmksparbud]

No, according to Scripture, Gen 1:16 states that the moon has it's own light as God made "two great lights." Thus our observations of the moon's shadow must be reconciled in light of what the scripture states and not the other way around. If the moon has its own light as the scripture states, how can it have a shadow said to be based on the sun's position?
'

A solar eclipse is when the moon comes between the sun and the earth. So the moon blocks the sun. A light, passing in front of another light will block the other light, however, it is the light of the one that does the blocking that you will be seeing. If the moon had it's own light, it would be seen when in front of the sun. The moon blocks the sun, but the moons' light would have been showing, esp. in the center of it.
The bible just states it is 2 lights. That is what is seen. It does not go into how that light is obtained. With the moon, it does not have it's own light, it reflects the suns'. The effect is still the moon is a light at night.
16 and~he~will~DO(Verb) {וַיַּעַשׂ / wai'ya'as} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} AT {אֶת / et} TWO {שְׁנֵי-1 / shê'ney} the~LUMINARY~s {הַמְּאֹרֹת / ham'o'rot} the~GREAT~s {הַגְּדֹלִים / ha'ge'do'lim} AT {אֶת / et} the~LUMINARY {הַמָּאוֹר / ha'ma'or} the~GREAT {הַגָּדֹל / ha'ga'dol} to~REGULATION {לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת / lê'mem'she'let} the~DAY {הַיּוֹם / hai'yom} and~AT {וְאֶת / wê'et} the~LUMINARY {הַמָּאוֹר / ha'ma'or} the~SMALL {הַקָּטֹן / ha'qa'ton} to~REGULATION {לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת / lê'mem'she'let} the~NIGHT {הַלַּיְלָה / ha'lai'lah} and~AT {וְאֵת / wê'eyt} the~STAR~s {הַכּוֹכָבִים / ha'ko'kha'vim}7]

and Elohiym made two of the great luminaries, the great luminary for the regulation of the day, and the small luminary for the regulation of the night, and the stars,

 

[flgftlc]

The firmament of Genesis 1 describes a flat earth having a bowl shaped firmament resting on it, and holding up water above. The firmament creates a safe livable zone of air for us to live in. The sun, moon, and stars are inside.

Why do I never hear people mention the flat earth assumption of Genesis 1?

This is not correct. Read this study on what the firmament actually is, The Firmament of Ice and the Water from the Great Flood | Wisdom of God .

 

[Dig4truth]

Genesis 1:16 (KJV) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

This represents a pre-scientific understanding of cosmology.

I regard the first four words of the Bible as the most accurate --- Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God ...."

Have you considered the first ten Words?

In the beginning (time)
God created (energy)
The heavens (space)
And the earth (matter)

 

[Dig4truth]

Is there any evidence to support a geocentric cosmology or a motionless earth? This 14 min video provides a springboard for the answers. It does provide answers but do the research for yourselves.

 

[gordonhooker]

I think that 2Tim 2:23 is quite appropriate for all of this stuff.....

 

[Jadis40]

No, according to Scripture, Gen 1:16 states that the moon has it's own light as God made "two great lights." Thus our observations of the moon's shadow must be reconciled in light of what the scripture states and not the other way around. If the moon has its own light as the scripture states, how can it have a shadow said to be based on the sun's position?
'

I take the opposite approach. When science and the scripture seem to conflict, I tend to think its our interpretation of scripture that's wrong and we're reading something into the text that's not there.

The moon doesn't produce its own light. My argument is that if that's meant to be taken as fact, then the moon would be full all the time. It's not. Hence, the moon gets its "light" from reflecting sunlight.

As far as how it can have a shadow, that's basically what a solar eclipse is. The moon comes between the earth and the sun, thus creating a shadow on the earth, which varies from eclipse to eclipse. Astronomers can accurately predict when and where the path of totality will be. There's no mystery behind eclipses now.

As far as the shape of the earth. It's very clearly spheroid in shape, not flat. I feel there are too many lines of evidence (differing circumpolar constellations which vary from one hemisphere to another, just being one of those.)

 

[Oldmantook]

A solar eclipse is when the moon comes between the sun and the earth. So the moon blocks the sun. A light, passing in front of another light will block the other light, however, it is the light of the one that does the blocking that you will be seeing. If the moon had it's own light, it would be seen when in front of the sun. The moon blocks the sun, but the moons' light would have been showing, esp. in the center of it.
The bible just states it is 2 lights. That is what is seen. It does not go into how that light is obtained. With the moon, it does not have it's own light, it reflects the suns'. The effect is still the moon is a light at night.
16 and~he~will~DO(Verb) {וַיַּעַשׂ / wai'ya'as} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} AT {אֶת / et} TWO {שְׁנֵי-1 / shê'ney} the~LUMINARY~s {הַמְּאֹרֹת / ham'o'rot} the~GREAT~s {הַגְּדֹלִים / ha'ge'do'lim} AT {אֶת / et} the~LUMINARY {הַמָּאוֹר / ha'ma'or} the~GREAT {הַגָּדֹל / ha'ga'dol} to~REGULATION {לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת / lê'mem'she'let} the~DAY {הַיּוֹם / hai'yom} and~AT {וְאֶת / wê'et} the~LUMINARY {הַמָּאוֹר / ha'ma'or} the~SMALL {הַקָּטֹן / ha'qa'ton} to~REGULATION {לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת / lê'mem'she'let} the~NIGHT {הַלַּיְלָה / ha'lai'lah} and~AT {וְאֵת / wê'eyt} the~STAR~s {הַכּוֹכָבִים / ha'ko'kha'vim}7]

and Elohiym made two of the great luminaries, the great luminary for the regulation of the day, and the small luminary for the regulation of the night, and the stars,

You make a reasonable point regarding the moon's light - or lack thereof. However that in itself would not invalidate the interpretation that God created two separate lights. So we fall back to our observations where you rightly pointed out what happens during a solar eclipse. If the moon is but a reflector of the sun's light then moonlight should have the same thermal properties as sunlight. However, moonshade registers a higher temperature than moonlight. In other words, the temp of the ground in a shaded area at night is higher than the ground temp which is exposed to direct moonlight. Another nagging question I have is during a solar eclipse - the recent one this past August. In the USA, the shadow of that eclipse started in Oregon and ended S. Carolina. It moved from West to East. Given the earth's rotation in an eastward direction, I don't see how it's possible for the eclipse to have traveled from West to East. Instead the eclipses' shadow should have traveled in the opposite direction from East to West.

 

[Oldmantook]

I take the opposite approach. When science and the scripture seem to conflict, I tend to think its our interpretation of scripture that's wrong and we're reading something into the text that's not there.

The moon doesn't produce its own light. My argument is that if that's meant to be taken as fact, then the moon would be full all the time. It's not. Hence, the moon gets its "light" from reflecting sunlight.

As far as how it can have a shadow, that's basically what a solar eclipse is. The moon comes between the earth and the sun, thus creating a shadow on the earth, which varies from eclipse to eclipse. Astronomers can accurately predict when and where the path of totality will be. There's no mystery behind eclipses now.

As far as the shape of the earth. It's very clearly spheroid in shape, not flat. I feel there are too many lines of evidence (differing circumpolar constellations which vary from one hemisphere to another, just being one of those.)

I have no problem with your approach. The scriptures are never wrong but perhaps our interpretation of what they say is faulty. So the germane question is has science rightly informed us regarding cosmology and Scripture is thus interpreted via that paradigm, or is science wrong in this particular area and the scriptures speak for themselves.

Regarding moonlight as a reflection of the sun and solar eclipses, see my prior comment to mmksparbud. Also in our Coppernican understanding, I don't see how it's possible to have a full moon. Under a Full Moon phase, the earth is situated between the the moon and the sun. Picture a spherical earth in the middle with the sun on the right and the moon on the left. It is night time on the left-side of the earth as the sun is shining on the right-hand (day time) side only. The moon is said to be fully illuminated (Full Moon) because it's face is said to be illuminated by the sun as seen by those at night on the left-side of earth. However, how is it possible for the moon's face to be fully illuminated when the size of the earth would be act as a giant barrier to the moon receiving/reflecting the sun's light and thus being fully illuminated?

 

[JackRT]

I don't see how it's possible to have a full moon. Under a Full Moon phase, the earth is situated between the the moon and the sun. Picture a spherical earth in the middle with the sun on the right and the moon on the left. It is night time on the left-side of the earth as the sun is shining on the right-hand (day time) side only. The moon is said to be fully illuminated (Full Moon) because it's face is said to be illuminated by the sun as seen by those at night on the left-side of earth. However, how is it possible for the moon's face to be fully illuminated when the size of the earth would be act as a giant barrier to the moon receiving/reflecting the sun's light and thus being fully illuminated?

The plane of the ecliptic is the plane of the earth's orbit about the sun. The plane of the moon's orbit about the earth is close but not identical to the plane of the ecliptic. It is actually tilted at about 5 degrees. If the two planes were the same we would see 13 lunar eclipses every year.