Desiring to be rich is a snare.

Ron Gurley

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Ecclesiastes 5:10[The Folly of Riches]
He who loves money will not be satisfied with money,
nor he who loves abundance with its income.
This too is vanity.

1 Timothy 3:3
not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and
some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

2 Timothy 3:2
For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,

Hebrews 13:5
Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have;
for He Himself has said, “I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,”
 
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Wordkeeper

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1 Timothy 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

Any thoughts on this scripture?

If your understanding is incomplete, you will end up tormenting even youself, leading you to to torment others, till you reach that full understanding.

The relevant teachings are:

Choose between being self seeking or being unselfish, serving yourself or serving God.

Matthew 6:24
24"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.


Luke 14:33
33"So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.


Choosing God is a challenge, so decide if you have the strength or if you need time.

Luke 14:26-33
26“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? 29“Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, 30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ 31“Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32“Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. 33“So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.


Acts 5:4
4“While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”


If you take time, you can prepare for the Day.

Luke 16:8-13
8“And his master praised the unrighteous manager because he had acted shrewdly; for the sons of this age are more shrewd in relation to their own kind than the sons of light. 9“And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.

10“He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much. 11“Therefore if you have not been faithful in the use of unrighteous wealth, who will entrust the true riches to you? 12“And if you have not been faithful in the use of that which is another’s, who will give you that which is your own? 13“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”



On the Day, you will be given the Kingdom of God, God’s presence with you, which makes you fruitful, able to gather His sheep:

Luke 12:22-34
22And He said to His disciples, “For this reason I say to you, do not worry about your life, as to what you will eat; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. 23“For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. 24“Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap; they have no storeroom nor barn, and yet God feeds them; how much more valuable you are than the birds! 25“And which of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life’s span? 26“If then you cannot do even a very little thing, why do you worry about other matters? 27“Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; but I tell you, not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 28“But if God so clothes the grass in the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, how much more will He clothe you? You men of little faith! 29“And do not seek what you will eat and what you will drink, and do not keep worrying. 30“For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things. 31“But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added to you. 32“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom.

33“Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys. 34“For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.


Luke 11:23
He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.


Summary
There is no righteous type of wealth: all wealth is unrighteous. Even working for food and clothes. If you want to be a disciple, one of the few in the small flock, who is given the Kingdom of God, His presence, the Finger of God, by means of which you can perform signs and convince men to leave serving Mammon, enter rest in the Promise Land, the you must yourself first come out of Egypt.

If you do not have the strength to finish what you start, you can ask for time. Whilst your goods are not sold, you are free to do whatever you want with it. However if you are not faithful with what belongs to God, by making friends with those already in the Kingdom, using unrighteous mammon, supporting those who have left Egypt to serve the Lord, then how can you be trusted with ownership of the Kingdom? No help will go unrewarded, even a cup of water will be accounted as credit due you. And those who support a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward.
 
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RaymondG

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oh, i didn't know that i was that wrong. Perhaps you could explain to me why Paul teaches Timothy to be content with food and clothing, and to flee from the desire to be rich?
Those who are always right never considers themselves to be wrong.

Let me ask you a question..... Lets say that I am rich....and I have sons....and like a good father, I give them whatever they ask for, that their joy may be full. I tell them to just say what they want and they will get it.

Do you think that my sons would have a desire to be rich? Do you think that they would have a desire or want for anything....or would they know that everything is theirs already? Now how would it make me feel as their father, knowing that I am rich...and everything i have is theirs......yet they still desire to be rich? How would i feel if they coveted what someone else has under these circumstances?
It would not make any sense whatsoever to desire to be something that you already are, nor to want what someone else has when you have everything already!

And please...dont get mad when someone else gets a party and a fat calf.....because you have everything you want already! My sons would not and need not desire to be rich nor desire to have what anyone else has. And it would upset me as a father to see this.

Now are you a Son? Do you understand why it is important to be content and not desire to be rich? Do we want to anger the Father?
 
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Those who are always right never considers themselves to be wrong.

Let me ask you a question..... Lets say that I am rich....and I have sons....and like a good father, I give them whatever they ask for, that their joy may be full. I tell them to just say what they want and they will get it.

Do you think that my sons would have a desire to be rich? Do you think that they would have a desire or want for anything....or would they know that everything is theirs already? Now how would it make me feel as their father, knowing that I am rich...and everything i have is theirs......yet they still desire to be rich? How would i feel if they coveted what someone else has under these circumstances?
It would not make any sense whatsoever to desire to be something that you already are, nor to want what someone else has when you have everything already!

And please...dont get mad when someone else gets a party and a fat calf.....because you have everything you want already! My sons would not and need not desire to be rich nor desire to have what anyone else has. And it would upset me as a father to see this.

Now are you a Son? Do you understand why it is important to be content and not desire to be rich? Do we want to anger the Father?
I have no idea what you are saying.
 
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RaymondG

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So you just insult me instead of explaining your post?
Didnt mean any insult. Im not sure I am able to explain in a way you would understand...This is the second post you didnt understand....And you never say what it is that confuses you or which parts. No questions, just Statements.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Didnt mean any insult. Im not sure I am able to explain in a way you would understand...This is the second post you didnt understand....And you never say what it is that confuses you or which parts. No questions, just Statements.
I have often stated that bread in Scripture is code for revelation, signs used to give confidence to Israel that the speaker is a prophet, God's representative, sent to bless God's people, by explaining His requirements to them.


So when Jesus refuses to give bread to the Syro- Phoenician women, He is being righteous. For the sake of righteousness, He underwent baptism. For the sake of righteousness, sticking to the plan, bread must be given only to those under covenant.


This bread is from Heaven, from God, so although Moses is appointed as God's representative, the source of the signs is God. So it was not Moses who gave bread, but God who gave the real bread from Heaven.


It is obvious from the statement that those who ate the same bread as Joshua and Caleb did not profit from it means their reaction was not the same, was not correct. They took spiritual food from the Rock, ie. witnessed the same signs as Joshua, which confirmed the message that they should turn from seeking self interest and concentrate on being a blessing to the world, their destiny, but did not believe. That was sad, because not all Israel is Israel, the real Israel being identified by belief, just as Abraham believed God and was certified. Because of their unbelief, God was adamant that they would not receive what was destined to be received by Abraham's descendants, children of the promise.


When Jesus was sent by God to call Israel out of Egypt, the life of self seeking she was stuck in, just as previous prophets had been sent to turn Israel away from bending her knees to Mammon, the process of giving signs, which Messiah was said to perform to confirm his identity and his mission, the Pharisees protested that the prostitutes and the taxpayers, those cut off, were being given a feast with a fatted calf.


Jesus stated that they were “returnees”, hostages rescued from Satan. The “feast” was a celebration for the turning back to God, the changing of mind, the meta noia. The “Kingdom” belonged to the first born, Israel. Those who never turned to other worldviews and philosophies (who were not tax collectors and prostitutes!) would see the “Kingdom”, the “wedding feast”. They would be hardened, temporarily, so that God's sheep from the other flock could be included BUT when the required number of Gentiles were gathered, Israel would again be sensitized to receive God's gospel.


So to use the parable of the prodigal to teach against anger against Baal worship is a bit misplaced, don't you think?
 
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RaymondG

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So to use the parable of the prodigal to teach against anger against Baal worship is a bit misplaced, don't you think?

I did not speak on the prodigal son. I made reference to the son who had everything, but still wanted what the returning son was getting. This was not necessary since everything the Father had was His already. No need to desire what was being given to another.

Anger is not one of the fruits of the spirit. When God shows you His will, you are grateful for the blessing of getting understanding from God. And you are understanding that all are not given this blessing. When you become angry that someone else doesnt get the same interpretation as yourself, this stems from a sense of pride resulting from the attainment of self knowledge through study and reasoning of the carnal mind.....which cannot understand the things of the spirit.

"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

When something is given to you, you are not angry that the another has not received the same gift.
 
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Wordkeeper

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I did not speak on the prodigal son. I made reference to the son who had everything, but still wanted what the returning son was getting. This was not necessary since everything the Father had was His already. No need to desire what was being given to another.

Anger is not one of the fruits of the spirit. When God shows you His will, you are grateful for the blessing of getting understanding from God. And you are understanding that all are not given this blessing. When you become angry that someone else doesnt get the same interpretation as yourself, this stems from a sense of pride resulting from the attainment of self knowledge through study and reasoning of the carnal mind.....which cannot understand the things of the spirit.

"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

When something is given to you, you are not angry that the another has not received the same gift.
Well, if you are unnecessarily conflating the lesson of not to be angry with someone who is being blessed with spiritual plenty ( illustrated by the parable) and the lesson of not being angry with someone who is being BURDENED with material wealth (illustrated nowhere), you shouldn't be surprised if your posts confuse readers.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Where your treasure is, so is your heart.
Correct. So let's ask God for terms of peace, time to gather strength so that we can give all our earthly riches to the poor and become disciples of Jesus.

In the meantime, let's be wise with our unrighteous mammon, by using it to make friends with those already in the Kingdom, because if even a cup of water to the least of Jesus's brothers is rewarded, imagine the reward given to those who help a prophet in prison.

And also, let's help those in the dark with correct interpretation of the plan of God, by teaching it, through doing both of the above, in addition to words.
 
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RaymondG

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Well, if you are unnecessarily conflating the lesson of not to be angry with someone who is being blessed with spiritual plenty ( illustrated by the parable) and the lesson of not being angry with someone who is being BURDENED with material wealth (illustrated nowhere), you shouldn't be surprised if your posts confuse readers.
Thank you for making that clear.
 
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RaymondG

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Correct. So let's ask God for terms of peace, time to gather strength so that we can give all our earthly riches to the poor and become disciples of Jesus.

In the meantime, let's be wise with our unrighteous mammon, by using it to make friends with those already in the Kingdom, because if even a cup of water to the least of Jesus's brothers is rewarded, imagine the reward given to those who help a prophet in prison.

And also, let's help those in the dark with correct interpretation of the plan of God, by teaching it, through doing both of the above, in addition to words.
Using mammon to make friends with people in the kingdom? Doing it to get rewards? And others are in the dark?
 
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Using mammon to make friends with people in the kingdom? Doing it to get rewards? And others are in the dark?
9 And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth, so that when it fails they may receive you into the eternal dwellings.
Luke 16:9
 
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RaymondG

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9 And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth, so that when it fails they may receive you into the eternal dwellings.
Luke 16:9
Don't leave out the next verse. He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much, and he that is unjust in least is unjust also in much.

How much you have doesnt change who you are. Your faithfulness has nothing to do with how much you have.

You can't say someone is unjust because that have much or just because they have the least.
 
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claninja

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Don't leave out the next verse. He that is faith in that which is least is faithful also in much, and he that is unjust in least is unjust also in much.

How much you have doesnt change who you are. Your faithfulness has nothing to do with how much you have.

You can't say someone is unjust because that have much or just because they have the least.
I wasn’t trying to make a point, I was just trying to show that the wordkeeper was using the parable of the shrew manager. It appeared by your reply that you didn’t know what wordkeeper was talking about
 
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RaymondG

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I wasn’t trying to make a point, I was just trying to show that the wordkeeper was using the parable of the shrew manager. It appeared by your reply that you didn’t know what wordkeeper was talking about
The wordkeeper's reply was to explain why people didn't know what I was talking about. But we are getting side tracked. The point of this thread to make people realize that if you are rich, you are carnal minded and worldly and maybe bound for hell. And if you are poor, you are blessed and doing the right thing. All the other talk moves us away from the message. What do you have to say about this message?
 
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This is a teaching from our catechism. It includes a paragraph quoting Cardinal John Henry Newman:

1723
The beatitude [happiness] we are promised confronts us with decisive moral choices. It invites us to purify our hearts of bad instincts and to seek the love of God above all else. It teaches us that true happiness is not found in riches or well-being, in human fame or power, or in any human achievement - however beneficial it may be - such as science, technology, and art, or indeed in any creature, but in God alone, the source of every good and of all love:

All bow down before wealth. Wealth is that to which the multitude of men pay an instinctive homage. They measure happiness by wealth; and by wealth they measure respectability. . . . It is a homage resulting from a profound faith . . . that with wealth he may do all things. Wealth is one idol of the day and notoriety is a second. . . . Notoriety, or the making of a noise in the world - it may be called "newspaper fame" - has come to be considered a great good in itself, and a ground of veneration.
 
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