GOD'S LAW AND THE SABBATH AND FOLLOWING MAN MADE TRADTIONS?

[FreeAtLast]

The Bible clearly says the Sabbath is a shadow. Anyone reading that verse and not believing it, is not looking for the truth, but a way to reinforce their theology.

Yes, that is exactly what we see in this thread.

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

So, we see the Law-keepers passing judgement on born again Believers in Yeshua (violating Scripture!) for not keeping the Law of Moses when these things were only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Yeshua, the substance! The substance being that Yeshua gives us spiritual rest and communion with the G-d, not just physical as the Law of Moses did, and we are to rest in HIM.

Hebrews 4
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, G-d would not have spoken of another day later on.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, you are confused
NO, I wrote clearly that it is YOU who are posting YOUR words and not G-d's over and over and over. You keep saying the same thing, and I have proven they are FALSE over and over and over.

Well I must be confused here is me thinking all this time you are posting yourself over the Word and God and not providing any scriptures that tell us that God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day....

I do not believe the posts you have provided have proven anything. Even the scripture you finally posted in post # 256 above refutes everything you have provided scripture wise.

You have NOT posted ONE Scripture which says that Sunday worship of G-d is against His commandments, and yet you keep saying that you have. Sir, that is falsehood (which is sin BTW).Shame on you!

Friend God's Word is not falsehood. Sin is the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; Romans 3:20). James tells us that if we break one of the ten we are guilty of breaking all of God's Law and stand before God guilty of sin (James 2:8-12). The 4th commandment is one of the ten commandments (Exodus 20:8-11). Those that continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27).

Sunday worship is a tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God (the fruit of love). Many have forsaken God's 4th commandment in place of Sunday worship. Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man breaking the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Now please tell me how I have not said the truth and answer this post with scripture......

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God?.

Maybe you did not see MY reply to your post where you simply listed a bunch of Scriptures that do not apply at all, yet you say they do. Yes, sir, you are definitely confused and I pray for you to see the truth.

You are referring to Matthew 15:3-9? Yet you must have ignored the reply showing the scriptures that disagree with your interpretation; see post # 234. If any of us ignore the Word of God it does not make God's Word go away. It is God's Word that judges all of us in the last days (myself included). Therefore who should we believe God or man? Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of man or the Word of God? Jesus says if we follow the traditions of man breaking the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

God's Word says very clearly those living a life in unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom and have not seen him or known the ones who loves all because they are still in their sins (Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:2-4; 1 John 3:3-9; James 2:8-12)

May I ask you another question? Do you believe someone who is professing to be a christian that is living a life of known unrepentant sin is in a saved state before God or an unsaved state?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

And I told you over and over that until YOU produce ONE itty bitty Scripture which PROVES your false statement that Sunday worship is against G-d's commands, we cannot move forward to any other questions. So, put up, or well, you know. Answer mine and I'll answer yours. Simple as that. I'm still waiting for you to make your case by Scripture, and until you do, I will not answer your questions. The Scriptures I posted prove once and for all, that your claim is false. That is what they show, it has nothing to do with your question to me which there is not reason to address even you prove YOUR claim, which you cannot. Let's stop with these games, shall we? You know very well that we are not friends. And you know very well that instead of using Scripture to prove your point, you simply proved that you cannot do so and so you deflect. You know very well that I never set out to answer your question because there is NO question you can ask since you have NOT shown through Scripture that Sunday worship is against G-d's commands. What you have done is again, show us your church's false teaching over G-d's word. Shame on you! I suggest that you go to the L-rd Yeshua in humbleness and repent for these actions and He will forgive you because since Yeshua has come, we are not under the Law any longer and because of Yeshua's grace: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9) I suggest and hope and pray that you avail yourself of this grace and forgiveness. Actually, that is a lie. You have YET to prove this with any Scripture and I have refuted it several times with Scripture alone. Why are you following the traditions of men (and false prophets) and not G-d? Why not follow G-d instead? I will give you yet ANOTHER chance to prove your false claim by Scripture alone. Show us all, ONE Scripture that plainly and clearly shows that Sunday worship is against G-d's commands. Just one. Your whole argument rests on that and you have not been able to prove it. So, here is your chance to show WHOM you are really following, man or G-d.

Hello friend,

All I am hearing from you is your opinions and words over the Word of God. Who should we follow the Word of God or the Word of man? ......................

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged.

John 12
47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48, He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Only God's Word is true my friend. I don't see any in your post.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.......

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Bible clearly says the Sabbath is a shadow. Anyone reading that verse and not believing it, is not looking for the truth, but a way to reinforce their theology. My typing and forgetting to edit it made me say something I did not mean to say. Of course the Sabbath is important or God would not have created it, but there is no commandment to attend a worship service on any day of he week Saturday and Sunday worship are both traditional. You can't get away from what the Bible clearly teaches---the Sabbath is only a shadow.

Really? Or are they looking for an excuse to follow a man made tradition that breaks the commandment of God?

Please by all means where does it say in the scriptures that God's 4th commandment is now Abolished and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day?

How can the weekly Sabbath be a Shadow of anything if it was a part of the FINISHED WORK of creation and there was no sin in the world (Genesis 2:1-3) ?

How many different kinds of Sabbaths are referred to in the bible that are NOT weekly Sabbaths?

Here are the scriptures that answer the questions above if your interested linked....

God's people had already had the Sabbath and had been practicing it for over 4000 years by the time we get to the New Testament. You think that if God's Sabbath was now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day there would be some scripture in the NT regarding this but the fact is, there is no such scripture.

God's people had already had the 4th commandment and all the other commandments ....

So what did Jesus and the Apostles teach about God's Sabbath? Surely they would have told us that God's 4th commandment was Abolished and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day?

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

Ok goodnight friends late my time chat more latter......

Hope this helps you with your bible study.......

 

[FreeAtLast]

Well I must be confused here is me thinking all this time you are posting yourself over the Word and God and not providing any scriptures that tell us that God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day....

Yes, it is evident that you are confused and I have cleared this up over and over again to help you understand. I pray your eyes will be opened and you will stop being confused and see the truth.

Friend God's Word is not falsehood.

G-d's word is truth, but you are not posting G-d's word, you have YET to produce ONE Scripture which plainly proves that Sunday worship is against the commands of G-d as you claim. You have only posted your church's teaching, which IS man's opinion.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Really? Or are they looking for an excuse to follow a man made tradition that breaks the commandment of God?

No, as I pointed out via G-d's word, worshiping Him on the 1st day of the week is neither man-made tradition, nor does it break the commandments of G-d.

Again, I invite you to post Scriptures that prove otherwise. What have posted does not address or support your claim

 

[bekkilyn]

I'd kind of like to see some scripture that God was using human-created calendars during Creation.

I confess that I accidentally worshiped God this morning when I woke up. Old habits die hard and all that. I'll try to repent and do better and wait for Saturn's Day so that he won't be upset I'm thinking of glorifying him on all the wrong days.

On a good note, at least it's not Tuesday. He really hates it when we worship him on Tuesdays. Just ask Tom.

 

[listed]

Depends what you mean by being "Under the Law" what does it mean to you?

God's Word says in that context to be "Under the Law" means to be guilty before God of sin which is breaking God's Law (Romans 2:12-13; Romans 3:9; Romans 3:19; 1 John 3:4)

If a person can break the law they are ruled by law. That means they are under its control.

 

[listed]

Well it does the two great ones are summed up with all of God's Law and the prophets but these two commandments are not new they originated from the Old Testament summing up God's Law and this is where Jesus was quoting from. (Matthew 22:36-40; Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) and this the promise of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10-12)



The Holy Spirit is not separate from God's Word they are one. God's Word tells us that if someone is living in a life of known unrepentant sin they do not have God's Spirit and do not know God (Hebrews 10:26-27; Acts 5:32; 1 John 2:2-4)



I think God's Word would disagree with you Bob, because God's Law is the standard in the OT and the NT and the judgement to come. It gives all a knowledge of what sin is and righteousness (good and evil) (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; Ex 20:1-17; Hebrews 8:10-12; James 2:8-12).

If you have no Law you have no knowledge of sin. If you have no knowledge of sin you have no need of a Saviour. If you have no need of a Saviour you have no need of salvation. If you have no need of salvation you are lost and still in your sins and do not know God. (1 John 3:3-9).

This statement is bogus. I wonder if this referenced passage has been read and understood. All things considered it also condemns the poster. This isn't an attack on the poster. It's merely pointing out facts.

 

[Kenny'sID]

My typing and forgetting to edit it made me say something I did not mean to say. Of course the Sabbath is important or God would not have created it, but there is no commandment to attend a worship service on any day of he week Saturday and Sunday worship are both traditional.

I never claimed we had to attend any worship service on the Sabbath, I know I don't, I rest, as a general rule.

You can't get away from what the Bible clearly teaches---the Sabbath is only a shadow.

A Shadow of what? Where is the rest of that verse? Using partial scripture allows us to create a selective understanding of the bible, not the truth...something people have been doing forever in order to twist the truth to their liking.

 

[Kenny'sID]

My challenge to all you Law-Keepers, SDAs etc.

Please show ONE SCRIPTURE that shows that Sunday worship of G-d is against His commandments and is thus is sin.

Please, no commentary, no opinions and interpretations. Just pure, clear Scripture that proves your claim that born again Believers cannot or should not worship the King of Kings on the 1st day of the week as the early church did, and that doing so breaks G-d's commandments.

Why challenge us to something that we never claimed was Biblical? Or if you think we did claim such a thing, please take this opportunity to point out where the claim was made.. I honestly feel you chose to see that so you could present the impossible to win challenge, then see your end of this as right, but there was no such claim. However, still giving benefit of the doubt...show us.

You can worship God 7 days a week if you like....the sabbath is a day of rest and to be kept holy.

As far as I know, all services on Saturday/Sunday are traditions of man, or not biblical. I personally feel, it's too much like work to go through the hassle of attending a conventional church service on the Sabbath...it flies in the face of "rest". So yeah, go to church on Sunday and rest on Saturday...sounds good to me anyway.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Why challenge us to something that we never claimed was Biblical?

Shalom Kenny,

Have you not read the OP and the authors posts, especially to me (as well as others) in this thread?
This is the point, it HAS been argued, by the Sabbath-keeper ad nauseam, that Sunday worship is breaking G-d's commands, a sin and the Scriptures state this clearly. If you read back several pages, you will see that I have been asking from the beginning (in reply to those claims) to see that Scriptural proof and was told repeatedly that it has been provided. Thus the challenge to put up, or...

Or if you think we did claim such a thing please take this opportunity to point out where the claim was made..

All you need do is start reading backwards from here, and you'll see them. Please do so.

I honestly feel you chose to see that so you could present the impossible to win challenge, then see your end of this as right, but there was no such claim. However, still giving benefit of the doubt...show us.

What a rude, nasty thing to assume and accuse. Calling me a liar with disingenuous motives. And by posting this dreck, you are NOT giving me any "benefit of the doubt" but accusing me publicly. Is this what the Mods call flaming and goading? Maybe we should seek them out on this false personal accusation?

 

[Kenny'sID]

All you need do is start reading backwards from here, and you'll see them. Please do so.

And all you have to do is show me, simple.

What a rude, nasty thing to assume and accuse. Calling me a liar with disingenuous motives. And by posting this dreck, you are NOT giving me any "benefit of the doubt" but accusing me publicly. Is this what the Mods call flaming and goading? Maybe we should seek them out on this false personal accusation?

Never threaten me, just do what you must. Virtually anything here can be seen as flaming, see you are doing that to me right now if I choose to see it that way.

People often get angry often when cornered, and what I said was something I "feel"..simple observation of possible psychology involved that I was willing to share with you. Some can deal with that type thing and maybe get something from it, if only eventually, others..not so much. Was I right? we haven't determined that yet. Also, I was clear benefit of the doubt was the rule there/putting the possibility on hold.

Some feel the need to take things to the point of vindication and some would never do such a thing. They either offer defense for their argument as I asked you to do, or they settle with the fact they have no defense for what they claimed, and don't try to punish the opposing party because they cornered themselves.

Kind of a creed to me, and I think others here, not to report an opposing party no matter what they say in debate. We'd never have someone removed from real life because we chose to be offended due to disagreement or losing an argument, so we won't do it here, but that's just me/us.

Some choose to handle the heat and not run out of the kitchen.

I've often wondered how Christ would fare on a Christian forum.

Thanks for bringing it up. Not trying to change what you should do, have at it, but had some comments in general on the subject that needed saying regardless.

 

[christianforumsuser]

And all you have to do is show me, simple.



Never threaten me, just do what you must. Virtually anything here can be seen as flaming, see you are doing that to me right now if I choose to see it that way.

People often get angry often when cornered, and what I said was something I "think"..simple observation of possible psychology involved. Was I right, we haven't determined that yet. Also, I was clear benefit of the doubt was the rule there/putting the possibility on hold.

Some feel the need to take things to the point of vindication and some would never do such a thing. They either offer defense for their argument as I asked you to do, or they settle with the fact they have no defense for what they claimed, and don't try to punish the opposing party because they cornered themselves.

Kind of a creed to me, and I think others here, not to report an opposing party no matter what they say in debate. We'd never have someone removed from real life because we chose to be offended due to disagreement or losing an argument, so we won't do it here, but that's just me/us.

I've often wondered how Christ would fare on a Christian forum.

Thanks for bringing it up, that needed saying regardless.

People have their idea of what's nice and tend to see what's already on their mind
Some have a bias against rock and roll or sex or anything that isn't super holy voice singing hymns and smiling like on drugs (but hate drugs)
If you talked and acted like their culture they'd say they approve of you as nice and holy, thinking they themselves are and know how to judge/gauge

Even if you do the same things they do they see you as a foreigner and stranger and enemy who isn't righteous to speak accusations...look at the verse on those accusing the woman of adultery
But in fact they were adulterers in their hearts both in flesh and spirit

There's lots of people and a label and title...words have meanings and context and people have associations
What do you want?
Enter His rest

 

[Kenny'sID]

What do you want?

I want to simply do as scripture has directed, and be obedient to God/Christ...what do you want?

 

[christianforumsuser]

I want to simply do as scripture has directed, and be obedient to God/Christ...what do you want?

God and His promises

 

[FreeAtLast]

And all you have to do is show me, simple.

It's simpler and faster for you to just read back. Instead of me going back and copy / pasting ALL the posts, all you need do is scroll back and read. If you really want to know the facts, you can simply and easily do that. But, if you're not interested in the facts then don't accuse me of being a liar.


"Never threaten me, just do what you must. Virtually anything here can be seen as flaming, see you are doing that to me right now if I choose to see it that way.[/quote]

Seriously? Wow, you insult me, and I ask if that is allowed and YOU get an attitude? Your unwarranted and inappropriate "observation" is an out and out insult, and you cannot justify it, period. And no, after you insulted me, just saying you "gave me the benefit of the doubt" does not negate the insult. If you REALLY gave me the benefit of the doubt, you would scroll back and see the facts for yourself and not post insults publicly without even bothering to check.

Your creed not to report anyone is convenient, when it was YOU who insulted me for no reason.

So yeah, I'll do what I need to do and I have no further desire to interact with you. Have a nice life.

 

[christianforumsuser]

[/quote][/QUOTE]
I haven't really been watching what's going on, but general advice when communication is having problems understanding and each person thinks they're right and the other does something wrong or doesn't listen/believe, as with different backgrounds/groups, you can say the same thing a million times or show it but people don't want to admit wrong and lose. As long as they're attached to their pride and tradition, not God.
People can go on all day getting bigger war and get offended and point fingers and toss fire. Everyone needs to be seeking the same good purpose in Him. Priorities and order
From the heart

 

[Kenny'sID]

God and His promises

No idea what that means.

 

[christianforumsuser]

No idea what that means.

God knows what He meant when He said it