What Jesus meant in Matthew 5:48

[com7fy8]

So, it can be a clever trick to get people to commit to the idea that a child of God can not sin, at all . . . so that then the trickery can lead the person to throw out the book of Revelation and the letter to the Galatians, because they contradict how the person understands not being able to sin.

What trickery teaches one not to sin?

It depends on what you mean by not sinning

If you have the truth...it stands on its own....no need to try to put other teachings down thereby leaving only yours as an option.

true

 

[RaymondG]

Can you locate the verse (two or three--because multiple witnesses are necessary to prove truth) where it says "perfect means without sin?" What verse anywhere in scripture suggests that one is "perfect" only when one is without sin?

Even if I wrote a verse that I felt pointed this out, It would be very unlikely that you would view it the same. I find the art of searching to bible to find what I believe in it, fruitless. The things of the spirit doesn't make sense to my carnal mind.

Im ok with you believing that you cant live without sinning until you find out that you can.

 

[RaymondG]

The Bible speaks of love which is perfect. And the context of the quoted scripture is how our Father is loving . . . perfect in how He loves. So, the definition which Jesus means has to do with how God in His love is perfect, and Jesus tells us to be perfect also in how we love.

So, I am talking about what are not different subjects, and I find that Jesus is not talking about being without sinning, but how to become perfectly loving like God is.

Of course, as we grow in how God has us loving, our sinning becomes more and more reduced.

I understand your points....Im just trying to understand why you quoted me as to say that we are saying something different.... Im trying to understand the difference.

You say Jesus said to be perfectly Loving like God. Lets say that someone reached the height of this command....and they are perfectly loving...like God (lets just assume this is possible for the sake of less argument) Can you give me a "Sin" that this person could commit?

 

[com7fy8]

You say Jesus said to be perfectly Loving like God.

God wants us to become perfect like He is in love and how He loves, but in this life, I understand and mean, we are going to always be in the process of correction in this direction. And so, we always will still be capable of sinning. . . somehow. I do not mean that in this life Jesus knows we can become perfectly loving like God.

And I think we have support for the fact that we can still sin, because in Ephesians 4:32 our Apostle Paul says for us to forgive one another >

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

God does not tell us to forgive each other for what is not a sin, I would say

Lets say that someone reached the height of this command....and they are perfectly loving...like God (lets just assume this is possible for the sake of less argument) Can you give me a "Sin" that this person could commit?

So, in this life, I do not understand that one will or can reach the height of this command. But what I would offer, sort of in answer to your question, if I understand you right, is >

As we grow in Jesus love, there are the more obvious sins which we do stop doing. But then we discover things we did not know are sins. And so we go on to seeing how we need correction which at first we did not know we need.

In my case, for example, I have sinned against love, by expecting attention and recognition for being a teacher and preacher. I did not have a clue that I was wrong, like this.

Also, I have been able to only use people, instead of first personally caring for each and every person.

So, as I grew in love, I more and more realized what is anti-love. And so now what I consider to be sinning has developed. I might stop some number of more obvious sins, but then the standards get higher, I guess you might say

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Matthew 5:48 reads:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."


So what exactly does Jesus mean by "Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."? does this mean we can achieve perfection in this life? Does this mean we can be sinless and completely perfect in this life? That we should strive for perfection? No, what Jesus meant by "Be perfect" was he was telling his listeners the requirements to get into heaven. To get into heaven we have to be perfect and sinless. However, this is an impossibility in our life. You see, when we are born again and washed by the holy spirit our spirits are made sinless and enter heaven. This is not any of our doing it is the work of God. Then when our physical bodies die we are taken to be with our spirits and Jesus in heaven while our physical bodies sleep in the ground awaiting the resurrection. When Jesus returns he will then raise our bodies perfect, sinless and without blemish and we will finally be rid of the sin curse. But, to achieve sinless perfection in this life is an impossibility when Jesus said "Be perfect" he meant the afterlife. So what do you think? Discuss.

Literally speak in the word perfect means to be 'Complete', 'Finished'. And in the context of what Jesus was speaking on He was saying that just as God is kind to the just and unjust so should we. That's what I got from it.

 

[RaymondG]

So, in this life, I do not understand that one will or can reach the height of this command.

Ok so this is where the confusion lies. You are speaking from the position of this command not being fulfilled. And I am answering from the position of this command being fulfilled. Whether or not it can be, was not the question of the OP. Of course it is true that one is a sinner before this command is fulfilled in them. Maybe it would be a good thread to start concerning all the commands Jesus/God gave that we arent expected to fulfill in this life.....i hope the list doesnt only include the commands that one, through logical reasoning, deduces that they can complete...therefore no one will be able to and no one should attempt to try.

 

[toLiJC]

Matthew 5:48 reads:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."


So what exactly does Jesus mean by "Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."? does this mean we can achieve perfection in this life? Does this mean we can be sinless and completely perfect in this life? That we should strive for perfection? No, what Jesus meant by "Be perfect" was he was telling his listeners the requirements to get into heaven. To get into heaven we have to be perfect and sinless. However, this is an impossibility in our life. You see, when we are born again and washed by the holy spirit our spirits are made sinless and enter heaven. This is not any of our doing it is the work of God. Then when our physical bodies die we are taken to be with our spirits and Jesus in heaven while our physical bodies sleep in the ground awaiting the resurrection. When Jesus returns he will then raise our bodies perfect, sinless and without blemish and we will finally be rid of the sin curse. But, to achieve sinless perfection in this life is an impossibility when Jesus said "Be perfect" he meant the afterlife. So what do you think? Discuss.

in Matthew 5:43-48 He talks about spiritual servants/religious worshipers having to work for overall salvation in the true God as He Himself does it righteously, i.e. not only for salvation of good and of religious people but also for salvation of bad and irreligious ones, because, as Jesus says there, He causes there to be grace not only for the good ones but also for the bad ones, as well as purification not only for the religious ones but also for the irreligious ones - He is good to all, and His spiritual servants/religious worshipers should also be perfectly good like Him

Blessings

 

[com7fy8]

And I am answering from the position of this command being fulfilled.

I mean that now in Jesus we are being processed by God more and more to all that Jesus means. We are not staying in sin, but God is changing us, growing us in His love. Ones say we are "a work in progress", which I understand our Apostle Paul means by Philippians 1:6.

So, we are not all the way one way, in sin, or all the way in the other, of being perfectly resurrected like Jesus. But God is now working.

And so, we are not sinners, by identity, but we are children of God who are growing though not perfect the way we can be. But how we are, in this love, is so better than we used to be. And this love in us is effecting us, more and more, to be how God is able to have us become

 

[One Of The Elect]

Matthew 5:48 reads:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."


So what exactly does Jesus mean by "Be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect."? does this mean we can achieve perfection in this life? Does this mean we can be sinless and completely perfect in this life? That we should strive for perfection? No, what Jesus meant by "Be perfect" was he was telling his listeners the requirements to get into heaven. To get into heaven we have to be perfect and sinless. However, this is an impossibility in our life. You see, when we are born again and washed by the holy spirit our spirits are made sinless and enter heaven. This is not any of our doing it is the work of God. Then when our physical bodies die we are taken to be with our spirits and Jesus in heaven while our physical bodies sleep in the ground awaiting the resurrection. When Jesus returns he will then raise our bodies perfect, sinless and without blemish and we will finally be rid of the sin curse. But, to achieve sinless perfection in this life is an impossibility when Jesus said "Be perfect" he meant the afterlife. So what do you think? Discuss.

False! It is what it is , His words are plain and clear. "Be thou perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect".
You are interpreting as your fallen nature desires, as to make others believe what you say, not what Christ said. The only truth you have conveyed in your statement is " ONLY THROUGH GOD IS THIS POSSIBLE" . This is true , for it is only through grace we are saved. You omit free will. Which is our choice in faith , to follow Christ' way , which makes us perfect.

1John 3:2-3 Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we will be, but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And every one who thus hopes in Him PURIFIES himself as He is pure.
1John 3:4-10, Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. NO ONE WHO ABIDES IN HIM SINS; no one who sins has either seen Him or known Him. Little children , let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as He is righteous. He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the work of the devil. NO ONE BORN of GOD COMMITS SIN; for GOD"S NATURE ABIDES IN HIM, and he can not sin because he is born of God. By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil; whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother.

I will also submit this scriptural truth of John to support- THE SINLESS NATURE OF MARY MOTHER OF OUR LORD! PRAISE BE TO GOD!!!! The Protestant fathers LOOSE!

 

[RaymondG]

I mean that now in Jesus we are being processed by God more and more to all that Jesus means. We are not staying in sin, but God is changing us, growing us in His love. Ones say we are "a work in progress", which I understand our Apostle Paul means by Philippians 1:6.

So, we are not all the way one way, in sin, or all the way in the other, of being perfectly resurrected like Jesus. But God is now working.

And so, we are not sinners, by identity, but we are children of God who are growing though not perfect the way we can be. But how we are, in this love, is so better than we used to be. And this love in us is effecting us, more and more, to be how God is able to have us become

When I say sinners, I mean "one who sins" not a made up title. But you have explained yourself well. It would have been good if Jesus did the same. He said Be ye Perfect! When he should have said "Let God work on you....but He will never be finished."

He also Said a few times " Go and sin no more" When he should have said : "Go, and as God works on you, you will sin less and less, and that will be enough."

Good thing we have interpreters.....else we'd have a lot of people believing that it was possible to not sin.

The only question now is, Do I believe your interpretation, Or keep the Word as is? Going along believing that it is not possible to be perfect or to not sin..therefore i shouldn't feel surprised when i do....is much easier....So i guess we have a winner.

 

[SkyWriting]

To be perfect seems to mean without sin. And Yes, this is a commandment for now, as there is no repentance once in the grave.

How is it that Jesus visited Hell?

 

[SkyWriting]

When I say sinners, I mean "one who sins" not a made up title. But you have explained yourself well. It would have been good if Jesus did the same. He said Be ye Perfect! When he should have said "Let God work on you....but He will never be finished."

But so many of us do think we are perfect. That's what Jesus meant,
that its important to think we are flawless.

 

[RaymondG]

How is it that Jesus visited Hell?

How is it that "Jesus visited hell" supports or negates what I stated?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I will also submit this scriptural truth of John to support- The sinless nature .....!

ooops..... sorry.... back to the drawing board.... (back to Scripture; apart from and opposed to many traditions of men) ....

 

[RaymondG]

But so many of us do think we are perfect. That's what Jesus meant,
that its important to think we are flawless.

Humble is the way. I dont know too many spiritual people who think they are perfect..... That being said....Believe that you are perfect and Be perfect are two different commands, IMO.

 

[SkyWriting]

How is it that "Jesus visited hell" supports or negates what I stated?

By what mechanism did jesus visit Hell, then get to leave? Is that option not ours to follow? Are we not allowed to follow Jesus?

 

[One Of The Elect]

ooops..... sorry.... back to the drawing board.... (back to Scripture; apart from and opposed to many traditions of men) ....

What ever that means outside the kingdom of heaven??????

 

[RaymondG]

By what mechanism did jesus visit Hell, then get to leave? Is that option not ours to follow? Are we not allowed to follow Jesus?

I think I get what you are saying. Since there is no repentance in the grave, it would have been pointless for Jesus to have gone there right? That would depend on where or what you believe Hell is? For that, it is best to start from the creation. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth. Can you tell me When Hell was created?

 

[1stcenturylady]

To be perfect:

2 Peter 1:5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[One Of The Elect]

It depends on what you mean by not sinning true

No trickery in Yeshua's words nor in St. John's words. What are you saying about our Lord and His apostle?