Lost tribes or not so lost tribes???

visionary

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Because Judaism definitively decided that Oral Torah was the only accepted arrangement. Even Messianic Judaism (the form that says, "Messianic Judaism is a Judaism") is increasingly accepting parts of the Talmud, Chanukah, lighting Shabbat candles, how to build a sukkah, etc.
Commonality is a comfort.
 
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Open Heart

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So did all of Israel until after the Babylonian exile,
and Idumeans (Edomites) became the leaders.
Israel follows a Patrilineal descent for Tribal affiliation, but for overall identification as an Israel, it is Matrilineal.
 
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Rachel Rachel

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Well, what of it? If we are going to use the Torah and the B'rit Chadashah as sacred scripture then it implores us to believe that Yeshua was descended from King David via Ruth, and Lot....Here is a pretty good overview of it, I think:
Sordid Lineage, Beautiful Legacy | Desiring God

Jesus is unashamed to have women of questionable repute in his family. In fact, he actually goes out of his way to point them out. In Jesus’ genealogy listed in Matthew chapter one, only fathers and sons are recorded, with five notable exceptions where mothers are also named.

Both Ruth and Rahab make the list (Matt 1:5). So does Tamar (Matt. 1:3), who entered the royal bloodline by disguising herself as a harlot and seducing Judah to impregnate her (because of the unjust way he treated her—see Gen. 38). Bathsheba, whom David stole from Uriah, gets mentioned (Matt 1:6). And so does Mary, Jesus’ own mother, who became pregnant with Jesus outside of marriage, and whose claim to miraculous conception was received by most with…um… skepticism (Matt 1:16).

Isn’t that wonderful? People tend to conceal the more disgraceful events and people in their family. But not Jesus. He chooses to highlight possibly the five most scandalous women in his lineage.

God weaves his grace throughout the Bible—even through the genealogies! God loves to redeem sinners. He loves to produce something beautiful out of sordid family backgrounds. He loves to make foreigners his children and reconcile his enemies. He loves to make all things work together for good for those who love him and are called according to his purpose (Rom. 8:28).

Each of these women, who entered redemptive history during the Old Covenant era, are beautiful illustrations of what God would later say to Peter when clarifying that his grace is extended to all peoples: “What God has made clean, do not call common” (Acts 10:15). That is amazingly good news to commoners, foreigners, and sinners like us.​
Well, what are we to do with God's commandment that no Moabite could enter His assembly - ever?

Deut 23:3An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
This is why I question whether Ruth was a genetic Moabitess.
 
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Rachel Rachel

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Well, what are we to do with God's commandment that no Moabite could enter His assembly - ever?

Deut 23:3An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
This is why I question whether Ruth was a genetic Moabitess.
Also we have :
Ezra 9:
1 When as these things were done, the rulers came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the Priests, and the Levites are not separated from the people of the lands (as touching their abominations) to wit, of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.

2 For they have taken their daughters to themselves, and to their sons, and they have mixed the holy seed with the people of the lands, and the hand of the Princes and rulers have been chief in this trespass.
 
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Hank77

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Well, what are we to do with God's commandment that no Moabite could enter His assembly - ever?

Deut 23:3An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
This is why I question whether Ruth was a genetic Moabitess.
I am not allowed to post, other than questions and I assume scripture, so I cannot address this issue in this particular forum. I am not a Messianic Jew.
I am sending you a PM, most of which is OT scripture, with a thought of my own.
 
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pat34lee

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Well, what are we to do with God's commandment that no Moabite could enter His assembly - ever?

Deut 23:3An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
This is why I question whether Ruth was a genetic Moabitess.

She wasn't a Moabite, but an Israelite living in Moab.
The local Moabites were killed off in Deut. 2:34
There were Moabites (the tribe) in other areas.
Was Ruth a Moabite? | History of the Twelve Tribes of Israel
 
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Hank77

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The local Moabites were killed off in Deut. 2:34
Deu 2:27 Let me pass through thy land: I will go along by the high way, I will neither turn unto the right hand nor to the left.
Deu 2:28 Thou shalt sell me meat for money, that I may eat; and give me water for money, that I may drink: only I will pass through on my feet;
Deu 2:29 (As the children of Esau which dwell in Seir, and the Moabites which dwell in Ar, did unto me) until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the LORD our God giveth us.

Deu 2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.

Num 21:20 And from Bamoth in the valley, that is in the country of Moab, to the top of Pisgah, which looketh toward Jeshimon.

Num 21:21 And Israel sent messengers unto Sihon king of the Amorites, saying,
Num 21:22 Let me pass through thy land: we will not turn into the fields, or into the vineyards; we will not drink of the waters of the well: but we will go along by the king's high way, until we be past thy borders.
Num 21:23 And Sihon would not suffer Israel to pass through his border: but Sihon gathered all his people together, and went out against Israel into the wilderness: and he came to Jahaz, and fought against Israel.
 
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pat34lee

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Deu 2:27 Let me pass through thy land: I will go along by the high way, I will neither turn unto the right hand nor to the left.
Deu 2:28 Thou shalt sell me meat for money, that I may eat; and give me water for money, that I may drink: only I will pass through on my feet;
Deu 2:29 (As the children of Esau which dwell in Seir, and the Moabites which dwell in Ar, did unto me) until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the LORD our God giveth us.

Deu 2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.

Num 21:20 And from Bamoth in the valley, that is in the country of Moab, to the top of Pisgah, which looketh toward Jeshimon.

Num 21:21 And Israel sent messengers unto Sihon king of the Amorites, saying,
Num 21:22 Let me pass through thy land: we will not turn into the fields, or into the vineyards; we will not drink of the waters of the well: but we will go along by the king's high way, until we be past thy borders.
Num 21:23 And Sihon would not suffer Israel to pass through his border: but Sihon gathered all his people together, and went out against Israel into the wilderness: and he came to Jahaz, and fought against Israel.

Do these verses mean you agree or disagree with my post?
It seems you're proving that Amorites lived in Moab, not Moabites.
 
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Hank77

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Do these verses mean you agree or disagree with my post?
It seems you're proving that Amorites lived in Moab, not Moabites.
They are just the scriptures that I think give important infor. I can't tell you what they say. But here is another one I thought of in relationship to the Moabites existing when Ruth lived with Naomi in Moab and long afterwards.

2Ch 20:1 And it cometh to pass after this, the sons of Moab have come in, and the sons of Ammon, and with them of the peoples, against Jehoshaphat to battle.
 
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Rachel Rachel

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She wasn't a Moabite, but an Israelite living in Moab.
The local Moabites were killed off in Deut. 2:34
There were Moabites (the tribe) in other areas.
Was Ruth a Moabite? | History of the Twelve Tribes of Israel
From the article...

The people understood that Ruth’s blood line came from Tamar is the mother of both Zarah and Pharez – the royal blood line of Judah. They understood that it was this bloodline that was father the Kings of Israel. They also understood that the Messiah would come through that lineage. Notice the reference to Bethelem.

The Messiah was a descendant of Pharez from the line of Judah. He was not a Moabite.
I agree.
 
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tampasteve

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Well, what are we to do with God's commandment that no Moabite could enter His assembly - ever?

Deut 23:3An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
This is why I question whether Ruth was a genetic Moabitess.
There are a few possibilities that could explain it. First, the Torah is explicit in using the masculine form of Maobite, thereby saying that Moabite men could not marry in, but females could. This would also explain your other question and scripture quote. Second, it is also possible that she was not a genetic Moabitess, but rather lived among them and was known as one to the Israelites.
 
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Rachel Rachel

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There are a few possibilities that could explain it. First, the Torah is explicit in using the masculine form of Maobite, thereby saying that Moabite men could not marry in, but females could. This would also explain your other question and scripture quote. Second, it is also possible that she was not a genetic Moabitess, but rather lived among them and was known as one to the Israelites.
Yes, I believe that Ruth was an Israelite living in Moab territory. I don't see how it could have been any other way.
 
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Open Heart

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There are a few possibilities that could explain it. First, the Torah is explicit in using the masculine form of Maobite, thereby saying that Moabite men could not marry in, but females could.
Exactly.
 
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pinacled

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Let's not oversimplify things.

Can we start by saying that the Church has not replaced Israel. The people of Israel have not somehow become useless has beens, cursed to wander the earth, remnants of a past that has no more bearing. No. Rather, Jacob's descendants still have yet a part to play in God's still unfolding plan for salvation. We saw part of it in 1948. We saw part of it in 1967. We keep seeing it. The Children of Israel remain God's firstborn son; "as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of the patriarchs."

So yes, for Jews, Jew stuff IS important. It's about survival as a people. In order for Jews to continue as the people set apart, we must marry in a way that we can form Jewish families and raise Jewish children. If a Jewish man marries a Gentile woman, his children will not be Jews. His entire line is lost to the Children of Israel. If one Jewish man does that, it seems like a small cost to pay for true love, especially if she is a Godly Christian woman. But what if half of all Jewish men did that? Half of the next generation of Jews would simply not exist. And not just that generation, but THEIR children, and their children's children.

When you put it like that, it makes sense. The only reason it wouldn't make sense is if a person just doesn't care if the Jewish people die out.
how many tribes were born of hebrew mothers?
 
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