GOD'S LAW AND THE SABBATH AND FOLLOWING MAN MADE TRADTIONS?

[bekkilyn]

It's a commandment, and yes, it's healthy to follow the commandments I suppose.

As far as not following that commandment to the tee sending us to hell? I honestly don't know, I just know I'm going to try to say on the safe side until I'm convinced otherwise.

We do not need to follow Jesus out of fear of him. If you believe observing the Sabbath is pleasing to Jesus and that he commanded it, then observe it because you *love* him, not because you're scared to death he will punish you or send you to hell if you don't. That's not what his sacrifice was all about. He freed us from the fear and death of the law. Any observance of the law is a loving response to *his* love through the Holy Spirit, and not because we are required to earn our way into his favor. We can't, which is why we needed him to save us in the first place.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We do not need to follow Jesus out of fear of him. If you believe observing the Sabbath is pleasing to Jesus and that he commanded it, then observe it because you *love* him, not because you're scared to death he will punish you or send you to hell if you don't. That's not what his sacrifice was all about. He freed us from the fear and death of the law. Any observance of the law is a loving response to *his* love through the Holy Spirit, and not because we are required to earn our way into his favor. We can't, which is why we needed him to save us in the first place.

Nicely said bekkilyn. It is only through love that anyone can follow Jesus and it is only through God's Word that any of us can find him who first loved us. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit....

I would only add these texts to balance it out as it is good to fear our God as well as love him.....

Psalms 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments5 : his praise endures for ever.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Revelation 14:7
Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[bekkilyn]

Hi bekkilyn

I am repeating the same thing because you seem to think what your saying about calendar changes has relevance to the creation week's definition of a day and a week and God's 4th commandment (Genesis 1:1-5; Genesis 2:1-3; Genesis 20:8-11).

The facts are these. A day and a week has been clearly defined in God's Word.....

Our human calendars have NOT changed the days and the weeks. We still have days and we still have 7 of them that make up one week. The calendars have only ever changed how many weeks and days we have in a year. This does not effect day and week observance. The days and weeks have always been the same and have their origin in the creation week. The Sabbath has been observed for thousands of years by the Jews who followed God's 4th commandment and still do today. Can't get much clearer than that no matter how many times you want to say the same thing. A day is a day as defined in God's Word and a week is a week as defined in God's Word and his commandments are the same as they have always been and is what is expected today if we love and follow Jesus (John 14:15).

God's Sabbath is not a tradition it is a commandment given to us by God as a memorial of creation (Exodus 20:8-11). You break it, you commit sin, the same as if you break any of the other commandments of God (James 2:8-12).

Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Many have forsaken or been deceived into breaking God's 4th commandment and replaced it with Sunday worship. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we believe God or man?

Well if you insist on following a human calendar, then that's certainly your prerogative, but there is still no scriptural evidence that God followed the very same human calendar or that his time is the same as our time at creation. If you believe that people thousands and thousands of years ago were using the exact same calendar we are using now, then you are ignoring historical evidence to the contrary. Even today, we are using a *human* calendar and it is only religious tradition that specifies Saturday as God's seventh day, when in reality, we are limiting God to our own understanding of time and creation.

I'm not attempting to try to talk people out of observing a Saturday Sabbath if that's what they feel they need to do, but it's not going to be what saves or condemns them.

 

[bekkilyn]

Of course it is a day that match's up with our day ......

Genesis 1
1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3, And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. AND THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WAS THE FIRST DAY.

There was no sun at the time, so there was no *sun*set or *sun*rise so exactly how much time passed between God's evening and morning on that day? Could have been a thousand of our current day years for all we really know. So no, there is no scriptural evidence that shows that God's day at creation is the same as our day today. God's time is not our time.

 

[christianforumsuser]

A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day to Him

I'd rather express myself honestly, but have ease and pleasure
We read by what's in us and on our mind
Else we would not perceive by whom it's intended...or how we can hear it
To act godly is not to become godly? One's own nature inside is either good or bad
And then every expression by body or tongue is perceived by men and natural consequence.
Jesus meant not be entirely caught up in the idea of it without actually forgetting to eat and believe
As even some alcohol would help digestion

God loves His creation
But they fell into godless disobedience
And through traditions men had hardened hearts in age for a reason
But people who lose their ego die in Him and are resurrected
We're clay.
There's good information a child can find in Him, to grow into His people
Not some world of strangers disobedient and in such wars chasing things that bring pleasure
He loves His people
There needs to be forgiveness in Him. We can get so caught up in what Sabbath is to the world losing what it is to Him...while all the scholars debate and the hungry people are left to go elsewhere

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well if you insist on following a human calendar, then that's certainly your prerogative, but there is still no scriptural evidence that God followed the very same human calendar or that his time is the same as our time at creation. If you believe that people thousands and thousands of years ago were using the exact same calendar we are using now, then you are ignoring historical evidence to the contrary. Even today, we are using a *human* calendar and it is only religious tradition that specifies Saturday as God's seventh day, when in reality, we are limiting God to our own understanding of time and creation.
I'm not attempting to try to talk people out of observing a Saturday Sabbath if that's what they feel they need to do, but it's not going to be what saves or condemns them.

I am not insisting on following a human calendar. We all should follow God's calendar as already shown through His Word

Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. Many have forsaken or been deceived into breaking God's 4th commandment and replaced it with Sunday worship. In times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth has come calls all men everywhere to repent and believe His Word.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we believe God or man?

 

[bekkilyn]

I follow God's calendar as already shown through His Word so should you

God's Word (Jesus) has thankfully spared me from the need to try to use scripture as a heavenly date book, especially considering that he hasn't chosen to reveal the length of his days to us.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There was no sun at the time, so there was no *sun*set or *sun*rise so exactly how much time passed between God's evening and morning on that day? Could have been a thousand of our current day years for all we really know. So no, there is no scriptural evidence that shows that God's day at creation is the same as our day today. God's time is not our time.

What does it matter if God had already defined the evening and the morning in Genesis 1:1-5 and a week in Genesis 2:1-3? It is really not that difficult. We believe God's Word or we do not.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

God's Word (Jesus) has thankfully spared me from the need to try to use scripture as a heavenly date book, especially considering that he hasn't chosen to reveal the length of his days to us.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)

Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4)

You can't separate Jesus from God's Word because he is the Word and says....

John 8
31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32, And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

You cannot know him who loves all if you do not know His Word and do not follow him who calls you....

 

[bekkilyn]

What does it matter if God had already defined the evening and the morning in Genesis 1:1-5 and a week in Genesis 2:1-3? It is really not the difficult. We believe God's Word or we do not.

Of course it matters if we want to make sure we are observing the exact same day that God did. Otherwise, we're just using our human-created concept of seventh day.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Of course it matters if we want to make sure we are observing the exact same day that God did. Otherwise, we're just using our human-created concept of seventh day.

Sorry bekkilyn, I do not understand your confusion on the subject it is pretty straight forward to me as shown in God's Words definition of a day and a week (Genesis 1:1-5; Genesis 2:1-3).

No calendar has ever changed the days and the number of days within the week. Only the number of days and weeks in the year. This is irrelevant to the weekly observance of the 4th commandments because the number of days in the week have never changed.

God's people have kept the 7th Day Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11) according to the commandment for 1000's of years unchanged and still do today.

 

[bekkilyn]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)

Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4)

You can't separate Jesus from God's Word because he is the Word and says....

John 8
31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32, And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

You cannot know him who loves all if you do not know His Word and do not follow him who calls you....

Yes, I had just stated that Jesus was God's Word. He's still not also a datebook.

 

[bekkilyn]

Sorry bekkilyn, I do not understand your confusion on the subject it is pretty straight forward to me as shown in God's Words definition of a day and a week (Genesis 1:1-5; Genesis 2:1-3).

No calendar has ever changed the days and the number of days within the week. Only the number of days and weeks in the year. This is irrelevant to the weekly observance of the 4th commandments because the number of days in the week have never changed.

God's people have kept the 7th Day Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11) according to the commandment for 1000's of years unchanged and still do today.

I'm not at all confused. There is no scriptural evidence that clearly shows that *Saturday* is the seventh day of God's creation. It's simply not there, our current-day calendar did not exist, and even Jewish scholars are not in perfect agreement outside of their own tradition. Many calendars didn't even use seven day weeks at all, and others were lunar-based.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm not at all confused. There is no scriptural evidence that clearly shows that *Saturday* is the seventh day of God's creation. It's simply not there, our current-day calendar did not exist, and even Jewish scholars are not in perfect agreement outside of their own tradition. Many calendars didn't even use seven day weeks at all, and others were lunar-based.

There is plenty of scripture, but for some reason you cannot see it and I do not know why........

Genesis 1
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WERE THE FIRST DAY.

There are seven days in the creation week..............................

Genesis 2
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were FINISHED, and all the host of them.
2, And on the SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK WHICH HE HAD MADE; and HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORK WHICH HE HAD MADE.
3, And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND SANCTIFIED IT: BECAUSE IN IT HE HAD RESTED FORM ALL HIS WORK WHICH GOD CREATED AND MADE.

The 7th Day of the week we are commanded by God to keep it as a Holy day.........

Exodus 20
8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY?> 11, FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND HALLOWED <made Holy set apart>IT.

Yep plenty of scripture there.......

PS: Even Sola Luna calendar as well as the other calenders are not effected by the day and the week definition of God's Word and never has been. Once again the calendar changes have only ever effected the number of days and weeks in the year not the number of days in a week.

 

[bekkilyn]

There is but for some reason you cannot see it and I do not know why........

Genesis 1
4, And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And THE EVENING AND THE MORNING WERE THE FIRST DAY.

There are seven days in the creation week..............................

Genesis 2
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were FINISHED, and all the host of them.
2, And on the SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK WHICH HE HAD MADE; and HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORK WHICH HE HAD MADE.
3, And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND SANCTIFIED IT: BECAUSE IN IT HE HAD RESTED FORM ALL HIS WORK WHICH GOD CREATED AND MADE.

The 7th Day of the week we are commanded by God to keep it as a Holy day.........

Exodus 20
8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY?> 11, FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND HALLOWED <made Holy set apart>IT.

Yep plenty of scripture there.......

PS: Even Sola Luna calendar as well as the other calenders are not effected by the day and the week definition of God's Word and never has been. Once again the calendar changes have only ever effected the number of days and weeks in the year not the number of days in a week.

They would affect what day the week *starts* and therefore would have a different seventh day than some other calendar would have. So even if they were observing the Sabbath on the seventh day, it could be three days later than your Saturday, and neither your Saturday or their three days later seventh day may match up with God's seventh day as his day may not only be on a completely different day, but also may have lasted for thousands of years.

In fact, our whole entire lifetime could be a Sabbath day if we happened to be born seven of God's days after his creation day of rest.

There is nothing in scripture that makes *Saturday* a mandatory Sabbath day. Saturday is traditionally the seventh day based on our current calendar system, but there was no such thing as a Saturday in early biblical times. There is simply no way we can show through scripture that our current Saturday was the same as God's seventh day at creation or that they even lasted the same amount of time.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

They would affect what day the week *starts* and therefore would have a different seventh day than some other calendar would have. So even if they were observing the Sabbath on the seventh day, it could be three days later than your Saturday, and neither your Saturday or their three days later seventh day may match up with God's seventh day as his day may not only be on a completely different day, but also may have lasted for thousands of years.

In fact, our whole entire lifetime could be a Sabbath day if we happened to be born seven of God's days after his creation day of rest.

There is nothing in scripture that makes *Saturday* a mandatory Sabbath day. Saturday is traditionally the seventh day based on our current calendar system, but there was no such thing as a Saturday in early biblical times. There is simply no way we can show through scripture that our current Saturday was the same as God's seventh day at creation or that they even lasted the same amount of time.

Really? So Jesus and the Apostles did not keep the Sabbath and all Israel that followed the Sabbath from the days of the Apostles to this present day? Your statement disagrees with scripture because Jesus and the Apostles and Israel have always kept the 7th Day Sabbath unbroken to this present day.

 

[klutedavid]

Well if you insist on following a human calendar, then that's certainly your prerogative, but there is still no scriptural evidence that God followed the very same human calendar or that his time is the same as our time at creation. If you believe that people thousands and thousands of years ago were using the exact same calendar we are using now, then you are ignoring historical evidence to the contrary. Even today, we are using a *human* calendar and it is only religious tradition that specifies Saturday as God's seventh day, when in reality, we are limiting God to our own understanding of time and creation.

I'm not attempting to try to talk people out of observing a Saturday Sabbath if that's what they feel they need to do, but it's not going to be what saves or condemns them.

Hello bekkilyn.

Sunday worship is the mark of the beast during the end times.

It really does matter which day you go to church!

 

[Kenny'sID]

We do not need to follow Jesus out of fear of him.

Of course we do, after I saw what he did to those goats, I'd darn well better fear him/God. Mathew 25:31 -46. Good idea to stay on his good side/do as he commanded.

That sounds pretty and all but the reality is, threats of Hell is God's idea, and that part is all about fear so yeah, since Christ is a duplicate of God think I'll fear..

It's a lot like, we love our Dads but if we act up...watch out..pretty simple concept.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[bekkilyn]

Really? So Jesus and the Apostles did not keep the Sabbath and all Israel that followed the Sabbath from the days of the Apostles to this present day? Your statement disagrees with scripture because Jesus and the Apostles and Israel have always kept the 7th Day Sabbath unbroken to this present day.

Jesus and the apostles kept what was traditionally the Sabbath day of their time. They were also Jews and the Old Covenant requirements of Mosaic law were still in effect as Jesus had not yet fulfilled the purpose of the law on the cross. It is still not scriptural proof that God seventh day at the time of creation is the exact same seventh day that was observed at later time periods.

The Israelites did not keep the Sabbath unbroken since the time of creation. Even if the patriarchs before Egyptian slavery kept a Sabbath day, which is debatable, they certainly didn't observe it during their 400 year enslavement, and we do not know the calendars that they used during periods of time after the enslavement, so there is still no scriptural proof that the seventh day they observed is our Saturday and not some other day.

The Jews observe Saturday because it has been their tradition to do so for the past few hundred years since the calendars that include a day called Saturday have been in place, but even their scholars are not in agreement concerning the calendars, so they seem to consider their tradition sufficient for their own belief.

 

[bekkilyn]

Hello bekkilyn.

Sunday worship is the mark of the beast during the end times.

It really does matter which day you go to church!

Yes, I am familiar with this belief, but I am not in agreement that our salvation is based on which day we decide to go to church. If we could earn our own way to heaven by going to church on a particular day, then Jesus's death on the cross was meaningless.