To the evolution deniers

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Subduction Zone

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As I mentioned posts ago. You rely purely on the material universe to determine your belief system. Which is incomplete.

If you want to claim that there is something else once again the burden of proof is upon you.

The point I made was with an uncreated Creator who is active in His creation, such naturalistic conundrums you pose to theists are not limiting on the supernatural.

Once again, if you want to claim that the burden of proof is upon you.

You chose to lash out with insults and opinion. That's fine if you want to do such. But it is clear you are trying to use insults and bullying techniques to ignore the possibilities of Divine intervention in the actual affairs of mankind.

Where have I insulted you? I have merely corrected you. And no, I do not give "opinions". I can support my claims, something that you do not appear to be able to do.

And once again if anything you are making false claims about me, I am not "bullying" I am merely trying to help you get over your misconceptions. It appears that you are rather insecure, perhaps you know that you are wrong deep down inside. I notice that you have avoided discussing the topics that would help you to understand better and avoided supporting your many claims.
As a Christian, I am not surprised with your approach. In fact most Christians know what it used to be like.


I used to be a Christian too. That is why I can see the errors of your ways, though I never believed in a lying God. Worldwide most Christians accept that Genesis is not to be read literally.
 
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Speedwell

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I was responding to SZ claiming most Christians write off Genesis as allegory.
So the term was being used carelessly, but not by you. Excuse my pedantry.
 
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Speedwell

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They do. Why do you think that they don't?
Because we don't, that's why. There are many more ways to take Genesis than just literal history or allegory. But it's not all that important a point unless it is an accusation being made by a creationist. I'm sure we agree that literal history is by far the least likely interpretation.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Because we don't, that's why. There are many more ways to take Genesis than just literal history or allegory.


I usually don't refer to dictionaries, but why not:

Definition of ALLEGORY

:the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence

It seems to be a good general term that indicates the varied reasons for Genesis. By the way, that is not "writing off Genesis". In fact by using it as a teaching tool it keeps it in the spirit of 2 Timothy 3: 16-17

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3:16-17 - New International Version

I can see it as a morality tale or other teaching tool, my objection is with those that try to claim it is literally true.
 
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Speedwell

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I usually don't refer to dictionaries, but why not:

Definition of ALLEGORY

:the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence

It seems to be a good general term that indicates the varied reasons for Genesis. By the way, that is not "writing off Genesis". In fact by using it as a teaching tool it keeps it in the spirit of 2 Timothy 3: 16-17

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3:16-17 - New International Version

I can see it as a morality tale or other teaching tool, my objection is with those that try to claim it is literally true.
Except that many of us see the "seven-day" story of Gen 1 as hymnody and the "garden" story of Gen 2 as an etiology, neither one of which is allegory, strictly speaking. Then, there are a variety of historiographical genres, which would allow such a classification of the Noah story--assuming it was distantly based on the same flood that gave rise to the Gilgamesh account, or some other prehistoric catastrophe. Off the top of my head, the first Genesis story which I would call a clear-cut allegory is the Tower of Babel story.
 
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redleghunter

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No, not really. The Bible is no more reliable in such matters than any other "holy" book. You need to find a valid source if you want to convince people.
How much have you delved into the manuscript evidence of ancient texts?

For example, how much historical credence do you give for a work like Caesar's Gallic Wars?
 
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Speedwell

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How much have you delved into the manuscript evidence of ancient texts?

For example, how much historical credence do you give for a work like Caesar's Gallic Wars?
I don't believe that there are any other ancient texts for which the claim of literal inerrancy is made.
 
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Subduction Zone

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How much have you delved into the manuscript evidence of ancient texts?

For example, how much historical credence do you give for a work like Caesar's Gallic Wars?

The fact that some of the Bible is history does not give any credibility at all to the obviously false parts of the Bible. The Bible is a book that mixes history and myth. We know the sources for some of the myths, for example Speedwell mentioned the Epic of Gilgamesh, the myth that was rewritten to become Noah's Ark. That story could have been based upon an actual local flood, just the flood of course:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | NCSE
 
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redleghunter

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I don't believe that there are any other ancient texts for which the claim of literal inerrancy is made.
How are you defining the literal in literal inerrancy? Chicago statement?

Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy

The term "inerrancy" aside, all creedal Christian churches proclaim Sacred Scriptures as the infallible written word of God.
 
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redleghunter

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The fact that some of the Bible is history does not give any credibility at all to the obviously false parts of the Bible. The Bible is a book that mixes history and myth. We know the sources for some of the myths, for example Speedwell mentioned the Epic of Gilgamesh, the myth that was rewritten to become Noah's Ark. That story could have been based upon an actual local flood, just the flood of course:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | NCSE
"Obviously false" is an assertion.
 
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mark kennedy

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As this is not a debate forum I'm not going to try to defend the theory of evolution. I'm not even educated enough to do so. But I do have two questions for those of you who deny evolution.

Question 1


Why is evolution universally accepted among biologists?

You mean the philosophy of natural history known as Darwinism, no one is denying evolution.

a) All biologists from all nations are conspiring together to advance the lie of evolution for some reason, presumably under the influence of Satan.

b) All biologists from all nations are mistaken, but are not knowingly lying or under Satanic influence. Somehow, the idea of evolution became popular and the scientific community is unable to see that which is obvious to uneducated laymen.

c) Other (please explain).

Anything other then God as cause.

Question 2
If you accept that evolution is false despite being universally accepted among biologists, why accept the idea that the earth is a sphere? Universal acceptance of this notion should be irrelevant, and the idea of a spherical earth is counter-intuitive. Also, a plain reading of the Bible, together with knowledge of ancient Hebrew cosmology, strongly indicates a flat earth, as shown below. Why do you not believe in a flat earth? If you do believe in a flat earth, please just say so.

Google "ancient hebrew model of earth" to see many images like this.

Got nothing to do with it.
 
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Subduction Zone

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"Obviously false" is an assertion.

Actually it is an observation.

You seem to think that Genesis can be read literally. There are many different interpretations that Christians have of the Noah's Ark myth. Which one do you have? And please don't say "the one in the Bible". I have seen Christians range from claiming that there was an entirely different Earth, a flat one even before the flood, to worldwide flood beliefs, to local ones, to no belief in the flood at all. A literal flood is easily debunked.
 
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