6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

[Bible Highlighter]

What time of year did the wedding at Cana occur? Just before Passover, late Mar, early Apr.. The grape harvest in Israel is in Jul/Aug. With no refrigeration how would the Israelites have kept fresh grape juice for 8-9 months? They could not. The "wine" they had was fermented wine not fresh grape juice.

They drank wine type #2 and Jesus made wine type #3. See post #20 for my mention of the three types of wines mentioned in the Bible.

 

[disciple1]

Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):

If Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death). Anyways, here are 6 reasons in the Bible that make it absolutely clear that Jesus could not have made intoxicating wine.

#1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine that He made.
Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a byproduct of death and not life. This is why Christ made grape juice because it was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."(Deuteronomy 32:14).

#2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

#3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advice or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

#4. Warnings against Alcohol.
Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

#5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober.
Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

#6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21 KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.

Conclusion:
Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!

John chapter 2 verse 10
and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."

Sounds like real wine to me.


1 Timothy chapter 5 verse 23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

Nowhere does it say grape juice.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You distort the Bible to match your distorted sensibilities. John 2:10 does say they were drunk. And, Jesus made more alcohol. Genesis 1:1 (KJV).

John 2:10 says they drank wine, not that they were drunk on wine.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Barney]

How many people go the pub, drink alcohol, then are given a non alcoholic drink and think it is better than what they have previously consumed?

The Jesus-didn't-drink-wine crowd act like clowns. The idea of adults partying with grape juice is laughable. The idea of serving grape juice after alcohol is laughable. The idea of someone saying that later served grape juice is the better wine is laughable. Another laughable thing is, many anti-wine people are hypocrites enough to know why the good wine would be served first.

Hypocrites? Sorry, I mean their drinking experiences before they were "saved".... not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And notice that there's plenty wrong with the "six reasons" discussed in the OP. For instance:

In point 5, we see



In fact, it does NOT say that they were drunk. It says that they had drunk of the wine.

Also,



As most people know, a higher alcoholic content is NOT what causes a wine to be judged to be better wine. I assume that this doesn't need further elaboration.

No. Read it again. It says,

“And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10) (KJV).

It says they have “...well drunk...” of the good wine, and the worse (tasting) wine is served last. So if they were “...well drunk...” of the good wine, that means that they were at least tipsy or drunk before Jesus made even more supposedly intoxicating wine.
‭

 

[Rubiks]

I'm not aware of any translation that says "grape juice" instead of wine.

Jesus drank wine. get over it.

 

[Barney]

John 2:10 says they drank wine, not that they were drunk on wine.

-CryptoLutheran

It's so common for people to practice illiteracy and ignorance to make the Bible say something it does't say. The Greek word means "drunk", which is essentially what every translation says. Face it. Also, no one would say the good wine is usually served first unless the people were already drunk. A person has to be drunk before not caring how good the wine is.

 

[Radagast]

I believe that those days for the most part they drank real wine although just like today the drunks should abstain.

The Greek word for "wine" gets used so much that there's no doubt what it means.

They generally mixed the wine with water, though (as 1 Timothy 5:23 mentions), so what they were drinking typically had the strength of light beer.

At parties like the one at Cana, the master of ceremonies generally controlled the strength of the mix, adding more wine if people were too quiet, and more water if they were getting too drunk.

 

[Radagast]

It's so common for people to practice illiteracy and ignorance to make the Bible say something it does't say. The Greek word means "drunk", which is essentially what every translation says. Face it. Also, no one would say the good wine is usually served first unless the people were already drunk. A person has to be drunk before not caring how good the wine is.

John 2:10 certainly indicates that people were at least "tipsy." It's not clear that they had had enough wine to be "drunk." The Greek word has a wider range of meanings than the various English words.

 

[Devin P]

The Bible mentions that there are three types of wines.

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).​

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses (Wine Type #2):

Revelation 14:10 says,
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb." (cf. Psalms 75:8).

1 Timothy 5:23 (NASB) says,
"No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments."

Proverbs 9:2 (NLT) says,
"She has prepared a great banquet, mixed the wines, and set the table."

Proverbs 23:31 - "Do not look at wine when it is red."

John 19:34 (Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood - See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 NIV says,
“Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.”​

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to use it.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine (for the times).

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.​

Dictionary.com, older dictionaries, a Welch’s grape juice ad, and old historical documents refer to grape as wine, too. Even the Bible does, too. For what exists inside the cluster of the grape according to the Bible? New wine. Alcohol is not present inside the cluster of grapes unless they are crushed and they ferment.



Not true. There were ancient ways to preserve and make fresh grape juice according to historical documents. They boiled it or they made it into a paste and stored it in jars in cool temperatures, such as placing it under water. Welch’s was the first person to perfect the idea and popularize it or to turn it into a profitable enterprise.

So would this then make all stronger alcoholic beverages sinful?

 

[DamianWarS]

Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):

If Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death). Anyways, here are 6 reasons in the Bible that make it absolutely clear that Jesus could not have made intoxicating wine.

#1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine that He made.
Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a byproduct of death and not life. This is why Christ made grape juice because it was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."(Deuteronomy 32:14).

#2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

#3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advice or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

#4. Warnings against Alcohol.
Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

#5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober.
Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

#6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21 KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.

Conclusion:
Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!

plus everyone was drunk so they wouldn't have known the difference

 

[CodyFaith]

Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Drinking in most cases is not sin, drunkeness is always sin.

When scripture says wine - it always means wine, not juice.

 

[GingerBeer]

If Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death).

Jesus did make water into alcohol containing wine and it does no good to pretend otherwise. If drinking offends some okay then do not drink if it offends but don't try to make a personal preference into a commandment from God - that's legalism and abuse.

 

[GUANO]

It was very dangerous in ancient times to drink non alcoholic wine because of bacteria that causes diahreah which is very dangerous. That bacteria grows very quickly in warm climates. The climate also causes the juice to become spoiled in less than an hour if not properly fermented. Just my thoughts.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's so common for people to practice illiteracy and ignorance to make the Bible say something it does't say. The Greek word means "drunk", which is essentially what every translation says. Face it. Also, no one would say the good wine is usually served first unless the people were already drunk. A person has to be drunk before not caring how good the wine is.

"and said to him, 'Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now.'" (NRSV)

"and told him, 'Everyone sets out the fine wine first, then, after people have drunk freely, the inferior. But you have kept the fine wine until now.'" (HCSB)

"and said to him, 'Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.'" (ESV)

When I had originally looked up the passage it was a translation such as the HCSB or ESV, which reads as having drunk, not getting drunk.

Looking up the Greek μεθυσθῶσιν, yes it seems to mean drinking to the point of intoxication. But let us also note that the passage provides this in the hypothetical, that ordinarily one serves good wine first, then after people have become intoxicated one brings out the cheap wine. So as Radagast said, it does probably indicate the likelihood that the party guests had reached some level of inebriation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SeventyOne]

Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):

If Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death). Anyways, here are 6 reasons in the Bible that make it absolutely clear that Jesus could not have made intoxicating wine.

#1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine that He made.
Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a byproduct of death and not life. This is why Christ made grape juice because it was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."(Deuteronomy 32:14).

#2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

#3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advice or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

#4. Warnings against Alcohol.
Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

#5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober.
Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

#6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21 KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.

Conclusion:
Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!

This is why I'll typically stick to only vodka or whiskey.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So would this then make all stronger alcoholic beverages sinful?

In Deuteronomy the Israelites are commanded to bring their goods to Jerusalem, or take money and purchase goods, among these things they are instructed to purchase includes strong drink and wine. "Strong drink" likely refers to a fairly strong beer-like drink made from barley or other grains. Beer was widespread and popular throughout the ancient near east from Sumeria to Egypt.

However ancient people didn't have distilled spirits because distillation is a rather recent technology.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Radagast]

It was very dangerous in ancient times to drink non alcoholic wine because of bacteria that causes diahreah which is very dangerous.

Even the water could be dangerous. That, I think, is what 1 Timothy 5:23 is about -- I believe Paul is telling Timothy to mix a little wine into his drinking water to kill the germs.

 

[Devin P]

In Deuteronomy the Israelites are commanded to bring their goods to Jerusalem, or take money and purchase goods, among these things they are instructed to purchase includes strong drink and wine. "Strong drink" likely refers to a fairly strong beer-like drink made from barley or other grains. Beer was widespread and popular throughout the ancient near east from Sumeria to Egypt.

However ancient people didn't have distilled spirits because distillation is a rather recent technology.

-CryptoLutheran

They had a few different types of alcohols, but all I'm saying is that it's not a sin to drink alcohol. It's a sin to abuse it to the point that you're getting habitually drunk. Drunkenness is a sin as well, but Noah became drunk after the flood. He's still saved, it's not as if he constantly became drunk.

It'd be like a friend making homemade moonshine, but you didn't know how strong it was, so you cautiously drank a bit of it, but drank too much, and became drunk accidentally. I don't believe that you'd be guilty of the same sin as habitual drunkenness, because you didn't intend on that outcome. You would then just adjust to the situation, and if you drank of that drink again, you'd be much more cautious of it. This often happens when people make their own wines, it's stronger than imagined, and can lead to over intoxication. Not deadly, but enough to become drunk when they didn't expect to be.

I believe that is what happened to Noah, but because it's not directly described in the bible, no one can be certain. I'd imagine such a godly man as Noah wouldn't of intentionally gotten so drunk that he passed out in his tent to the extent that he did. He had to wait the appropriate amount of years before he could eat of the vine, and then - after waiting - had just made the wine, so I imagine it was just stronger than he intended it to have been.

 

[Der Alte]

The Bible mentions that there are three types of wines.

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).​

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

What you "believe" is not evidence of anything. What would be most helpful if you would provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence for the claims and assertions you have made.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses (Wine Type #2):

Revelation 14:10 says,
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb." (cf. Psalms 75:8).​

​

This vs. is an argument against watered down wine rather than for it. The "wine" of God's wrath will not be watered down.

1 Timothy 5:23 (NASB) says,
"No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments."

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There is no Greek word in this verse which could be translated "exclusively." This appears to be interjected theology.

Proverbs 9:2 (NLT) says,
"She has prepared a great banquet, mixed the wines, and set the table."
Proverbs 23:31 - "Do not look at wine when it is red."
John 19:34 (Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood - See Matthew 26:27-29).
Isaiah 1:22 NIV says,
“Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.”

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Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.
How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry
If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to use it.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine (for the times).

Another verse which speaks against mixing wine with water rather than supporting it.

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

You make a number of assertions but provide no evidence to support them.

Not true. There were ancient ways to preserve and make fresh grape juice according to historical documents. They boiled it or they made it into a paste and stored it in jars in cool temperatures, such as placing it under water. Welch’s was the first person to perfect the idea and popularize it or to turn it into a profitable enterprise

Can you provide some of these historical documents for ancient ways to preserve and make fresh grape juice? Several years ago my wife bought a large bottle of Welch's grape juice. She passed away and the grape juice stayed in my refrigerator for several months. . One day I happened to notice it and decide to drink it. When I twisted the cap off there was an audible "poong." The juice had fermented into wine all by itself.